import 4.code.options;
import 4.code.about;

class Header{

public void title(){

String fullTitle = "/lit/ - Literature";

public void menu();

public void board();

public void goToBottom();

public void refresh(a);

class Thread extends Board{
public void PeterSotos(OP Anonymous){

String fullTitle = "Peter Sotos";
int postNumber = "11914356";
String image = "744B126C-FF62-41DC-9CA8-2ABC1C25EDE6.jpg";
String date = "10/11/18(Thu)00:14:26";
String comment = "I’ve got a few questions about this guy, but the thread is also open to a general discussion of his work.

So, I’ve read extensively about him and his work, but I haven’t yet consumed it. I wanted to do this because I wanted to know if reading his stuff was worth my time. I’m not going to read 200 pages of someone trying to convince me that child abuse is a good thing. But after hearing people talk about him, I still have no idea what his stance is. Some people say he’s a straight up pedophile but others say he’s making a fantastic analysis and critique of how society views and handles the problem of child abuse. If it’s the latter, then by all means, I’d love to hear what he has to say. But is it somewhere in between? The reviews of his books are always just “wew lad, that’s heavy”, and one person has even told me they’ve read all of his books and still don’t know exactly how he feels or what his intentions are.

My next question: if he isn’t a pedophile, where’s a good place to start with his books? I’d prefer to not be too fucking scared by his descriptions, so if there’s a book that’s more analysis than just events, I think that’d be best.

Anything else you guys care to share about him?"

public void comments(){
if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11914477 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)00:41:38")

He’s sexually deviant, probably pedophile, and his pornography is the newspapers and tabloid media with their gratuitous and invasive . He’s not a pedo apologist or anything banal and retarded like that. If you want to understand human depravity, rather than moralise from a comfortable distance, then read him. He’s not going to mince words or skew his perspective out of vanity or propriety because he’s already beyond acceptability."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11914490 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)00:45:35")

he loves banal pedo shit that's pretty much it in a nutshell and im surprised that could be articulated so fast on lit"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11914514 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)00:52:55")

Okay, I think I’m interested. Yeah I don’t need someone to tell me pedos are bad or anything like that, but I’d be interested in understanding them.

What book do you suggest I start with? Tick sounded interesting"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11914516 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)00:53:20")

Form what I can tell he's pushing the social limit and showing the mindset of the greatest depravities possible. I support the guy, a genuine modern de Sade. That even so many /lit/ards have been seriously offended is a testament."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11914519 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)00:54:06")

"Andrea Dworkin is one of Peter Sotos's main influences, so you might find her writing interesting. She covers a lot of the same ground with the same kind of urgency. The "Apocalypse Culture" compilations are also fun reading from this kind of 90s "transgression" sphere of writing.
Sotos is fun to read but hard to defend. I think he yanks it to kiddie porn for sure. I've only read scans of Pure and Index when I was an edgy teenage boy. Felt pretty naughty to bust it out on the bus.
I like the old Whitehouse albums where they sound like angry grannies."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11914537 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)00:58:54")

The work he has that's easy to find (in torrents and shit) gets a little repetitive after a while. Holding out hope that someday his books will be scanned and uploaded or even get some kind of ebook release. Doesn't seem likely, though, but a boy can dream."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11914560 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)01:05:06")

yeah it doesn't seem like any of his later writing (that sounds much more interesting) exists in .epub format, and the printed copies are all dumb expensive

I could probably flip my old copy of Index for decent coin now, boo."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11915559 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)08:01:40")


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11916496 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)12:56:58")

"Just listen to buyer's market";

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11917539 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)17:09:19")

It sounds too artsy when I hear about it. I feel like you’d have to make leaps to understand his intentions. The bluntness of his writing sounds more appealing"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11917571 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)17:15:25")

>sounds too artsy
Eh, why don't you just listen to it yourself? It's an album that's an hour long and on youtube."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11917784 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)17:59:01")

>What book do you suggest I start with?
You're going to be shackled by what's available. Most of the books are out of print and demand stupid collector values, so you have to trawl eBay here and there for more reasonable prices. Off the top of my head, I think Selfish, Little is the only one still available from the publisher (Nine Banded Books) and it's as good a starting point as any. His afterwords to the Ian Brady book are good too and nearly book-length on their own. If you can find a copy of Comfort & Critique, that's one of my favorites. That one is emotionally devastating in its look into the lives of Sarah Payne's family.

I would not jump straight into anything he's written since 2006 or so until you've read some of his other work and know whether it's for you. His prose has become exceedingly contorted and disorienting. He's made the claim that he writes only for himself, and you can certainly lean towards that being some sort of posturing, but he seems to have abandoned any concessions towards being easily understood.

Regarding your first post, don't be mistaken that his writing is pedophile apologia. Apocalypse Culture II is a good argument, in that he has a piece in that book preceded by some goofy defense of pedophilia from some guy citing Greek relationships with young boys and the standard NAMBLA rigmarole. The kinds of "relationships" and sexual interactions that Sotos explores are presented in a relentlessly ugly manner. It'd be about as compelling a defense of child abuse as straight up showing people crime scene photos.

