import 4.code.options;
import 4.code.about;

class Header{

public void title(){

String fullTitle = "/k/ - Weapons";
}

public void menu();

public void board();

public void goToBottom();

public void refresh(a);

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class Thread extends Board{
public void EmptyTitle(OP Anonymous){

String fullTitle = "EmptyTitle";
int postNumber = "38516823";
String image = "2m5crb3t1k311.jpg";
String date = "07/10/18(Tue)09:13:26";
String comment = "What is the US military's opinion on the Vietnam war? Any current or former member care to share?";

}
public void comments(){
if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38516836 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)09:16:10")

">>38516823
Ken burns Vietnam doc is out on Netflix. Pretty good."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38516844 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)09:17:45")

">Communists always lose, USA USA USA
>Me:
pic related"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38516910 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)09:33:51")

">>38516836
I was surprised by the amount of combat footage it had. Pretty good series"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38516927 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)09:37:03")

">>38516823
Vietnam War was won. South Vietnam lost two years later."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38516950 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)09:41:48")

"all we had to do is bomb more gooks! if we would have bombed exactly 392 more gooks the Vietcong would have surrendered. But the goddamned hippies and the jewish conspiracy got in the way. They made us lose.";


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38516966 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)09:44:29" && image=="1531173114009.jpg")

">>38516844
Are you alright anon?"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517260 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)10:38:53")

">>38516823
Has the best soundtrack of any war

Otherwise this >>38516927. The North played the American political system very well, but the NVA/Viet Cong couldn't into combat. In any other war, the Tet offensive would be seen as a disaster, with North Vietnamese casualties outnumbering Allied casualties by a about 4:1, and with no strategic ground gained. Tet is just an example, but that is the story for the war as a whole"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517287 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)10:43:22")

">>38517260
Wrong.
If you beat up the guy fucking your wife but he just waits till you go to work to run off with your wife you still lose your wife. Vietnam just waited for the US' shitty bipolar political system to fuck itself over. The argument holds about as much water as when commies say the USSR didn't lose the cold war it just withdrew and democratically ended communism. It's a fucking cop out. We lost that war, we won the cold war."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517321 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)10:49:41")

">>38516823
Throughout the war we.accomplished every goal we set ourselves, then communists and hippies forced us to leave, then South Vietnam crumbled."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517341 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)10:52:39" && image=="1529594760696.jpg")

">>38517287
>we won the cold war"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517420 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)11:01:57")

">>38517287
It's more like beating the guy fucking your coworker''s wife then having said guy beat up your coworker two years later."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517432 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)11:03:38")

">>38516927
>Vietnam War was won.
Jesus Christ shut up with this garbage. Everyone's laughing at you"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517743 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)11:39:39" && image=="gvv0lhm.jpg")

"I wrote this a while ago. Source: military intelligence analyst/contractor with experience in SOF and Iraq/Afg.";


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517749 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)11:40:39")

">>38517743

Quality a shit. Sorry."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517772 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)11:43:40")

"Had a CW5 in my brigade who had actually flown Cobras in Vietnam who was adamant that the US had basically won after Tet as the Vietcong was virtually destroyed afterwards";


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517907 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)11:59:39")

">>38517432
What's the title of that book? Can't make it out."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517910 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)11:59:47")

">>38517772
Well, kinda of. The Vietcong got assfucked into the ground after the Tet, but meanwhile, back at home, the Soviet infiltrated media painted another picture and convinced the population that Tet was a major defeat for US forces."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517914 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)12:00:45")

">>38517907
>>38517749
Whoops - question meant for this anon."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38517945 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)12:05:41" && image=="60FE7D08-BB0F-44D4-89B2-B275C3FD6ABB.jpg")

">>38516823

>current or former member
>current

Current member of the Vietnam war? Literally what?"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38518056 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)12:20:02")

">>38516844
We killed more of them and only pulled out because the people of America didn't want to fight anymore"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38518079 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)12:22:32" && image=="mh0dqwowij1r3bqvso1_400.gif")

">>38517432
>only one to reply that it's a false notion
>everyone is laughing at you
>only one"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38518315 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)12:50:35")

">>38517914

War Comes To Long An"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38518323 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)12:51:33")

"do soldiers take "classes" that are unrelated to their training? like history?";


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38518358 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)12:54:54")

">>38516927
This is true.
>>38517432
Somebody thinks the Tet Offensive and the fall of Saigon happened in the same week."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38518487 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)13:11:52")

">>38516844
>commies get to exist and attempt their utopia
>everything that goes with that
I'm sure they're the real winners"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38518701 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)13:40:55" && image=="1501325384208.png")

">>38516927
The delusional lengths people will go to."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38518719 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)13:42:56")

"Honestly I use it as a “Boomer Participation Trophy” when boomers get uppity about “snowflakes”";


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38518756 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)13:46:42")

">>38516823
ROE and media prevent us from killing motherfuckers that need to be wiped off the earth, or even using the threat of that total violence to force them to capitulate."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519119 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)14:34:55")

">>38516950
Unironically true though. Had the bombings been targeting nva leadership or at the very least had the openings left by the bombings been exploited, the nva would have had no choice but to surrender. They had said themselves that they were nearly at their breaking point when the us decided to leave. The reason they were able and willing to hold out for so long, however, was because the north viet leadership realized the us was unwilling to remove their regime to end the war and that all they needed to do was not give in"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519165 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)14:40:07")

">>38518079
Not him but I am sitting in a room with 9 other guys, and we are all laughing at you."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519743 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)15:40:30")

">>38518756
>>38519119
If the U.S. had gone any harder the Chinese and the Soviets would have sent troops in en masse. That, plus a fuckload of AA guns in Hanoi is why they never pushed deep into North Vietnam."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519842 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)15:52:35" && image=="VCYes.jpg")

">>38516823
>this kills the American"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519921 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:02:18")

"Vietnam is unironically one of our most important allies today. They're over it despite having like half of their country either ruined forever by agent orange or uninhabitable due to unexploded ordnance. We should get over it too.";


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519925 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:02:58" && image=="1530589891393.jpg")

"As someone who is military and studied it as parr of a profession.

