'>>22598090
Athrun is hot.';

'>>22598090';

'Cagashinn is the real OTP.';

'>>22598192
Why Cagalli and Shinn together?';

'>>22598192
Does Shinn still bully her?';

'Athrun's wet dream';

'Making out in the middle of battle';

'>that monthly gunpla manga drawn by a female Shinnfag will end in the 53rd chapter
It's over...
I know she's probably too happy with SEED FREEDOM movie but surely she could have dragged it out a bit, right...';

'>>22598192
>everywhere else on the internet: AsuCaga

>/m/: Kira/Cagalli and Shinn/Cagalli';

'>>22598467
Fukuda claims they made up offscreen.';

'>>22598630
Maybe the series ends with her buying a ton of Destiny Spec 2s in bulk.';

'Does anyone know where I can find the seed fandisc? Torrents on TT are dead';

'https://twitter.com/SEED_HDRP/status/1783330090362830943';

'undefined';

'>>22599015
Where are Athrun and Lacus?';

'>>22599017
Relics of a bygone era.';

'>>22599024
Not like this.';

'This place is really calm comparing to outside where Jesus Yamatofags everywhere seeth at the revealation that Athrun > Kira in fighting skill LMAO.';

'>>22599031
Kira was a self-insert power fantasy character before they became mainstream. The only difference unlike most of the others is that Kira has only one girlfriend.';

'>>22599031
No one cares.
Kira is still the greatest.';

'Fukuda, and SEED Freedom LN Writer surely hate Gundam 00 for sure, shitting on stopping war with war, and trashing Kira, and Lacus' actions in late SEED, and the whole SEED Destiny.';

'>>22599149
I hate 00 too for the retarded S2 and the ayyliens ex machina in the movie.';

'>>22599149
If this was so important, then they should have put this in the actual movie';

'>>22599180
Fukuda is all about style over substance. He doesn't give a fuck about the story so long as his favorite characters get to be awesome.';

'>>22599180
They'll likely extend the ending for the BD release.';

'I just remembered Hilda and Zola have the same voice actress.';

'>>22599149
To be honest...I don't read Gundam novels. They always feel like the writer is desperately trying to "patch up" holes in the anime and doing damage control. Not interested in them.

The Gundam Novels never feels like they actually EXPAND the universe or add to the lore. It's completely opposite to something like Halo novels where the books play a crucial role to the story and have very important events happen in the book.';

'>>22599195
>>22599200
>>22599180

It was also designed to be the complete closing chapter of SEED. They didn't expect it to be so popular that they're trying to figure out what to do next. Hell all Fukuda really wants to do is an OVA to fill out a minor bit that happened before the movie. So ending the story on a "but things are still seriously fucked now what are they gonna do" ending would imply they had more planned which at the time they didn't.';

'>>22599210
And Cutey Honey and Angel Blade.';

'>>22599149
So with Kira and Lacus MIA who's going to lead COMPASS?';

'>>22599579
We will never know because they won't make a sequel.';

'>>22599579
Athrun';

'>>22599570
>Hell all Fukuda really wants to do is an OVA to fill out a minor bit that happened before the movie.

Someone at Bandai needs to slap Fukuda upside the head and tell him that making a prequel OVA about Freedom getting stolen is not important. Seed is immensely popular and we need an anime that can make sense of all the crazy stuff happening in the Seed world.

This is like if Tomino wanted to make a prequel OVA about Amuro's father building the original Gundam instead of Tomino making Zeta Gundam. WTF.';

'>>22599615
Is the thing about the OVA showing Shinn's change in attitude from Destiny to Freedom true? I think that is something I would actually want to see and maybe actually show him patching things up with Cagalli, Mu, and the other characters instead of just saying in a tweet that he became friends with them offscreen.';

'>>22599638
I doubt it. The hijack happened at most a few months before the film and I doubt Shinn took a year working with all these people before getting around to those issues.';

'Taicho...';

'>>22599660
Taicho nani?';

'>>22599615
He doesn't want to make anything without the main characters so he's kind of stuck.';

'>>22599660';

'>>22599615
Why would only Freedom be stolen? Why not Infinite Justice?';

'Believe...
...Realize...
...Reason...
....Result...
...Reborn...';

'>>22599705
Foundation is implied to have been behind the theft to damage/get data on it because Kira was expected to be their main obstacle. Only Shura really cared about Athrun.';

'>>22599573
Oh, she's Mao and Riza too. Which Riza is she?';

'>>22599766
The 2003 anime Riza.';

'undefined';

'>>22599794
Should've posted the Huckebein Mk.II under Gintama. Poor Sugita's never gonna get to be a proper Gundam pilot, is he?';

'https://twitter.com/BANDAIFN/status/1783333377149706246';

'undefined';

'>>22599734
Not that anon but This just sounds weird. When I first heard this Freedom hijack rumor I thought it was just another way for Orphee to show off to Lacus and show how much better his MS were compared to Kira's Freedom. It was nice to have a rival nation that could still make suits that could defeat Orb and Terminal designs. Now you are telling me they just stole Strike Freedom to make a bunch of Strike Freedom clones with a different skin? Ew.';

'undefined';

'In a battle of pink-haired love interests, how does Lacus stack up to Haman-sama and that girl from 00 nobody cares about?';

'>>22595743
Anons have already pitched, multiple times, a new Seed anime being directed by Gen Urobuchi
>>22599705
>>22599734
It's an homage to Mars Zeon stealing the F90';

'>>22600040
I would love to see Tomino's take on Gundam Seed.';

'>>22600040
I want a new Seed anime written by Toshiki Inoue or directed by Hideaki Anno.';

'>>22600076
Inoue thinks anime is blow him';

'>>22600091
But he wrote anime like Death Note, the Toei YGO series, Galaxy Angel and the 2010 Iron Man anime.';

'>>22600012
I want to know why SEED never had an expy of Sayla or Mineva
How has it been 2 series and a movie, and still no fem-Rau?';

'>>22599615

UC is immensely popular too, and yet the last movie we got of that was an extended adaptation of a lost episode from the original series.';

'>>22600102
Because Kira is the Char and Athrun is the Amuro, so that means, Cagalli IS Sayla.';

'>>22600120
I can't believe Kira was a Char this whole time.';

'>>22600120
If anything Kira is like a heroic version of Carozzo Ronah';

'>>22600194
>Kira is the "man in the Iron Mask"
I'd only accept it if he was played by Leonardo DiCaprio during his younger years.';

'>>22599854
>Now you are telling me they just stole Strike Freedom to make a bunch of Strike Freedom clones with a different skin? Ew.
Yeah totally like they've never done that before in other continuities...';

'>>22599221

>They always feel like the writer is desperately trying to "patch up" holes in the anime and doing damage control. Not interested in them.