As to his personal life and whether he's a pedophile, nobody knows and it seems that a facet of his work is his glee in keeping you wondering. He's taken great advantage of the fact that the only verifiable piece of biographical information available is his arrest. He's the ultimate in unreliable narrators."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11917822 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)18:06:59")

I'll post this with a disclaimer. Somehow a PDF copy of Lordotics ended up on the internet, scanned from one of the paperback collected volumes. From what I've seen, most people well-versed in Sotos's bibliography consider this one of his worst books. It contains material recycled from previous works and is borderline incoherent in a way that his later books don't even approach. I'm assuming this was the reason that it was published in an edition of like 100 copies which is even tiny for him.!ktsWhKBJ!bbeaHmgXAAl16OLOKxfnfMTUQYS0cQRYk8kJpI4eC7Q"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11917856 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)18:12:45" && image=="151.jpg")

"here's his most recent interview from a few years ago in a German magazine";

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11917864 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)18:13:46" && image=="152.jpg")

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11917869 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)18:15:33" && image=="154.jpg")

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11917888 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)18:18:09" && image=="158.jpg")

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11917899 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)18:19:59" && image=="160.jpg")

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11917918 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)18:22:52" && image=="162.jpg")

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11918729 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)21:45:41")

man, this is excellent. thank you.
is the disclaimer related to its legality, to it being possibly disgusting, or to being kinda bad? if the former..."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11918937 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)22:37:59")

I read, either in an extract from one of his earlier works, or in a short piece that showed up in a Kiddiepunk collection, that he considers child pornography categorically abhorrent and lacking in any value, almost as if it was worse that just the rape of a child itself. I highly doubt he's a pedophile, he seems to me to be more embodying and disgusted by the way the media treats pedophilia and childraping, by putting it in a light of evil encasing innocence as opposed to acknowledging pedophilia as part of the brutal, amoral reality of human behavior, which may be a much more harsh but ultimately insightful and perhaps enlightening way of looking at it.

On the other hand I think i may be reductive, because the convoluted nature of what he does throws a wrench in everything. It seems to me like he tries to equate the objectifying and ultimately murderous nature of a child rapist with the predatory and totalitarian approach to truth that the media adopts in portraying tragedies like the ones he explores. Like pornography isn't limited to video/pictures etc of child abuse, but to the representation and obsession over it in the large media circus as well. It's a swirl of non-fiction and essay and confrontational monologuing.

I find him fascinating and perhaps a bit insane but I'm weary to call him pedophillic.but then again I don't know the man. I do think and know he's against child pornography and rape as a whole though."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11919082 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)23:13:58")

Thank you! This scan should be readable on my e-reader.

Cool interview. This is tangential but I guess I have to read de Sade one day huh"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11919112 && dateTime=="10/11/18(Thu)23:22:33")

Not >>11917784 , but I will say that the man would have to do some fantastic logical acrobatics in order to justify being pedophilic while condoning child rape and pornography. Unless, of course, he accepts that that’s the way he is even if he knows it’s wrong."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11919458 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)00:56:11" && image=="sotoseek.png")

"I'm fascinated by this guy. I think of him as a "world leading expert in sexual abuse", or as the most open (yet strangely cryptic) journalist of sadism - and I think it's important to give him that type of space, because otherwise, it could become somewhat vulgar, or, worse - postmodern (which I'm fairly sure he's the complete opposite of).
About the zines/interviews and audio material - and this could be an entirely skewed reading for modern Sotos, going by how he has supposedly disowned the zines, how opposed he is to distribution of his content, and how intellectually-rigorous his recent work seems to be - I mostly read these in regards to how they satiate a need for this type of violent content, particularly while staying on legal grounds. It's very pure, honest, and direct. In a way, not much to it beyond the senses, but they also have instances of more complex ideas going on (there are some tracks on Waitress which are 10 min of a 15~ sec loop of some children saying innocent things).
About his other ("more elaborate") books - only familiar with Lordotics, which I'm halfway through, and I really don't suggest starting with it. It's one of the most complicated works I've encountered. The most I take from it, is the sheer "advancedness" it has. It seems to me, he's on another level, where he's so deep into the "transgression" rabbit hole (he's done and read everything, probably), it's like only himself understands it.
Yeah, it's incredible how it has eluded the Internet for so long, but, actually - someone uploaded these rarities on Soulseek earlier this year. No idea where it came from, but I've been searching for years and I never saw these before. I PMed the people who first had it, and none of them got back to me.