We lost, because we failed to establish our objectives, which was a total end to communist Vietnam's aggression into southern territory to reunite them.

It was a total failure of presidential leadership and media control. We allowed the biggest military blunder (tet offensive) of the north to become their biggest political victory because we couldnt control the fucking news anchors.

We also accidentally lead them into that blunder because of Johnson not willing to not only commit the forces needed to route the VC from the south in order to stabiloze the southern government, but his willingness to keep trying for peace talks (over 2000 attempts before the tet offensive) which gave the politiboro enough hubris to believe we were unwilling to fight.

They came to peace talks only to slow the fighting enough for a tactical advantage and then would only accept a peace aggreement if we completely abandoned the diem and suceeding RVN government to them and let the VC run loose until the DRVN (north) could take over properly.

It was a war that we should have either commited to completely before 63 or used Diem's dictatorial like actions as an excuse to get out of.

TLDR Johnson was a failure and by the time Nixon came in it was too late. Never let a dem run a war."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519927 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:02:59")

">>38519921
America doesn't need allies, we have Trump."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519939 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:04:20")

">>38517945
>The Vietnam war never ended [DO NOT RESEARCH]"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519955 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:05:55" && image=="1530411571732.gif")

">>38519921
Vietnam
Important ally.

What koolaid are you drinking? We were just barely having preparations for training partnerships when Trump came in and had only been trading for a few years.

Duck, march was the first time an American military ship docked in Vietnam since the war.

We are barely allies. Just open trade partners. If they are our allies, then Cuba, china and Russia are as well."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519961 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:06:30")

">>38519925
>If only we didn't let reporters report on the events on the ground, we would have won!

Kill yourself, authoritarian scum. Nixon was terrible, let the war go on for political purposes. Let's not pretend Iraq and Afghanistan weren't complete fuck-ups. Americans can't into war."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519977 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:07:40")

">>38518056
Sounds like the north just wanted to win more buddy"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519991 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:09:35")

"Vet here.
Don't care."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38519999 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:10:51")

">>38516927
By that logic the USSR won Afghanistan."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520002 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:11:09")

">>38518056
>muh K/D
The goal was too keep South Vietnam from falling to the reds which clearly failed.

>inb4 muh mcdonalds in vietnam"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520003 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:11:11")

">>38519999
Chekd"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520008 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:11:50")

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dereliction_of_Duty_(book)

This book might interest you.

A colonel in the US Army in the late 90s read up on the Vietnam War and concluded that the military was heavily at fault for losing it, which was interesting because that's a very unpopular opinion to have in the military.

Somehow, he made general anyway, and eventually got hired as National Security Adviser for Trump."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520029 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:15:16" && image=="1530465405559m.jpg")

">>38519961
Go research the tet offensive fuckwit. They reported that the VC had a strength that couldn't be matched, even though the VC and NVA combined lost a large portion of their forces, most of prepositioned supplies, destroyed their own morale and alienated the southern populace from them, (according to the current governments own documents).

Which the CIA had found also and Westmoreland tried reporting. But the media went all "hurr Vietnam is unsinkable, they all hate us. We must sue for peace".

The north Vietnamese government was shit at winning the south over. But because of a fucking idiot president, who was deathly afraid of chinese nuclear retailiation in Korea and Japan, we never commited the strength we needed to destroy the north's politiboro and win."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520033 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:15:50")

"Vietnam is like looking out your window, and watching your little brother get in a fight with a bigger kid. He's losing, so, you go out there, and start beating the shit out of the big kid. You wail on his ass for what feels like hours and just knock the shit out of him. Your gf eventually comes along and scolds you for being such a brute, so you roll your eyes, pat your kid brother on the back and walk off. Once you make it to the curb, you turn around, looking at your quivering little brother watch the bully stand up.

The bully gets reday to throw a punch, and your kid brother falls to the ground crying don't hurt me. You sigh, and the bully goes on to tell people that he 'won the fight' with you and, because you're unpopular, people tend to accept this at face value and taunt you about it."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520050 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:18:13")

">>38520029
>goal is to protect the US
>invade North Vietnam
>half a million Chinese come screaming across the border
>nuclear war
>tens of millions of Americans die
>???????
>PROFIT"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520056 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:18:52")

">>38519999
kek"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520072 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:20:25")

">>38519961
>implying

Both the first and second gulf wars were pretty much the biggest blowouts in all of human history, wtf are you on about?

The US is extremely proficient at killing shit. Our vulnerability is internal politics and recent generations' unwillingness to do what is necessary to completely destroy a society then build a post-war ally government from the ground up, like Japan, because it's really expensive, it takes a long time, and foreign governments have wised up to the fact that our officials are vulnerable to pressure/personal gain/infiltration and our population is vulnerable to manipulation via mass media before we can actually complete any long term foreign policy goal."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520081 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:21:34")

">>38520050
>goal is to protect the US

This has not been a priority for the US military for the last 70 years."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520352 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:52:24" && image=="1531071975823.jpg")

">>38520050
Nuclear war would not have happened. By then the Soviets were pushing the Chinese into peace talks and even threatened to retaliate if the Chinese started a nuclear war.

Read into the marjory channels. Fucking N. Vietnamese were pissing everyone off and the Chinese while not wanting to look weak, was not willing to fuck themselves over over vietnam. Hell the two had minor clashes afterward until 1989.

The chinese would have probably commited comalbat troops and armor but would have kept from doing anything that would have spread the war further.

>>Learn to war guys.