Traditionally, they're just adaptations that expand on worldbuilding.';

'>>22600201
What is that? V Gundam? Never watched it. Tomino told me not to and said he was ashamed of it. My point is that I think the bad guy faction should at least have some originality to make them unique. Are you telling me Black Knights are basically like A-Heads grunt units from Gundam 00? Where it's an actual Gundam frame but they changed it cosmetically on the outside? Are all Black Knights the Strike Freedom frame but modded on the outside to look different?';

'>>22600213
That's the RF90, the stolen and customized version of the Gundam F90 by Oldsmobile Corps/Mars Zeon
Given the similarities between F91 and GSF, FH referencing the F90 manga is a given';

'So after seeing the movie and Athrun piloting Freedom, does anyone else think that Athrun would have been a great pilot for Legend Gundam? Probably better than Rey.';

'Again, let me give flak to the kissing scenes of Gundam SEED for adding cheesy one-liners before the kiss.';

'>>22599854
Not the Black Knight Squad's regular units, they were the ones that defeated Strike Freedom in the first place so they were clearly built before the incident. Orphee's mobile suit though it's clearly just a knock off Strike Freedom with bigger guns and the Foundations armor tech and drone network. They probably built it off of the data they got from that incident.';

'>>22600248
A reason he's able to pilot the Strike Freedom is because the Legend is originally meant for him... Did he use the SF2's DRAGOONs?';

'>>22600270

He does.';

'How angry fanbase could be If Kira breaks up with Lacus in next SEED series?';

'>>22600508
It would only be maddening if the replacement was a female Rau clone';

'>>22600102
Are Banana and Mineva in Unicorn based on Kira and Lacus?';

'>>22600552
Mineva was already an established character in MSG and Zeta, so no';

'>>22600559

>Mineva was already an established character in MSG and Zeta, so no

But Mineva wasn't a teenager in those entries (an infant in MSG and eight years old in Z Gundam), let alone able to put her foot down politically (she was a puppet to Haman's schemes in Z Gundam).

In Unicorn, she harkens to Relena-esque princess characters but her relationship with Banagher, and his reluctance to kill anyone, veers into Kira.';

'>>22598090
Kill shitposters. Behead shitposters. Roundhouse kick a shitposter into the concrete. Slam dunk a shitposter baby into the trashcan. Crucify filthy shitposters. Defecate in a shitposters food. Launch shitposters into the sun. Stir fry shitposters in a wok. Toss shitposters into active volcanoes. Urinate into a shitposter gas tank. Judo throw shitposters into a wood chipper. Twist shitposters heads off. Report shitposters to the IRS. Karate chop shitposters in half. Curb stomp pregnant shitposters. Trap shitposters in quicksand. Crush shitposters in the trash compactor. Liquefy shitposters in a vat of acid. Eat shitposters. Dissect shitposters. Exterminate shitposters in the gas chamber. Stomp shitposter skulls with steel toed boots. Cremate shitposters in the oven. Lobotomize shitposters. Mandatory abortions for shitposters. Grind shitposter fetuses in the garbage disposal. Drown shitposters in fried chicken grease. Vaporize shitposters with a ray gun. Kick old shitposters down the stairs. Feed shitposters to alligators. Slice shitposters with a katana.

Total. Shitposter. Death.';

'>>22600040
I'm ignorant when it comes to directors, what are Urobuchi's strengths? SEED is my favourite anime and I feel like it's strength are in the characters (it's probably an unpopular opinion in this board) so a director like Fukuda who only cares about action has me worried for the future of the franchise.';

'>>22600785
I don't think Urobochi works at all. His works are very very cynical.

Anyone who wants SEED to be directed by Urobutcher is just a hater who has fanfiction boners over Kira/Lacus deaths.';

'>>22600814
>>22600785
Yep, Urobuchi doesn't think twice if he needs to kill a character.

The closest thing to Gundam he's done is Aldnoah Zero.';

'https://twitter.com/fumiko1029/status/1783866835475312844';

'>>22600508
I want to see Rau hatefuck Kira.';

'>>22600833';

'>>22600814
Do you have any director in mind? I don't mind a cynical approach to be honest and regarding deaths I feel like FREEDOM was the last opportunity to kill off Kira and Lacus, I was very worried when the Saragiwa no Romantics artwork dropped because I thought it would actually happen.

>>22600822
About Aldnoah Zero, it feels like one of the few "recent" mecha shows people on this board don't shit on all the time, is it any good?';

'>>22600854
I thought people hated it because the main character was a Gary Stu who wins all the time.';

'undefined';

'>>22600863
Could be, I have no idea but it's probably true, most of the times I see people talk well about Slaine when it comes to the characters.';

'>>22600822
>Aldnoah Zero
Urobuchi fucked off after the first season of that anime IIRC';

'What are you thoughts on these guys? Back in Destiny, I hated them since they had no personality other than being Lacus' cheerleading squad. I don't think they were as bad in the movie even if two of them died, and the novel at least tried to give them individual personalities.';

'>>22600921
The movie somehow salvaged them and made people somewhat like them. Pretty impressive. Though I do wonder why they ditched the Doms and their whole formation style fighting as a result which at least was unique in Destiny.';

'>>22600863
The problem is they were setting him up to be a Kira or Lelouch (ie, a super popular character who would be the shows entire draw) and people weren't feeling it so the staff kept doubling down on him and pushing out the other more popular characters in desperation to make him the next Kirito. Which never happened.';

'>>22600270
>A reason he's able to pilot the Strike Freedom is because the Legend is originally meant for him... Did he use the SF2's DRAGOONs?
Yes he does. He had no issues using Strike Freedom or any of its weapons at all. Which is why anon asked about Athrun using Legend Gundam';

'>>22600920
It was more of the Boku no Pico writer's brainchild than Urobuchi's.';

'>>22600937
>Though I do wonder why they ditched the Doms and their whole formation style fighting as a result which at least was unique in Destiny.
Couple guesses

1. The Doms were Terminal tech and returned to Terminal after the war. Like Infinite Justice went back to Terminal. And SF was put into storage.