Last - somewhat related. I found a bw photograph on Tumblr which depicts two seemingly underage girls drawn to a penis, with cum on their mouths. It looks like it's from a Sotos zine, but I didn't find it on any of the ones I have. I believe it could constitute CP (although it has an academical caption , has been reblogged, and is still hosted), so I'm not sure how sharing it works, but it's on this blog:"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11919501 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)01:07:09")

"cont. >>11919458
Nevermind, apparently it's from an art installation by an artist named Lutz Bacher: I'm still very intrigued in regards to how context works here in regards to legality, assuming the photo does in fact depict children."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11919551 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)01:23:03")

Do you know what countries has the exhibit been held in? As far as 4chan is concerned, their CP policy reflects that of U.S. law."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11919574 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)01:32:46")

Well, I did a bit of reading, and I haven’t explicitly heard that the women in the picture are of age, but I do get the vibe that this is a fairly well known exhibit in the world of photography. With that said, it’s probably fine."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11919598 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)01:41:22")

Just read his magazines and get a feel for him. They're pretty great if you're into morbid shit which you probably are considering you are even contemplating reading Sotos."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11919622 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)01:53:02")

Yeah, I gather that much too. Probably some trickery via 18+ people who resemble children (which is interesting context-wise in itself)."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11919632 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)01:58:14")

Yeah those girls are definitely not underage.
t. knower"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11919972 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)03:59:11")

How bizarre that after her death, the two main camps of Dworkin readers are neo second wave feminists and Peter Sotos fans. Her fiction is pretty harrowing and even though her essays are often ridiculous, it's hard not to appreciate the blunt impact of her prose.

The end of her life seems like it was terribly sad. She had to know she was dying, and between her abandonment by the feminist movement and general befuddlement at the rape claim, any legacy she had was in flames. Her characteristic rage is still present in her autobiography but at the same time the tone is one of exhaustion and even reminds me of Sotos at his more reflective."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11920321 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)06:50:29")

>is the disclaimer related to its legality, to it being possibly disgusting, or to being kinda bad? if the former...
Disclaimer in that it's a bad place to start. Unless you live somewhere with fucked up press laws, the only Sotos thing that could get you in trouble is that infamous Pure issue."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11921169 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)12:11:06" && image=="puke.jpg")

"watched a kind of lecture he gave on YT not too long ago. he talks very avoidant and cryptic about his ultimate 'view'.
from what i've read i think what he gets across is that by repetitious recreation of horrible, brutal events (via his cut ups of media excerpts, police interviews, confessions, etc) the 'facts' of the event are dispersed and become distant from their origin consequently putting into question the intentional origin of said events, the identities of the subjects involved and the complicity of various witnesses and confessors. i think it's more an interrogation on the insufficiency of experience than pedo defence, much like dennis cooper. he's similar to bataille, using an extreme limit to further his thoughts
(also, the dude has lost heaps of weight in comparison to OPs picture)"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11921335 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)12:52:09")

Watching the one interview I found of him on Youtube he comes across like a total neurotic. Cringing at himself and apologizing before he even gets started. Kind of dissapointed since I'd rather he be the edgy weirdo he sounds like in his writing rather than just an autist who wanted to be provocative."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11921386 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)13:03:31")

He seems weirdly personable in this video.
I'm guessing he just gets nervous speaking in more formal situations like that one in Paris. I'm not sure why you'd expect different though. His writing is full of self-loathing and somebody who spends over 30 years on this stuff in his capacity probably isn't going to be the most well-adjusted person on earth. I also don't know where you're getting that he wants to be provocative. Beyond the fact that he claims otherwise, who is he out to provoke, the same few hundred people who've been buying his books for years?"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11922011 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)15:42:02")

What is that, I really couldn't understand the existence of it."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11922972 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)18:46:40")

It's this alternative art collective that functions as an editorial/music label/literary circle for artists all about themes of childhood and sex and all the depraved shit Sotos does. I know about it cuz of two dudes, one being photographer and head of the editorial Michael Salerno, and my favorite writer Dennis Cooper, who has published some stuff there too. Sotos sometimes has published pieces with them too."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11924090 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)23:08:46")

"Would anyone happen to have a pdf of the Apocalypse Culture II piece he did?";

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11924247 && dateTime=="10/12/18(Fri)23:47:17")

"where could i find any or his stuff? are they all scanned pdfs?";

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11924505 && dateTime=="10/13/18(Sat)01:19:13")


if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11924557 && dateTime=="10/13/18(Sat)01:39:41")

Ironic that stern tries to moralize considering how sleazy and trashy his show is"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11924866 && dateTime=="10/13/18(Sat)04:01:03")

"If you're looking for somewhere to start with him the cd he published with the proxy collection is up on youtube:
Peter Sotos - Proxy Full Album:

He also cowrote a book with jamie gillis about gonzo pornography that I think is still in print. It's called pure filth. Beyond that you could probably find proxy, which is a collection of his earlier works, for sale on ebay for around $50-$150."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11925281 && dateTime=="10/13/18(Sat)07:24:25")

No, but if you've read Tick, a bunch of it is redundant (I'm not sure which was published first). I remember a chunk of it being about JonBenet Ramsey and how a TV movie used a full-size recreation of her naked body for an autopsy scene."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11925356 && dateTime=="10/13/18(Sat)08:00:16")

99% of Sotos readers tend to be chicks, I wonder why."

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11925790 && dateTime=="10/13/18(Sat)10:39:35")

the only other Sotos reader I know is a gay hispanic guy but I've noticed that"

if(Anonymous && title=="" && postNumber==11926096 && dateTime=="10/13/18(Sat)12:06:02")

Actually? Have you just noticed this personally or is there proof of the majority of his readers being female?"