>>Not everything cold war is gun shot = nukes 20 minutes later."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38520405 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)16:58:09")

">>38516836
fpbp

>>38516823
It was the original 20th century boondoggle. We were "over there" fighting commies so we wouldn't have to fight them here. Same empty rhetoric used to justify our incredible losses in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are unjust wars, pursued against public outcry and unconstitutionally funded. They were fought to make corporations rich, banks richer, and to give career politicians more power and prestige."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38521480 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)18:47:57")

">>38519743
>the so it's would have
Lol nah, not only were the Soviets already sending "advisors" anyway, but they did so to explicitly avoid direct conflict with US troops. They didn't help in Korea when the odds were less unfavorable and they wouldn't help in Vietnam where it would have been a real fucking problem for them... Especially against the hypothetical US without political optimism hamstringing a war effort. But hey, don't take my word for it. Ho Chi Minh said it himself"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38521492 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)18:48:52")

">>38516836
>>38516910
heard a lot about this series. mostly positive. i'll have to check it out"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38521511 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)18:50:34")

">>38519165
>on /k/
>sitting in your room with 9 other guys
i'll believe it"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38521655 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)19:05:36")

">>38516823
Vietnam was a shit show for more reasons than one can imagine, but the important talking points are as follows

>Vietnam was a colony of France and most of the later NVA gov felt a kinship with the American war of independence
>They petitioned for their own country as early as 1918 (Wilson refused to meet with Ho Chi Minh)
>The French spent most of the 40s/50s forcing us to help finance their war in Vietnam as part of their failed effort to reestablsh their colonies
>By the end of the 50s Vietnam has been split similarly to Korea with much of the same goals
>The US appointed a terrible southern leader who represented less than 10% of the population and was a Catholic
>That leader had a hilariously corrupt and terrible regime
>The ARVN never really gave much of a collective fuck about anything
>Throughout our time in the region we had no major goal/plan, but still managed to maintain a positive traditional military exchange during all major engagements
And for the big finale
>None of our military success meant shit because the war was unpopular with the locals, unpopular at home, and generally we were restricted from fully knocking out NV, which even if we did it wouldn't have solved the mass population being unhappy."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38521692 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)19:08:09")

">>38520405
>our incredible losses in Afghanistan and Iraq
Lost more troops in a single day than in both those was combined. Truly the measure of how dominant we've become."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38521705 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)19:10:02")

">>38519961
It's more about misrepresenting those events than not reporting them at all. For instance, reports and photos of Vietnamese running toward the American lines out of fear of the American bombing campaigns were in fact running from the north death squads."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38521987 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)19:38:20" && image=="158C431F-BD4D-4A64-A9A2-3D8A4611B332.jpg")

">>38521492
Too much bullshit about muh poor college marxists. Combat footage was amazing but that should have been 90% of it. Public school makes sure everyone already knows about muh brave boomers these days."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522031 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)19:41:50" && image=="1529192471356.jpg")

">French get ass kicked
>We step in and stomp NVA into the fucking ground
>Have to resort to funding guerrilla fighters to retaliate
>Guerrilla wars don't exactly have a win condition, just keep killing them as they come while trying the hearts and minds bullshit
>Next presidential election coming up soon
>80% disapproval rate for the war
>President hastily throws together peace treaty in hopes it will get him reelected
>Predictably fails
>NVA break peace and start butt fucking South Vietnamese again
>Newly elected Democrat government turns cheek and doesn't honor clause it return if this exact scenario happens
>We """lose""" the Vietnam war

There's your crash course"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522552 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)20:31:46")

">>38516823
>What is the US military's opinion on the Vietnam war? Any current or former member care to share?
Five major tactical failures:

1. The war was fought for body count as a metric for success, rather than ground taken and controlled. Had the war been fought to control all of South Vietnam, the only skirmishes would have taken place in Laos, Cambodia, or the DMZ.

2. Failure to shut down the Ho Chi Min trail. Laos and Cambodia didn't give a shit if we operated there, yet we failed to hit the Trail until Nixon was in office. Consequently every gook killed was replaced by two more from the North. We should have been hitting the Trail as soon as we became operationally aware of it.

3. Mining the maritime trade routes from China. We should have mined these trade routes as soon as we became aware of them. An effective Naval blockade wasn't accomplished until after the Tet Offensive.

4. Espionage. The CIA should have been able to control the South Vietnamise government better by placing of proxy leadership to prevent serial coups resulting in successively degraded South VIetnamise leadership. South Vietnamise leadership should have been force, at gunpoint if needs be, to be more friendly to the Buddhists. CIA should have been actively attempting to assassinate Ho Chi Min and his generals.

5. War Crimes. Events llke My Lai should have been actively prosecuted and deterred.

These efforts would have won the war."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522619 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)20:37:31")

">>38522552
excepting the fifth (which I would argue a lot of the fourth was not possible without) We started to winthe war post summer 68 because we started doing all of these things. Too bad it was all squandered."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522626 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)20:38:16")

">>38517910
>meanwhile, back at home, the Soviet infiltrated media painted another picture and convinced the population that Tet was a major defeat for US forces.
this is a meme. everybody knew Tet was a major assfuck for the VC and NVA."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522683 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)20:41:18")

">>38522626
there's litterally footage of Walter Kremlite on national tv calling it a defeat in the documentary. It was both infuriating and /kino/"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522693 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)20:42:00")

">>38516844
That's what happens when neutered Democrat politicians run a war."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522709 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)20:44:00")

">>38522683
>Walter Kremlite
Dafuq?"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522740 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)20:46:17")

">>38518487

But they did win they won the right to self-determination and not become some overseas American holding. Right now they are an up and coming country sure with issues but better than being some vassal state of American Imperialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Vietnam

Mind you I'm not sitting here touting the glories of Socialism."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522793 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)20:51:06")

">>38522619
>excepting the fifth (which I would argue a lot of the fourth was not possible without) We started to winthe war post summer 68 because we started doing all of these things. Too bad it was all squandered.
I agree. Had we started doing these things, it would have been a 2-year war, even with the antiquated technology we had. Kennedy, McNamarra, Johnson, and Nixon all saw the war as a political entity, not a military objective. And they all knew shit about east Asian politics and sociology."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522861 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)20:56:13")

">>38522793
instead we played 'feed your working class to the jungle' for nearly a decade."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522913 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:00:20")

">>38517260
>mesuring unconventional wars by conventional logic

Everybody point and laugh"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38522990 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:06:41")

">>38519165
What the fuck, do you have private viewing parties of you browsing /k/?"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523024 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:09:05")

">>38521692
precisely. was an occupation even necessary? osama was hiding in pakistan the whole time. it was purely an exercise in spending and maintaining the force. don't doubt it: we, the taxpayer, lost."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523060 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:11:49")

">>38522861
>instead we played 'feed your working class to the jungle' for nearly a decade.
With 5% of the budget for ordnance, we could have lifted every Vietnamise rice farmer out of poverty. Given them medicine, food., education. But events like My Lai (and for every one reported there were probably ten or more that weren't, throughout the war), we lost the trust of the working class. Turns out the little bastards would rather be alive, than free.