2. When Compass was created, Lacus wanted everyone to use the suits donated to the organization. So the new suits and new ships could be a symbol of every nation working together. And Not their old suits

3. Compass agreed to test new suits for ZAFT and Orb and AF (which they never made any).';

'>>22600942
Inaho would've worked if he was more like Kira in his personal relationships.';

'>>22601003
I just love that unlike Kira, Inaho didn't get the princess in his story.';

'https://twitter.com/bnfw_en/status/1783934072877621382';

'>>22601097
No more Ed, Edd n Eddy jokes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8of1GoOB-eI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HX5SIEXIOo';

'Compass is done. World governments lost faith in the organization. The last known action was them stealing Millennium and being declared renegades.

The only way they can continue operating is if Millennium becomes a pirate or rogue ship. Being supported behind the scenes by Terminal and Orb.

Shinn would be Team Leader for Mobile suits team. Destiny Gundam gets famous for continuously attacking and stopping conflicts.';

'>>22601206
Sounds like a CE version of Crossbone.';

'>>22601206
>>22601215

If Cosmic Era is to be continued beyond SEED Freedom, who can threathen world peace at this point by regniting Natural-Coordinator tensions? With or without the SEED Freedom novels, Blue Cosmos is spent so how to make a new antagonist for Cosmic Era be a believable threat?';

'>>22601271
>Blue Cosmos is spent
Why do people keep saying this? Blue Cosmos is not like Zeon or its remnants. They pull their ranks and hardware from Earth Alliance stock.
If they could do significant damage with defectors, old MS and non-official support, imagine what would happen if there's an actual constituency asking to do something against the "monsters from space". With Foundation's destruction of Moscow, anti-Coordinator sentiment on Earth among the populace is stronger than ever.';

'>>22601313
>Why do people keep saying this?
Agreed. It makes no sense. I guess it's novel readers but it doesn't match to what the movie shows us.';

'>>22601271
Foundation and their Super Duper Ultra Coordinators just nuked Moscow. I think Blue Cosmos is going to get a huge surge in recruitment and support.';

'>>22601318
Novel or no novel, the plot is clear that the world situation is much worse than what it was before, when COMPASS could put a lid on things. Even if the Millennium defeated Foundation and the ZAFT coup, Earth and PLANT are no longer in speaking terms to put something like COMPASS back again.
Add to this the instability triggered by the capital of a major power being wiped off the map.';

'>>22601322
And to be honest, most of the work was done by Kira in Freedom. I don't think Lunamaria in a Gelgoog would be able to defeat a Destroy Gundam.';

'>>22601324
The actions of a handful of aces are inconsequential from a strategic standpoint. ZAFT could build a nuclear-powered Destiny Impulse and have Lunamaria blast Destroys left and right, and it still would not matter: the world situation is that fucking awful. Even COMPASS was only there to put out sporadic fires, creating a veneer of stability that was broken the second that ZAFT's leader went ahead and mounted a pre-planned coup to take advantage of the panic.
What nobody understands in this story, not even Lacus, is that they can't shoot their way to "understanding each other". Axis in CCA was stopped by humanity's collective will resonating on the Psychoframe. The amount of mutual hatred running in the Cosmic Era, however, is strong enough to invoke one of the Chaos Gods.';

'>>22601342
>The actions of a handful of aces are inconsequential from a strategic standpoint.
They are absolutely a strategic asset. Fukuda has made Seed all about single Aces who could turn the tide of entire battles. It's from him growing up watching Super Robot shows in the 70s and 80s.';

'>>22601365
>They are absolutely a strategic asset. Fukuda has made Seed all about single Aces who could turn the tide of entire battles.
They can stop wars singlehandedly, but are they preventing further conflict in any conceivable way?
If anything, you could argue that their actions only make things worse.';

'fuukaku aisuru...';

'>>22601460
Do you just post random lyrics for some reason?';

'>>22601342
>What nobody understands in this story, not even Lacus, is that they can't shoot their way to "understanding each other".

Kira understands this, his reasoning vs Rau and talk with Shinn is proof of this';

'>>22601487
He might have a grasp of the concept in the abstract, but the only thing he knows how to do (and does) is to shoot at things.

>his reasoning vs Rau
We've been through this. His words against Rau and Durandal are empty falsehoods. He might believe he's not defined by his genes, but the shows prove that to be the case over and over.

>and talk with Shinn
Horseshit.

Look at me, talking about fictional characters as if they had wills of their own';

'>>22601552
>We've been through this. His words against Rau and Durandal are empty falsehoods. He might believe he's not defined by his genes, but the shows prove that to be the case over and over.
Only edgelords think Rau's monologue means anything but Cope.';

'undefined';

'>>22601319
>>22601271
You could also have a faction that's managed to create hybrid pilots';

'>>22601569
"Hybrid" in which sense?';

'>>22601571
Half human half coordinator';

'>>22601572
What's the benefit there for piloting? The CE is Naturals < Coordinators < Accords';

'>>22600270
>>22600968
IIRC, SF and Legend had some new fangled computer system that allows non 'spatially aware' pilots (IE: Kira, La Flaga family) to use remote control weapons. The system existing at all was a moot point in Destiny because SF and Legend were piloted by Kira and Rey respectively, but it does open the door to Athrun/Shinn using those suits without issues.
Also IIRC, Destiny's beam boomerangs were retconned to being mini DRAGOONs as well.';

'>>22601569
>Lacus and Kira's daughter is some straight up God tier pilot without trying.

I want a series of this.';

'>>22601576
Eliminates the need for cloning and provides better genetic stability';

'>>22601367
If a super powered test tube baby in a nuclear powered mobile suit is enough to stop a war, imagine a fleet of them stomping other countries. Although I've just described Foundation, so imagine Foundation if they weren't retarded.';

'>>22601583
Take it with a grain of salt, but one of Fukuda's ideas for the movie was an entire army of Kira clones (idea stolen from a Kamen Rider show).';

'>>22601582
What does that have to do with PILOTING?! A half-Coordinator pilot would be necessarily half as good as a full Coordinator, with all the mods from birth.';

'bokutachi wa
mayoinagara
tadoritsuku basho o sagashitsuzuke';

'>>22601342
You can't force people to like each other, and UC shows there will always been conflict. The heroes jobs are just to stop super villain types like Rau and Orphee, and prevent genocide which they do an effective job at.';

'>>22601600
STOP DOING THIS SHIT!
Are you that one frogposter that keeps making those shit threads?';

'>>22601552
>Look at me, talking about fictional characters as if they had wills of their own

Nothing wrong with that, it's good to have passions

I said that because both his talk to Shinn and his comebacks to Rau essentially boil down to "it's better to struggle for a better future fighting" and not "by shooting down the bad guys we'll have peace"';

'>>22601604
>You can't force people to like each other
No, but there comes a point where they acknowledge their basic shared humanity. That's the message in CCA, X and 00.
SEED, on the other hand, constantly refuses to do this. Naturals and Coordinators are seemingly condemned to hate and fight and kill each other forever.