Oh, and it also turns out that your war strategy can't just be to kill extremist enemies until they agree with you, unless you are willing to kill every. last. one.

And we weren't willing to do that.

No doubt the politicians were, but the people of America and the South Vietnamise peasants weren't. If it were up to politicians, we'd probably still be fighting there today."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523086 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:14:49")

">>38523060
>implying the US didn't build a shitload of schools, hospitals, and homes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Operations_and_Revolutionary_Development_Support"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523095 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:16:13" && image=="868D83EE-AF35-4860-97BF-906C467213A6.jpg")

">ywn bring the rain to the music of Steppenwolf in the red hot summer of 68
There are some great moments of this doc. /k/udos to whoever put together the soundtrack."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523098 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:16:21")

">>38523024
If we leave, and the Afghan government disintegrates, then the Taliban will come back and they'll probably host more Al Qaeda and IS faggots who will continue to cause us problems.

You can make your own judgement as to whether it's worth it, but denying a safe haven to terrorist organizations is a pretty reasonable strategic rationale."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523236 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:31:01")

">>38523060
OUR working class was being fed to the jungle. If you have to fight a war you fight it all the way, starting with actually dismantling the North's government and ending their ability to invade their neighbor.
Or you say 'fuck the corrupt bastards down here, fuck the jungle, fuck these tunnels, and fuck these hippies, let's go get some good Thai pussy'."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523263 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:33:55" && image=="The strain of battle for Dong Xoai is shown on the face of U.S. Army Sgt. Philip Fink, an advisor to the 52nd Vietnamese Ranger battalion.jpg")

">>38517772
Even though we beat it back, the Easter Offensive in 72 showed they were still a force that could mobilize.
>>38519743
Soviets and Chinese were too busy bickering with each other about who had the more ideal form, further stirred by Mao's cultural revolution.

They provided material support and advisers at times, but the support was nominal compared to U.S. support of the ARVN. AFAIK, only North Korea provided pilots to the NVA.
>>38518323
Was Army myself, and we were strongly encouraged (tested, and front-leaning rest if you were wrong) to at least research and know the history of our present unit. Had a couple NCOs who would regularing recommend various history book.
>>38519955
We have been getting increasingly closer as China flexes their regional muscle.

>>38519991
Only vet I knew with that attitude was a white trash asshole who bought a grill with his enlistment bonus and attempted to rap off duty. Who eventually got an other than honorable.

>>38516823
My two cents, our biggest handicap was the ongoing support of varying South Vietnamese governments, simply because they weren't communists.

The leadership in the South Vietnamese government, as well as a lot of the ARVN was toxic, leading to poor performance and morale.

Also seeing what has also occurred in both OIF and OEF, ghost rosters. Guys who sign up, who don't even show up as long as they give their commanding officer a portion of their salary.

No matter what we did, contemporary South Vietnam was its largest obstacle. We were just along for the ride, along with a few allies that get rare mentions. There was a greater portion of the South Korean population deployed in Vietnam than there was of the U.S. population.

>t. OIF 06-07

>The strain of battle for Dong Xoai is shown on the face of U.S. Army Sgt. Philip Fink, an advisor to the 52nd Vietnamese Ranger battalion"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523282 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:35:37" && image=="Shygirl Karen 06.jpg")

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523313 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:39:26")

">>38516823

Haha, Americans got fucking destroyed."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523370 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:44:29" && image=="655ddafb653dc491d6f2f9e0cd75cd35.png")

">>38522990
>/k/ is gay
>shocking revelation"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523372 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:44:34")

">>38518701
>truth is delusional"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523437 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:50:24")

">>38522552
You forget one glaring point that would have shut down the entirety of North Vietnam: full-on ground invasion of the North."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523448 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:51:14" && image=="2C8E8524-4498-46C2-BE55-936EBD35AEC2.jpg")

">>38523437
>we're gonna need more zippo tanks"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523470 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:53:20")

">>38523437

Never would have happened you're literally walking into a hornets nest. Those people would have chosen to die to a person than live under American rule."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523478 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:53:54")

">>38519999
They did. Communist Afghanistan outlived the USSR itself by almost a year, and the Taliban didn't take full control of Afghanistan until 1998"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523483 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:54:09")

">>38516823
they werent allowed to win"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523531 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)21:59:01")

">>38523470
Then we would have given them their death via bayonets, bullets, tanks, napalm, and anything the US military was willing to throw at them. Any armed combatant will be blown up by the US juggernaut and any suspected commie will be treated as such by the South Vietnamese and Koreans (which they "loved" so much).

Treating the entirety of North Vietnam as a conventional army will be decimated as such."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523547 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:00:05")

">>38523437
>>38523531
Again.

>goal is to make the US people think you're doing a good job at foreign policy so they'll reelect you and vote for your party
>start a nuclear war with China

pick 1"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523585 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:02:22")

">>38516823
Movies were way better than the crappy afghan Iraqi fare. I mean the hurt locker, three kings and jarhead were ok, but there is nothing like apocalypse now or full metal jacket.

With Vietnam you got books like dispatches and chickenhawk, Iraq and afghan mostly dross with a nod to jarhead. Its all bravo two zero shit.

Music, no competition, Vietnam had a far better soundtrack.

Sex, Asian go go dancers and hookers in leather mini skirts are incomparibly hotter than some arab crone with a bag on her head.


Vietnam wins best war since korea, which had human waves and winter warfare. Best wars have either jungle or shit loads of snow."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523618 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:04:26")

">>38523547
>>start a nuclear war with China

This would have been the right choice. Did you know at the height of the Cuban missile crisis Russia only had three working nukes. I mean the US really needs to grow its balls back and go full emeror of japan level shut the fuck up to the next place that threatens them with armageddon"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523636 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:05:34")

">>38523547
Our goal here is thinking about winning the Vietnam War.

Literally killing them all would have won us everything, including against the Chinese.

Politicians getting in the way is something else, unless Barry Goldwater was at the helm."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523679 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:08:34")

">>38523531

Yeah commit what amounts to genocide will really score you points at home and abroad. You somehow think China and Russia would sit it out as America took a torch to an entire country."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523772 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:16:01")

">>38523679
Genocide? If a person was burned or bombed and no one is there to report it, did a person really die? Not only do we kill them all, we kill them quickly.

The Chinese want in? We do the same. The Russians want in? They get the same. And that's where we win. To hell with whatever everyone thinks because it would be too late and the communists would think twice about full-on confrontation with US military power."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523792 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:17:28")

">>38523772
>goal is to win Cold War
>lose Cold War by doing stupid shit to yellow people"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523843 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:22:18")

">>38523772
I pray this is bait."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523854 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:23:27")

">>38523792
>killing all the Russians, Chinese, and every other communist isn't winning the Cold War

Foolish. We destroyed the Axis by destroying their armies, countries, and much of their leadership and they are now our best friends. We do the same to Red China and Russia, put in their place friendly leaders, and we win as well."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523910 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:28:17")

">>38523792

Stop replying to the moron man let him live out his fantasy Fallout world if he wants to."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38523951 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:32:45")

">>38523854
The point of winning Vietnam is to win the Cold War.

The point of winning the Cold War is to make life easier for Americans.

Glassing half of the planet does not make life easier for Americans, and is thus an unacceptable outcome, even if it wins the Cold War for the US."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38524030 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:40:23")

">>38516823
>What is Any current or former member care to share?
my dad says the same thing you always hear. it was a bad situation and the military didn't have the support of the civilians at home."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38524059 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)22:44:11")

">>38523951
We are not "glassing" half the planet, only Russia and China, and certainly not every inch of it if need be. The other communist puppets they put up only have conventional means of warfare, but as soon as their puppet masters get destroyed, they topple over as well.

Americans can sleep easy without them. We never needed them to live, rather, having them die would be better."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38524338 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)23:12:49")

">>38517321
>eradicate communist presence in South Vietnam
Failed
>establish a strong stable anti communist government/military
Failed
>stop the spread of communism too other south East Asian nations
Failed
>show the rest of the world America is a capable, defiant military and political partner
Failed

What exactly is it they achieved?
>inb4 Muh Paris peace accords, we brought the Commies to the negotiating table!
The Paris peace accords was violated within days of it's signing by both sides and fully thrown out the window within a year or so with the NVA offensives. If you want to claim every temporary ceasefire in a war as an ending victory point you're deluded and desperate."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38524524 && dateTime=="07/10/18(Tue)23:32:54" && image=="5C77A868-30ED-41D6-8091-AF7C6D8453A2.jpg")

">>38517772
The VC and PAVN resoundedly lost the Tet offensive, the big wigs in Hanoi was banking on the people in places like Hue City to rise up and join the PAVN but when they didn’t they REEEEE’d and starting massacring people. ARVN got their shit pushed in trying to take Hue back a seriously outnumbered force of Marines took the city back. They kicked the shit out of the NLF and PAVN, however it didn’t matter. The gov’t has been telling the public that they had everything under control and that they were winning so when a horde Nguyens launched a massive, well coordinated attack all over South Vietnam and that Americans were dying in heavy combat suddenly and being overrun in some place really rustled jimmies back home. Shit went downhill from there"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38524998 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)00:26:32")

">>38516823
It was a horrible war that we didn't have to fight. If maybe people weren't so fucking paranoid over a system that would collapse eventually on its own, my dad wouldn't have gotten PTSD."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38525163 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)00:45:18" && image=="1518794507768.png")

">>38523772
We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do,
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38525816 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:10:06")

">>38517321
Read a fucking book nigger"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38525834 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:13:52")

">>38516823
it was a tool by lbj to get his bullshit passed and we won it as vietnam is 1 trade partner is the US
they treat us better than the germans"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38525850 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:16:10")

">>38524338
The goals of the Vietnam war were to keep south Vietnam free, and prevent other countries from becoming communist.

The second goal was fully achieved.
The first goal was temporarily achieved, until Nixon resigned, the democrats took power, stabbed the south in the back, reneged on all agreements, and handed a victory to the north on a silver platter."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38525922 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:25:37")

">>38525850
>The second goal was fully achieved.
I'd attribute that mostly due to the clusterfuck that was the Sino-Soviet split and other factors."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38525942 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:27:44")

">>38525922
Well I'm sure there also weren't a lot of countries around the world that looked at Vietnam, and thought to themselves "Hey, looks like they had a great time!""
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38525970 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:31:23")

">>38519977
This essentially. Americas greatest military weakness is the public will"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38525979 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:32:45")

">>38516836
Great series, awesome soundtrack to boot. At least one nine inch nails song i think the wretched to name one"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38525982 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:33:07")

">>38516927
>Germany won the Russian war"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38525992 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:34:39")

">>38520029
>the norks were shit at winning the South over
Hahaha what? Basically most viets supported the north. The south was so thoroughly infiltrated by North sympathetizers they would get intel before it filtered down to the ground troops. And at one point most of the food supplied to the North was southern supplies pilfered by Southern traitors"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526027 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:40:03")

">>38519925
>we should have controlled the media
>we're totally not power-tripping fuckstains like those commies
please pick one and only one"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526057 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:47:28")

">>38522740
>Mind you I'm not sitting here touting the glories of Socialism.
Well you kind of are considering the name of the country is now the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Also regarding vassal states, Western Europe, Japan, and South Korea are all doing rather well."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526077 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:51:40")

">>38523772
you can't hide killing an entire country, especially if you want to use it as intimidation
everything's not just about power and fear, people have other reasons for doing what they do"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526100 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)02:55:48")

">>38519939

ELABORATE"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526619 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)04:57:56" && image=="1530060365186.jpg")

">>38516844
>becomes capitalist anyways
The saddest part about the whole thing is that the war was never even necessary to defeat communism."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526627 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)05:01:55")

">>38525982
>being this retarded
Good on you, anon."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526719 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)05:44:51")

">>38519743
Lol what
1/3 of the regular forces the US faced and actually caused much of the material damage to the US where the Soviet and Chinese troops. The US just doesnt rub that in because today Vietnam suck up to it and has become a pet like the Saudis while Russia and China are still the bad guys. Viets are just Viets and claim full credit for things they didnt accomplish or even no one ever accomplished."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526790 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)06:19:31")

">>38516823
Much, much, much, much more could have been done in Vietnam with the carrot than with the stick. When Hoi Chi Minh declared Vietnam's Independence, he literally read a good deal of the American Declaration of Independence and appealed directly to America for help. Had the US provided logistical support and trade to the strongest ruling party in Vietnam, we could have made THEM the puppets without the bloodshed.