>>22601612
>I said that because both his talk to Shinn and his comebacks to Rau essentially boil down to "it's better to struggle for a better future fighting"
Kira in Freedom acknowledges that just doing that is a dead end.

>and not "by shooting down the bad guys we'll have peace"
But that's precisely what Kira was doing all this time. He acknowledges it himself during his breakdown after Lacus is kidnapped. It's obvious in hindsight he never cared about anything except having her love and making her happy. In modern terms, he's a simpleton';

'>>22601618
>But that's precisely what Kira was doing all this time. He acknowledges it himself during his breakdown after Lacus is kidnapped.

I'm probably not getting your point (it's 5AM where I'm from...) but I didn't deny the fact that Kira is just fighting. My point is that he doesn't believe just him fighting alone will end this cycle of hatred.

>It's obvious in hindsight he never cared about anything except having her love and making her happy. In modern terms, he's a simpleton

It's something I always believed: Kira is selfish, he only cares about Lacus and the world is something he's protecting just because she's in it.
Whenever Lacus is on his side he's invincible while when she's not (Freedom vs Impulse and the first fight with Foundation) he loses focus.';

'>>22601635
>My point is that he doesn't believe just him fighting alone will end this cycle of hatred.
And my point is that he doesn't do anything to break the cycle (for instance, stepping aside and stop being Superman). It's empty words coming from him.';

'>>22601639
I agree with you on this then, what I disagreed was just you initially saying the shooting to understanding each other part.

>And my point is that he doesn't do anything to break the cycle (for instance, stepping aside and stop being Superman).

By stepping aside do you mean having faith in others like in Freedom or leaving the battlefield entirely?';

'>>22601653
>having faith in others like in Freedom
The only "others" he shows any faith towards are his teammates, with whom he had fought together in the past. Athrun, to be precise. The story is very condensed as it is, but we never really see Kira interacting, or having any chemistry, with other characters. The thing with Shinn is pathetically one-sided.

>or leaving the battlefield entirely
That too. The point of him being Liutenant General Yamato, COMPASS' Super Ace, means that nobody else has to do much of anything. The story never questions itself "why is the peace of the world an exclusive responsibility for Kira, Lacus and Cagalli?"';

'>>22601579
>non 'spatially aware' pilots (IE: Kira, La Flaga family)
You have it backwards, they're more spatially aware than normal coordinators and they'll perform a country mile better that the person who have just an average spatial awareness like Athrun or Shinn';

'https://twitter.com/t_features/status/1783781072284926194';

'>>22601658
>The only "others" he shows any faith towards are his teammates, with whom he had fought together in the past. Athrun, to be precise. The story is very condensed as it is, but we never really see Kira interacting, or having any chemistry, with other characters. The thing with Shinn is pathetically one-sided.

Yeah I know, when I said like in Freedom I just meant after Kira's breakdown, after all he tries to handle everything on his own at the start.

>That too. The point of him being Liutenant General Yamato, COMPASS' Super Ace, means that nobody else has to do much of anything. The story never questions itself "why is the peace of the world an exclusive responsibility for Kira, Lacus and Cagalli?"

Do you have any ideas how to fix this or do you think the SEED setting is unrepairable? I'm genuinely curious, I hope I don't sound condescending';

'>>22601670
>Do you have any ideas how to fix this or do you think the SEED setting is unrepairable? I'm genuinely curious, I hope I don't sound condescending
Story-wise, there's dozens of possibilities out there, big and small, cheap and sophisticated, to pull the CE out of its evident rut. Put a menace that forces the world to act together. Have a scientist create a formula that makes Naturals as good as Coordinators, eliminating the need for bigotry. Or just do a small-scale story like Stargazer did.
The problem lies at the head and base of it all: both the creator and the fans aren't interested in anything except Kira and Lacus being the almighty heroes that save the world single-handedly and with little sacrifice in the end. Even the rest of the cast is just doing their rote roles (Murrue is the captain, Mwu tanks a big laser, Lunamaria can't snipe for shit), without even a possibility of any of them ever getting killed for real. Under such a scenario, there's no way to create any real drama.';

'>>22601659
Right, sorry, I fucked up my wording.
Kira and the La Flagas have enhanced spatial awareness, and don't need the computer assist for DRAGOONs.
Athrun, Shinn, etc, do need the computer assist.';

'>>22601682
>Put a menace that forces the world to act together
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4puOc_7RfQ';

'>>22601795
Too late for that. Disney jumped the gun already.';

'>>22601785
Athrun didn't seem to have any issues using Strike Freedom Spec II Dragoons in the movie.';

'>>22601579
>IIRC, SF and Legend had some new fangled computer system that allows non 'spatially aware' pilots
I believe that system was already installed in Chaos Gundam earlier in the anime.';

'>>22601579
>>22601659
>>22601870
Quantum communication, or something like that. Sting could use the weapon pods on the Chaos fairly normally, and those weapon pods also share a similar model number with the DRAGOONs on the SF.';

'undefined';

'Why don't they have other colors besides green for beams? It's kind of weird when both sides are shooting green beams. At least make one side have slightly different colors.';

'>>22601910
That's not how it works. This isn't GI Joe. They're all based on the same kind of beam weapon technology (as the concept is universal in the setting) and that happens to fire green beams. They can't just tweak a few settings to get different color beams like a Star Wars lightsaber.';

'Again the issue is that most fans don't care about the setting as a whole just the specific characters in it. If they're gonna bother with SEED they'll need to use the usual cast. Otherwise they might as well just make a new AU if they're gonna have a new cast anyway. Other than the Coordinators (which have pretty much been treated like generic Gundam colony people since Destiny anyway) there's really nothing unique to the setting they couldn't do in a new made up Gundam AU.';

'>>22601658
>Cagalli?
She is not, why would Orb leader, neutral country leader responsible for world peace, even Orb policy is not to interfere other countries conflict, she is just doing it in her own because she also wants to see world in peace but they won't blame or search for her if there are wars Compass could happen because Plant and EA involved if Orb alone they won't be allowed';

'>>22601970
Buster Gundam fires yellow beams though. Im pretty sure Calamity, Raider, and Forbidden Gundam shoot yellow beams too.';

'>>22601682
>The problem lies at the head and base of it all: both the creator and the fans aren't interested in anything except Kira and Lacus

Seed can continue. Just introduce a new cast or more people. Fans may dislike it at first but they will grow to like it over time.

Have Kira be semi-permanently retired. Like how Kamille retired after Zeta Gundam. Kira can keep Mighty Strike Freedom locked away for home defense like the OG Freedom';

'>>22602041
First of all, your English is still complete garbage. This language has ARTICLES and POSSESSIVES, you moron.
Putting that aside...

>even Orb policy is not to interfere other countries conflict
> if there are wars Compass could happen because Plant and EA involved
That would prevent Orb from participating in COMPASS in the first place. Mwu and Murrue are Orb officers on secondment. Also, this is a thing Fukuda has said in interviews. Cagalli founded COMPASS, not Lacus:
>—How was the organization itself formed?
>FUKUDA: Cagalli did it. [...] as a precondition, Cagalli's initiative is a must.

https://twitter.com/Char_Tweet/status/1780958441974157779
>FUKUDA: She started wearing the ring (in a chain across the neck) around the time she founded COMPASS.
So, yes, the plot makes it clear that the peace of the world rests on her shoulders as well.';

'>>22602059
>Just introduce a new cast or more people. Fans may dislike it at first but they will grow to like it over time.
"Just" doesn't cut it here. The director wouldn't go for it and the fans wouldn't accept it. Fucking hell, Destiny tried exactly that and was obviously backtracked after the first cour.
Like it or not, SEED is its core cast of characters, without much room for anyone new except a handful of villains that get wiped out, and some random bridge bunnies.

>Like how Kamille retired after Zeta Gundam.
Kamille didn't "retire". He got his brain fried in the battle against Scirocco.

>Kira can keep Mighty Strike Freedom locked away for home defense like the OG Freedom
And then he pops back in and steals the show again.';

'>>22602066
So she's a hypocrite. Just like her father. Orb is a neutral nation. But her father secretly allied with the Earth Alliance and helped build the Gundams and Archangel. Then got surprised when ZAFT attacked them.';

'>>22602073
>The director wouldn't go for it and the fans wouldn't accept it. Fucking hell, Destiny tried exactly that and was obviously backtracked after the first cour.
What are you talking about? The fans generally liked the first 15 episodes of Seed Destiny. It was well received. Ratings were great. No one was upset at the new cast.

The only sketchy thing was bringing back a fully rebuilt and pristine Freedom. Even though the suit Freedom was nearly destroyed, charcoal, and radioactive at the end of Seed.';

'>>22602079
>The fans generally liked the first 15 episodes of Seed Destiny. It was well received. Ratings were great. No one was upset at the new cast.
Then why was the old cast given as much spotlight as the new characters if they were "well received"?

>radioactive
Again with this shit? That's not how radioactivity works. Otherwise, spacecraft would be contaminated when they come down to Earth after being exposed to cosmic rays.';

'undefined';

'>>22602087
>Then why was the old cast given as much spotlight as the new characters if they were "well received"?

There's a lot of behind the scenes drama that happened with Seed Destiny that tainted the show. Particularly surrounding Head Writer Morosawa, voice actors, and the animation team. But ratings was never an issue for Seed Destiny. It was always popular.

>Again with this shit?
Freedom was hit directly by a Genesis blast (a massive Gamma wave radiation nuclear energy beam). It literally irradiates the target. Also...it's a MIRACLE that Kira didn't pop into meat paste like every other person hit with Genesis.';

'>>22602074
>So she's a hypocrite.
Don't ask me how they square that circle. They just do.

>Orb is a neutral nation.
It wasn't when the Seirans were in charge. Countries can change their policies, you know. Even Sweden ended up joining NATO as of late.

>But her father secretly allied with the Earth Alliance and helped build the Gundams and Archangel.
If you believe Astray, that was concocted by the Sahaku twats. Uzumi just had to accept it as a done deal and resign from his official position after the Heliopolis debacle.';

'>>22602094
>If you believe Astray, that was concocted by the Sahaku twats. Uzumi just had to accept it as a done deal and resign from his official position after the Heliopolis debacle

That a pretty big change to the story. I can see why Fukuda does not like Astray and in his words say, "It isn't Seed". Although with that logic it makes it hard to accept the Seed novel too. You basically have a bunch of Directors, Writers, and Manga creators all arguing about what is accepted and what is not accepted.';

'>>22602092
>behind the scenes drama
>Morosawa, voice actors, and the animation team.
That's a very non-specific answer that doesn't explain why they sidelined the new characters. I've also heard that Bandai wasn't happy with the sales of the new Gundams, so they pushed Freedom as a known quantity.

>Freedom was hit directly by a Genesis blast
>it's a MIRACLE that Kira didn't pop into meat paste like every other person hit with Genesis.
It wasn't hit directly. Otherwise, it would've been vaporized in an instant like Providence was.

>It literally irradiates the target.
You know what else irradiates things? Cosmic rays. Or the Van Allen belts. Objects aren't contaminated if they're blasted with gamma rays. You need an actual substance that emits isotopes through a long period. What pollutes the ground after a nuclear bomb isn't the blast itself, but rather the active impurities left afterwards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_contamination';

'>>22602098
>That a pretty big change to the story.
It is not. Erica explains to Cagalli that "Uzumi-sama" didn't know about the Gundams being developed, to which she replies that it is no excuse.
After Heliopolis, Uzumi stepped down and his brother Homura took charge as de jure Representative.';

'>>22602103
>It wasn't hit directly. Otherwise, it would've been vaporized in an instant like Providence was.
Rewatch the scene again. Both of them were in front of the Genesis dish. Kira tries to fly away, but is caught by the Genesis beam too and is fried to a crisp.';

'>>22602121
Anon, let it go. I know you've been writing thousands of "Kira finally dies" fics on your shitty laptop.

Amuro would've been crushed by a rock that's many times bigger than his Gundam if not for the LETTER "T" (yes I know he died, but he should've died instantly)';

'>>22602129
I don't understand anything you wrote.';

'>>22602066
None of what you are trying to prove saying that Cagalli is responsible for world peace, the reason Lacus is responsible not because she found Compass but because The world believe in her guide, Kira is responsible because he killed Durandal and DP

Again Cagalli found Compass as her own choice moral to create world peace but she has no responsibility for the world peace herself

Also why is this topic offense you so much even call me moron';

'>>22602079
>Ratings were great
Rating kept getting worse until they bring back Kira though';

'>>22602103
Anon...that's a picture of Freedom. Not Providence. And it's on fire.';

'>>22602073
>And then he pops back in and steals the show again.
Somehow you've reminded me of that meme of every MMO player getting cucked by Kirito.';

'>>22602146
Yeah that's definitely Freedom Gundam and not Providence.

From the looks of it the Genesis beam is ripping off the outer layer of phase shift.