They only appealed to Russia when it's obvious they couldn't get the Western Democracies on their side.

The military industrial complex loves selling wars to the public. The munitions companies, banks, and pentagon makes money hand over fist. But the public always loses, or at least that's been the case since about 1950, where pre-emptive attacks became a thing.

But there's better ways to accomplish the same goals. Funding/trading/arming the ruling power is more likely to wind up like Japan or Saudi Arabia. The public WILL fall in line and the US will have peace. But occasionally it will require turning a blind eye to the atrocities that the ruling power, particularly atrocities made before they were the ruling power.

If a man or nation goes about trying solve every problem with just the hammer, there's gonna be a lot of things that get broken. There needs to be more tools in our toolkit and the hammer truly is a last resort, war should ONLY be used defensively or if an ally needs help (and if an ally needs help, you must walk the fine line between an appropriately proportional act of war rather than something that escalates the situation.

Same thing with all the middle east boondoggle."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526793 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)06:20:55")

">>38516844
But they did lose. They got to stay communist."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526806 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)06:24:48")

">>38518701
What are: Paris Peace Accords"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526813 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)06:26:50")

">>38516823
That image is fucking retarded. The VC had a politically untouchable border to retreat to and the support of a superpower. You won't have either of those things.

Faggots always bring the vietnam war up because it was a US defeat without understanding where the military factors end and the grand scale political factors start. Yes, the US lost the Vietnam war. But the VC didn't win it any more than France won ww2. Ending up on the winning side =! defeating the enemy. It was the Soviet Union that won it."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526815 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)06:28:03")

">>38518701
The US lost but the VC sure as hell didn't make them lose, the Soviets did. If it was just VC the war would've been over by 68."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526836 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)06:35:14")

">>38517287
>>38517420
Not its more like beating up a guy really badly only ending up going to jail. Then your life is ruined now"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526861 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)06:46:09")

">>38516823
>le based gooks commie bullshit again
The Jews ended that war you dumb faggot"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38526968 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)07:25:42")

">>38526619
If America had won that war Vietnam would still be in turmoil today.
It's not capitalism or communism that had to win.
It's that America had to fail."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38527040 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)07:45:39")

">>38517743
I generally agree with this. The only disagreement i have is the building of roads and other infrastructure. While by itself it wouldn't have worked, building these things and slapping a big "donated by the good old US of A" sticker on them would have gone a long way towards improving American image.

Also not going about burning villages would have helped."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38528223 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)11:46:27" && image=="1521070716305.png")

">>38516823
For every US soldier killed 14 vietshits died."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38528251 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)11:51:49")

">>38516823
Pretty bad example since those goys where supported and supplied by outside powers with some serious hardware."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38529183 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)13:57:44")

">>38528223
For every German, 8 Soviets died. That doesnt mean they won WW2 tho."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38529847 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)15:23:11")

">>38525850
>the second goal was fully achieved
What alternate timeline do you live in? Cambodia, South Vietnam and Laos went communist in what metric did America "fully" achieve the goal of stopping the spread of communism in SE Asia?

>they temporarily achieved the first goal of keeping South Vietnam free
Hahahah yeah ok and Nazi Germany temporarily achieved the goal of occupying Western Europe. The year America fully withdrew 27000 ARVN soilders and police were killed despite your victory defining peace accords and the NVA still held land throughout South Vietnam America did not leave on winning terms in the slightest.

Oh yeah also it was Nixon that began the large scale withdrawal of US troops despite the incompetent state of the ARVN, still capable presence of the NVA in the south and with the likelihood of the US intervening in any sizeable way again looking like a dubious proposition.

So you can stop your "we left after we won" and if it wasn't for Muh backstabbing democrats! Memes because it's contrarian and try hard and makes you sound like an idiot who has no idea what you're talking about."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38531674 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)18:46:12")

">>38526968
The thing is that North Vietnam was actually much more pro-American than pro-Soviet before the war. They war could have been avoided all together and we'd have North Vietnam in our pocket if we were autistic with whole "MUH COMMUNISM""
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38531719 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)18:50:55")

">>38531674
yeah, we really pushed Vietnam into China's arms even though Vietnam really doesn't like China"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38531991 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)19:15:31")

">>38519925
Tet offensive was such a large political win for the North Vietnamese because for the years before, the military/government was telling the public that the North was wearing out and almost out of men and material because thats what military intelligence believed.

Then the North pulls off a massive country-wide offensive with mechanized forces, and the media and public effectively revolt because they believe what the military has been telling them was a lie."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38532000 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)19:16:07")

">>38529847
>Incompetent state of ARVN
Contrary to that meme, the ARVN was perfectly competent and well trained. The issue was ARVN was still largely crutched on American material support, from basic rifles and trucks to essential air and indirect fire. When Nixon started vacuuming US shit out of country the ARVN simply could not compete with NVA/VC troops being supplied by both USSR and China."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38532025 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)19:18:25")

">>38532000
In Lam Son 719, where ARVN had US air and logistical support but no ground troops, ARVN forces got creamed.

Also, it baffles me that nobody has heard of that battle because it was one of the most important engagements of the war."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38532184 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)19:33:00")

">>38532025
>ARVN units walk into a well-laid NVA defensive position, and also having numerical superiority

A leadership/planning failure more than anything, which is assuredly expected at 1970 when USA has basically made it clear they are fucking off leaving ARVN, still an infant and not even born on steady ground, to their devices.