Kira should have died if we are being realistic but it doesn't bother me too much. No one dies in Seed unless you see the body directly get hit.

It was even worse in the Seed Freedom movie. Immortal Justice explodes in a huge fireball and Shinn just flies out of the explosion like it's no big deal.';

'>>22602185
Shinn's retard powers make him explosion proof.';

'>>22602054
>Buster Gundam fires yellow beams though.
I completely forgot about that.';

'>>22601970
from what I understand yellow beams = physical projectiles';

'They should re-name destiny sword to Durandal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durendal';

'https://twitter.com/candytoy_c/status/1783813400512098804';

'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1COBVex2aE';

'undefined';

'undefined';

'>>22602139
>not because she found Compass but because The world believe in her guide
Not "the world", just PLANT. She's not very relevant outside the world of Coordinators.

Also, this whole argument misses the point altogether. Like it or not, the only "good" guys in this setting are the handful of protagonists that come and save the day (plus support from Orb). Take them out of the equation and the world is just shooting at each other forever.
I mentioned Cagalli specifically because the interview >>22602066 marks her specifically as COMPASS' founder, but I could've made a list of all the main cast. So let's do that:
>Kira
>Lacus
>Athrun
>Cagalli
>Murrue
>Mwu
>Yzak
>Dearka
>Shinn
>Lunamaria
Plus the rest...
>Meyrin
>Hilda
>Neumann
>Murdoch
>Amagi
>Arthur';

'>>22602146
>Anon...that's a picture of Freedom. Not Providence. And it's on fire.
Yes, I know that. In case you didn't read the post, what I said is that, if the Genesis beam had impacted Freedom DIRECTLY, it would've been torn to pieces like Providence was in this shot.';

'>>22602896
You know that's not the full size Genesis beam. It expands and gets bigger. What do you think hit Freedom and was strong enough to rip apart the suit?';

'>>22602934
>You know that's not the full size Genesis beam. It expands and gets bigger.
Remember that the last shot was a misfire.

>What do you think hit Freedom and was strong enough to rip apart the suit?
The beam only grazed Freedom and burnt its outer armor layer, but it wasn't hit directly. Most of the damage (arm, head, leg) was incurred during the fight with Rau.
Going by the footage, what I think happened is that Genesis hit Freedom's back and only destroyed the wings in the backpack.';

'>>22602953
>Remember that the last shot was a misfire.
It wasn't a misfire. The beam fired normally, but was cut off after Justice exploded inside Genesis. Providence and Freedom were both hit by the initial Blast.

Freedom was caught by the Blast and was getting shredded apart. Freedom's armor somehow protected Kira long enough for the beam to cut off.

But Kira probably would have died had the blast lasted a few more seconds or Justice exploded a few seconds later.

Still Freedom should be radioactive with Gamma radiation.';

'>>22602964
>Still Freedom should be radioactive with Gamma radiation.
THAT IS NOT HOW RADIATION WORKS, YOU STUPID, STUPID, STUPID BASTARD!!!!!';

'>>22602965
Are you seriously trying to argue that natural radiation in space functions the same way as....a giant nuclear powered Gamma ray radiation death laser beam that can irradiate a planet with destruction?';

'>>22602972
>Are you seriously trying to argue that natural radiation in space functions the same way as....a giant nuclear powered Gamma ray radiation death laser beam that can irradiate a planet with destruction?
Yes, they do. A gamma ray beam cannot be radioactive by its nature, because it is electromagnetic in nature, not particulate.
https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/radiation.php#id--Types_of_Radiation
We could argue about bremsstrahlung (an effect of gamma radiation on dense materials, similar to spalling when an armored vehicle is hit by a HEAT warhead), but that's going to deep into the details.

>....
And stop it with the dumb ellipses. They're unnecessary and just makes you look like you're trying to create cheap drama.';

'>>22602965
You are missing the point by a huge fucking mile. Anyone hit by Genesis has their bodies inflate like a balloon and explode. Even inside radiation shielded ships and mobile suits. How the fuck is Kira still alive? Answer the original question numbnuts.';

'>>22603033
Because the beam did not hit Freedom DIRECTLY. You do understand what that means, right?
The balloon-popping effect in human bodies is inconsequential when anything that is affected by the beam gets blasted anyway.';

'>>22603043
>Because the beam did not hit Freedom DIRECTLY.
You are either hit by the Genesis effect or you aren't hit by it. There is no such thing as indirectly getting hit by Genesis. You are making that up.

>The balloon-popping effect in human bodies is inconsequential
Translation: "I don't know"';

'>>22603043
So what the heck is melting Freedom's armor and ripping apart the suit?

If it wasn't Genesis...then what was it?';

'>>22603056
>There is no such thing as indirectly getting hit by Genesis. You are making that up.
I am not. See >>22602103, where the beam is merely grazing Freedom. If it had received the full impact, it would've been destroyed like anything else in its path, such as Providence. This is not difficult to figure out.

>Translation: "I don't know"
Look at the fucking footage, please: https://youtu.be/f3RSGJz0sFk?t=196
First we see the bodies popping, only for everything else around them just exploding regardless.

>>22603063
>So what the heck is melting Freedom's armor and ripping apart the suit?
>If it wasn't Genesis...then what was it?
Fukuda has a thing to show everything in close-ups, but the best explanation we have is that Freedom was at the limit of the beam's radius, which caused critical damage but not full destruction. A full Genesis blast vaporizes anything, Phase Shifted or not.';

'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3lMLqgrNZE';

'>>22603043
I don't you understand what directly or indirectly means. Freedom was clearly hit by Genesis. The armor is melting off and the wings are ripping apart. The whole suit is being destroyed.';

'>>22603088
>The armor is melting off and the wings are ripping apart. The whole suit is being destroyed.
A Genesis blast isn't selective to just destroy some bits and pieces or "the armor barely holding on". Everything is torn to pieces or explodes, starting with humans boiling their internal organs. If that did not happen with Freedom, then it cannot be a direct hit.
I prefer arguing for a semi-logical explanation than the alternative, which is that Freedom is the only thing that was able to survive inside the Genesis beam and Kira was able to survive that "just because".';

'>>22600012
Hey I remember... Fi? Faye? Flay? Freya? Fia? Fi... her.';

'You're all missing a major piece of the puzzle. Genesis fires a nuclear powered beam from the dish into the little spindly mirror bit that's far in front of it which it what focuses and fires it into the gamma death ray wide burst that causes so much damage. That's the part that needs to be replaced every shot. Freedom and Providence were between the dish and the mirror, and what fired and hit Providence was the initial start up beam. Freedom boosts out of the way of that and what wrecks it is the backblast from the initial shot and Providence exploding. It never got to the gamma death ray level because Justice blew up and stopped the initial beam before it got to the dish.';

'>>22602098
Even in the original show Uzumi claims it was concocted by other elements and he didn't know, they just go unnamed in the show. Cagalli just says that she doesn't quite believe and and even if it was true he still screwed up for letting them do it behind his back.';

'>>22603506
Maybe Fukuda never intended for the question to be actually answered. Maybe he wanted the ambiguity to remain so we never known if Uzumi was telling the truth or if Cagalli was right and he was corrupt politician trying to avoid responsibility for getting caught and losing an entire Orb Colony.';

'>>22603489
>Freedom boosts out of the way of that and what wrecks it is the backblast from the initial shot and Providence exploding
This doesn't help your case at all. You are arguing that freedom was caught in TWO nuclear explosions. The first is the Gamma ray nuclear blast. The second is Providence exploding in a nuclear Atomic explosion. That's even worse than just getting hit by Genesis. Kira should be extra dead.';

'>>22603544
>The second is Providence exploding in a nuclear Atomic explosion.
That did not happen. Providence was vaporized by Genesis before it could explode. See >>22602896';

'>>22603506
>>22603514
>corrupt politician trying to avoid responsibility for getting caught and losing an entire Orb Colony.
He was forced to "resign" as Orb's Chief Representative after the destruction of Heliopolis. In quotes because, although his brother Homura is the leader in paper, everyone has deference to 'Uzumi-sama', who is the one calling all the shots.';

'>>22603544
I'm a different guy responding here.';

'>>22603506
>>22603514
>Maybe he wanted the ambiguity to remain so we never known if Uzumi was telling the truth
Erica Simmons confirms to Cagalli that Uzumi didn't know about what was going on in Heliopolis. The point of side-stories (in Gundam, those are usually MSVs) is to answer such ambiguities. Canon bickering aside, the closest we have to an answer is Astray, which pins the deal with the EA on the Sahaku pukes.
By the way, I detest Cagalli so much it's unreal.';

'>>22603570
So basically Uzumi is so incredibly incompetent at his job that he didn't know an on-going development weapons project was happening within his countries and siphoning tons of money, personnel, and resources.

AND no one at Orb'a Morganraete technology development division thought to tell Uzumi about the weapons development program. Not a SINGLE soul. Not even ERICA Simmons herself told Uzumi about it. But Erica acts like she doesn't have any responsibility either?

Yeah I agree with Cagalli. I would be suspicious too. Sorry not buying it.';

'>>22603582
Orb is fucking lucky that Kira and co. supports them, otherwise they would have been destroyed a long time ago.';

'>>22603582
>So basically Uzumi is so incredibly incompetent at his job that he didn't know an on-going development weapons project was happening within his countries
The leader of a country has more important things to do than to personally scrutinize every detail on the daily operations of a corporation. That's what the overall government is for.

>siphoning tons of money, personnel, and resources.
The EA was providing those.

>AND no one at Orb'a Morganraete technology development division thought to tell Uzumi about the weapons development program.
See above. It was a secret, illegal program. Are you going to run and tell the authorities and both get arrested and lose your job in the process?

>But Erica acts like she doesn't have any responsibility either?
She wasn't part of the G-Project in Heliopolis.';

'>>22603600
>The leader of a country has more important things to do than to personally scrutinize every detail on the daily operations of a corporation. That's what the overall government is for
The point is that the project was so large that there's no way it was 100% secret. If an external enemy likw ZAFT found out about the G project, then Uzumi should have know. He's the leader of the country.';

'undefined';

'>>22603600
The Seed character databooks say Erica was specifically part of the G-Project as Senior Engineer, and secretly used the data to built the Astray suits. She's guilty as the rest of them for not telling Uzumi.';

'>>22603570
>>22603582
>>22603600
>>22603514
>>22603506
The official website says:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050412011554/http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/ce/background/glossary_organizations.html#orb
>In Orb's complex political system, power is shared between an elected assembly and representatives of the five noble families who originally ruled over the islands. Its chief representative, Uzumi Nara Athha, declared the nation neutral at the beginning of the current conflict. However, there are policy disagreements among the noble families, and some of them are secretly assisting the Atlantic Federation with its Gundam development project in order to borrow its technology for Orb's own armed forces.
In other words, there was a political incentive to keep the project hidden from Uzumi.

>>22603605
>The point is that the project was so large that there's no way it was 100% secret
Says whom? The project was kept under wraps for six months.

>If an external enemy likw ZAFT found out about the G project, then Uzumi should have know. He's the leader of the country.
Why? You seem to misunderstand what the leader of a nation actually does. You think he's some sort of omniscient figure that must be aware of everything that is going on?
ZAFT had an incentive to receive intelligence from spies on Heliopolis.';

'>>22603621
>She's guilty as the rest of them for not telling Uzumi.
Are you stupid or something? Telling Uzumi means you are confessing to a crime, since the project was illegal as a breach of Orb's neutrality policy.';

'>>22603624
Well Uzumi found out later did he? Why wasn't Erica executed for treason?';

'>>22603635
>Well Uzumi found out later did he?
It's safe to assume he only found out after Heliopolis was destroyed, after which it was pointless to complain.

>Why wasn't Erica executed for treason?
In all likelihood, the Sahakus pulled rank and kept the Astray project under their protection.';

'>>22603624
>Are you stupid or something? Telling Uzumi means you are confessing to a crime, since the project was illegal as a breach of Orb's neutrality policy.

So you admit you were wrong then about her not being part of the G Project. Concession accepted.';

'>>22603643
Instead of being an asshole, you could post said "Seed character databook", because I'm not taking your word for it. These threads are full of utter bullshit, like that guy who was claiming the Narrative wasn't a Nu prototype earlier on.';

'>>22603622
>Why? You seem to misunderstand what the leader of a nation actually does. You think he's some sort of omniscient figure that must be aware of everything that is going on?
Erica reports directly to Uzumi. She betrayed Uzumi and her country. You aren't winning this argument that Uzumi didn't know, or that Erica didn't know.';

'>>22602892
>Not "the world", just PLANT. She's not very relevant outside the world of Coordinators.
Nah then you don't get it Plant is the CE equivalent to Murica, they are the source of conflict, that is why everyone need Lacus Clyne of their own