The ARVN also shouldered most of the fighting during the Tet Offensive fucking shattering NVA/VC units, so I don't think 1 operation is enough to go and say they are entirely incompetent."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38534566 && dateTime=="07/11/18(Wed)23:11:23")

">>38532000
>ARVN was perfectly competent and professional
How can you unironically say this and simultaneously claim that I'm making up memes.

The ARVN fully outnumbered the NVA in 75 had more armor, artillery, total air supremacy, control of logistical arteries and they were defending. The smaller NVA still managed too launch a full blown ofensive from the DMZ to Saigon routing and overrunning the ARVN all the way with few exceptions, say what you will about shortages and maintenance problems if the ARVN was half way competent, professional and motivated they should've been able to grind down the offensive.

If you read much from the perspective of the VC and NVA or even Americans on the ground there's little they say to commend the ARVN they were routinely routed in combat, were by the book and repititive in style and very corrupt and undisiplined. That's not to say there were exceptions obviously some ARVN units were professional and highly motivated but to imply they were the rule not the exception is reaching too far."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38535591 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)01:10:49" && image=="main-qimg-d392b751ba5a2c3384f12fc9368b72d7.png")

">>38532025
> it was one of the most important engagements of the war."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38535701 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)01:22:17")

">>38516823
Way too much to put down here in one or 100 posts, but consider:

General Westmoreland wanted to build the Vietnam Army into a mechanized force, much like the US, despite that not being well adapted to the terrain, and the Vietnamese being too poor to build and maintain such forces.

Soldiers rotated in and out without much regard to unit cohesion, and by the end half of potential draftees were deferred.

Lots of problems in Vietnam, but in general, don't fight a war. If you are going to fight a war, pull out all stops, and don't fight it in degrees."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38535716 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)01:24:00")

">>38516823

It played out worse than how we feared an Invasion of Japan would have in WWII because the terrain was even more favorable to guerilla warfare. We didn't have the option of Nuking Vietnam into submission because this time we had Soviet nukes pointed at us. In terms of raw numbers Charlie got BTFO but genocide wasn't the goal. It wasn't worth it at the time, but technology has progressed so far that Vietnam 2.0 would be an achievable victory."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38535872 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)01:42:22")

""The Oriental doesn't put the same high price on life as does a Westerner. Life is plentiful, life is cheap in the Orient. And as the philosophy of the Orient expresses it: Life is not important.

"Let me also say that Giap was trained in small-unit, guerrilla tactics, but he persisted in waging a big-unit war with terrible losses to his own men. By his own admission, by early 1969, I think, he had lost, what, a half million soldiers? He reported this. Now such a disregard for human life may make a formidable adversary, but it does not make a military genius. An American commander losing men like that would hardly have lasted more than a few weeks."

--William Westmoreland"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38537139 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)06:22:19")

">>38535591
>despite a two to one advantage, more and better equipment and US air support on steroids ARVN lost key provinces in the north only achieved a 1:2-1:1 casulty ratio and were unable to claim said provinces back by which time the peace accords gave them to the NVA permanently

Great example of the excellent ARVN, but in all seriousness the fact they didn't stomp the human wave launching, bombed to the Stone Age, logistically choked NVA back to the DMZ despite advantages in nearly every metric is a great example of how poor the ARVN was (though admittedly the offensive showed the serious over estimation of there own abilities the NVA suffered)"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38537186 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)06:39:56")

">>38519955
We sell them guns and they point them at China. If that isn't friendship I don't know what is."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38537211 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)06:48:03" && image=="1528676087442.png")

">>38523772
YEAH KILL 'EM"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38537327 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)07:23:17")

">>38537211
>triggered leftist"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38537392 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)07:39:53")

">>38524059
You sound like a lunatic."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38537416 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)07:46:13")

">>38537327
>anyone who thinks that american KILL EM ALL mentality is dumb as fuck is a leftist
triggered poltard"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38537445 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)07:52:48")

"Now that I think about it, I probably hadn't studied it a whole lot. I find parts of it fascinating and thought it was somewhat necessary. In my own opinion. The abstract 'stop the spread of communism' stuff never really sounded like a clear objective when it was really simple about stopping insurgents that had been running around murdering people from over throwing a newly established government that just gained independence, the NVA were basically imperialists for a fake country masquerading as revolutionaries when they simply had a political ideology that was so wrong that their fellow countrymen as a majority rejected it democratically. It kind of goes back to the 'real communism hasn't been tried' because like most communists, it wasn't about communism that was a propaganda tool of the dictatorship in charge of it as an excuse to use their underlings as bullet sponges so they wouldn't get killed themselves so they could have bourgeoisie lifestyles and handing out empty promises they'll treat them fairly and killing them if they disagree. The US used too much restraint of force.";


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38537525 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)08:08:16")

">>38526057
>doing rather well
they did well, but all they have from here is decline/stagnation
essentially theyre just 30 years ahead of the game"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38539180 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)12:59:12")

">>38534566
I said they were competent and well trained. The ARVN did most of the fighting in the early stages with US advisors and air power, in a warfighting form that is unfamiliar to them and had moderate to high tactical success.

In the mid stages of the war, once again ARVN shouldered most of the fighting, managing to hold on through the Tet Offensive, scraping a tactical victory again.

In the later stages of the war when they were drafting, much like the Americans, troop quality falls. Professionalism is a word I didn't use nor would I for this time of the war.
The North obviously had the better logistical support since Nixon didn't try very hard to push into Cambodia and Linebackers total ineffectiveness on the Trail. When your soldiers can't afford to fire off a combat load of ammunition in a month, it's hard to claim better logistics.
Furthermore, their army is still in it's relative infancy being coddled by the Americans - is abandoned. On top of the South leadership throughout the political and military spheres being wrought with corruption, it's not a surprise they floundered in the Spring Offensive.

Being repetitive and uncreative is also not a fair statement considering they pioneered the ACAV mods adopted by the US, and also introduced the idea of using APCs in the IFV role, rather than simply as transport.

Undoubtedly corruption existed through positions of command, and regional/PF troops are little better than town militia, but regarding all things, I say the ARVN was a good fighting force that was fucked off and abandoned in its' critical formative years."
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38539196 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)13:01:36")

">>38539180
It was founded in the mid 50s though.

The US backed ARVN for 20 years, and it was never, at any point, superior to the communists.

After a certain point you're just sending good money after bad."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38539210 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)13:03:32")

">>38537445
>US used too much restraint of force.
Because they didn't have public support, didn't want to drag China in like what happened in Korea and never brought the S. Vietnamese to the table in how to actually tackle the war. McNamara just went autistic for numbers, and then that's how they wanted to fight it."
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38539257 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)13:10:50")

">>38516823
US intentionally lost. look at ROE."
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38539295 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)13:14:59")

">>38539196
I'd say ultimately it came down to individual fighting spirit, feeding into that of the collective. The North Vietnamese were simply more prepared to die for their cause than the South were for theirs."
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38539321 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)13:18:23")

">>38516927
If you kill your enemies they win tier logic"
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38539794 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)14:19:34")

">>38516823
The fact is that the Vietcong were forced to the surrendering table in Paris after sustaining massive losses in manpower and materiel. The Communists were a spent force when America left Vietnam, and the only reason they took over 10 years after the US withdrawal was down to China and the democrats funneling financial and materiel support to the VC.

Also there was a lot of betrayal from the MSM in America which weakened people's resolve to support the war."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38539996 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)14:48:57")

">>38539794
>MSM betrayal of American people
>Meanwhile the Pentagon/RAND leak thousands of documents detailing the high command's lack of direction plan, or optimism in the mission
>Spending millions and dropping more ordnance than WWI/WWII combined
The MSM didn't report the best facts, but neither did the Pentagon or the military. The war in Vietnam is a classic example of a mis-educated leadership and a force with no mission. If you doubt that than you need only to look at how South Vietnam very quickly fell to the North very shortly after our withdrawal."
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38540370 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)15:46:25")

">>38539794
>criticizing the government is "betrayal""
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38541891 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)18:52:25")

">>38540370
It is when you're trying to protect your country."
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38541975 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)19:01:24")

">>38541891
>Vietnam War
>Protecting the US
Someone didn't read about French Colonialism in school."
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38542005 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)19:04:57" && image=="1512432096637.png")

">>38516927

Holy kek, those mental gymnastics..

>We couldn't defeat a peasant uprising and prevent PAVN raids when we had HALF A FUCKING MILLION AMERICAN TROOPS STATIONED IN COUNTRY...

>But surely, the corrupt ARVN CAN, once we pull out while trying to save face!

I sharted a little."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38542155 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)19:22:53")

">>38531719
Exactly. Vietnam and China had fought each other a few times over expansion in part of the Chinese,and the only reason they were allied was because of their political system. Had we not alienated NV we may have had a chance to stop the domino effect.

>We lost the political war long before we resigned ourselves to a conflicting outcome in '75

>There are no winners. There are survivors."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38543007 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)20:55:16")

">>38539794
>I learn about history and politics from 4chan the post
The fact is the US came to the negotiating table after having to withdraw in shame as a result of continued NVA/VC military pressure. Too top it off months before the peace accords the NVA launched a massive offensive into the south captured strategic positions in the Northern provinces then only after realising they couldn't push further or endure much more US bombing they agreed to the accords on the condition the US FULLY WITHDREW but the NVA could still keep territory(read: staging military bases) in South Vietnam, yes you read that right Nixon agreed the NVA could hold territory all over South fucking Vietnam.

That's the conditions America left on, NVA would capture South Vietnam just over a year later (not 10) VICTORY MY FUCKING ASS."
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38543054 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)21:00:06")

">>38542005
one free pity (you)
pls at least try"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38543115 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)21:06:10")

">>38539210
It's because of commies. People don't realize communism isn't a real system. "real communism hasn't been tried" because real communism is a propaganda tool. It's a combination of a ponzi scheme and a pay day loan. You put this up front I promise to give you more, make more off the interest and never intend to pay it back. It's a hustle. Anyone that wants to collect ends up dead. If they don't end up dead over someone calling bullshit on the game, they exploit people just like any other system so they can be the upper class doing it and kill them if they get in the way.

Why they weren't killed is one of the things I find fascinating about the history of it. People think if you kill the leader you cut the head off the snake but that's not how it works. Part of the reason why I think it was necessary is because it refined techniques in identifying what parts to cut off so it doesn't just shed it's old skin and start over again like a snake."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38543326 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)21:28:39")

">>38526806
>Paris Peace Accords
>US gave away concession after concession to beg the North Vietnamese delegation to sign the ceasefire in time for the 1972 election

but we won guize"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38543894 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)22:29:59" && image=="1300044776986.jpg")

">>38516823
>civilians could take on the US Military
>fighting a war across 8,500 miles of ocean is comparable to one on the homefront
>The US now has drones, gps guided arty and much better ifv's

Dumb fudd"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38543953 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)22:37:55")

">>38526057
and North Korea is democratic.

Also yoked to an aging power that is going to destroy half the world to retain relevance."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38543961 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)22:38:57")

">>38526619
muh fucking dominoes

Just remember the dominoes when some 'intelligent' foreign policy wonk is telling you anything."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38543963 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)22:39:00")

">>38520002
>inb4 muh mcdonalds in vietnam
Playin the long game, senpai."
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38543994 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)22:42:35")

">>38543961
That was a political theory only imaginable by a Marxist. It was the dominant American foreign policy on communism for decades. Fucking ideological traitors doing their job at weakening the US."
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38544010 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)22:44:35")

">>38543894
implying we would fight the military and not avoid them
implying the military wouldn't silently condone our right wing death squads"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38544045 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)22:48:11")

">>38544010
How do these people think homeland drones strikes would affect public opinion of the government?

How do these people think flensing and crucifying drone operators in public squares would affect public opinion on domestic terrorists?"
;


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38544244 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)23:11:55")

">>38543994
You actually sound like a red scare era conservative, like Jesus Christ dude every flaw of the US political establishment doesn't boil down to le ebil communist conspiracy, neocon warmongers are believe it or not capable of being misguided or flawed in there planning without outside influence"
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if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==38544281 && dateTime=="07/12/18(Thu)23:14:46")

">>38544010
>"we"
>Muh right wing death squads
Dreams are free I suppose"
;


}
}