My question again who will blame Cagalli if the world is in Chaos? they will blame Kira because DP is not that bad but why did he kill Durandal and denied DP and he stole Freedom most powerful MS, has been using it for good use why does he not do anything this time? They will blame Lacus because she doesn't tell that coordinators to stop fighting they don't know who are right and wrong without Lacus to tell them, but Cagalli she is outsider that is why she make Compass so she can participate too and help Kira and Lacus but they won't blame her for anything. And all the other main cast members too just part of the people who helped they are not going to be blame. Kira and Lacus can't shake off that responsibilities from their shoulder they like it or not while Cagalli and the rest only feel responsible because they have the source and ability to help, for example even if Orb is taking the stance of not doing anything who will blame her?';

'>>22603659
>Erica reports directly to Uzumi.
Why does an engineer, even a high-ranking one, report directly to the leader of a country? It's like if Kelly Johnson had been Truman's direct subordinate.';

'>>22603667
I'm not even going to try to make sense of that word salad. Are you Bikini-Schizo?';

'>>22603672
If you have nothing better to say just silent

How can you accused of someone being meme schizo with that legit discussion?';

'>>22603707
>If you have nothing better to say just silent
Man, you really mangled up this way. Does your language have the verb "stay" in it?

>that legit discussion
It is impossible to even start to have a "discussion" on anything if people cannot understand what the fuck you are even saying:
>awful punctuation
>missing words
>terrible (sometimes non-existing) verb conjugations
Try again, pal.';

'>>22603733
>I don't want to discuss anything that seemingly discredit my favorite Cagalli';

'undefined';

'https://twitter.com/SUNRISEMusic_JP/status/1782967953375596841';

'https://twitter.com/SUNRISEMusic_JP/status/1783784804095524909
Seed Box';

'>>22603745
>I don't want to discuss anything that seemingly discredit my favorite Cagalli
What? Dude, I am >>22603570.
Rewatching the show for captures is irksome because she is so fucking stupid and annoying. What a detestable character; I don't get what all those people on JP Twitter see in her.';

'https://megahobby.jp/products/item/1003/';

'Always felt bad for Miller, for some reason. I have pretty much no pity for any of the rancid Naturals in SEED Destiny, but for some reason, I always feel so sorry for this one rando Phantom Pain pilot when he gets offed.';

'>>22603605
>>22603622

Only Rau knew, and he almost certainly found out about it from Azrael (who would have known due to his hooks in the EA higher ups) due to his double agent status. Patrick and the Zaft council didn't find out until he reported on it and Rau specifically didn't wait for authorization before making the attack claiming that they couldn't wait and that he'd be vindicated once the council was shown the Gundam's (which is what happened)';

'>>22603780
Anyone above their 20s aren't allowed to live as a pilot. Thats the rule of Gundam Seed. Teens are the most important in the entire Seed universe.';

'>>22603810
So, Kira and the others will die once they hit 30?';

'>>22603668
That's something you need to square away with yourself. We just need to know why Erica didn't tell Uzumi about the G project if they were so close.';

'>>22603812
They will lose their plot armor for sure.';

'Kono hakanaku mo utsukushii, zetsubou no sekai de
Kudake chitta kibou wa, yukiba wo motomete';

'>>22603814
Presumably so he could plausibly deny he knew about it. It's not like Uzumi didn't want Orb to have mobile suits just not by working with EA.';

'Orb is a dysfunctionally run country. Also how is Orb described as so technically advanced when every other country has better tech and weapons?';

'>>22603853
>how is Orb described as so technically advanced
It's considered advanced because it's a ridiculously small nation that normally wouldn't be able to compete with the EA's sheer manpower and resource wealth, or with PLANT's massive scientific and manufacturing capabilities. They managed to develop relatively quickly due to economically profiting from the N-jammer energy crisis by selling their geothermal energy and being one of the few safe havens for coordinators living on earth, which contributes to their tech and sciences.

And there's the whole technology stealing thing that happened multiple times, giving them a massive leap forward in state of the art military tech.

>when every other country has better tech and weapons?
No? How the hell did you come to that conclusion? ZAFT generally produces the best machines as far as the animation and the manga go, but Orb is at least technically on par with the EA and can sometimes rival ZAFT, although they're massively outnumbered by either of the two. Every other nation on Earth (Kingdom of Scandanavia, Oceania Union, etc) are a bunch of literalwho nobodies that cannot build their own MS.';

'>>22603870
>Orb is at least technically on par with the EA and can sometimes rival ZAFT
With what? They don't have any Mobile Suits or Nukes at the start of the show.';

'It's really weird how ZAFT are the only space colonies in Seed. You would expect there would be a lot more.';

'>>22603910
Orb is small enough that it will always get creamed by either the EA or ZAFT if it had to fight one of them to the death, that's not what we're talking about. >>22603853 asked why it's advanced, not why it has a massive army. In terms of MS, at the start of the show they collaborated with EA to build the first GAT-X prototypes, they can build exact copies of the Strike at Orb's hidden underground facilities. One was provided to Archangel and assigned to Mwu as a replacement for Kira's lost Strike, another was loaded onto Kusanagi, the one Orb warship they deployed after the country got invaded. There's also the Astray Red/Blue/Gold frames that existed at Heliopolis. If you take Destiny's retcon into account then the Akatsuki was also under construction before the end of Seed but not finished.';

'>>22603932
Mendel and Heliopolis are a thing. Were a thing.';

'>>22603932
Most of Space colony from EA nations were destroyed on the early month of first war.';

'Why was Buster so weak at the Battle of Orb? It was able to destroy an entire EA fleet in the first half of Seed. Why didn't it wipe the floor with the EA fleet attacking Orb?';

'>>22603967
It had to fight a swarm of strike daggers.';

'Legend should have wing dragoon like sf or cal re instead of dragoon pack. If all dragoons are lose, it looses most of it's fire power.';

'Just watched the Movie yesterday and it was really good I hope this wont be the last C.E. verse we will get

or just reboot the C.E. verse with the same cast Sunrise';

'>>22603810
>Tell that to Mwu';

'https://twitter.com/STRICTGodaiba/status/1784024667868500446';

'>>22603934
>Kira's lost Strike
You mean repaired Strike that has been pass down to Mwu';

'>>22603853
>Also how is Orb described as so technically advanced when every other country has better tech and weapons?
Orb literally improved Strike Freedom, IJ, and Destiny to spec/type II there's no way there's behind in technological aspect they just lack manpower to compete against EA's multiple countries';

'>>22604290
They could make a new movie or series focusing on new characters after the old ones are long gone but they won't.';

'Seeing Athrun piloting SF makes me realize that OG Freedom mays be belong to Athrun after all.';

'>>22603795
>and he almost certainly found out about it from Azrael (who would have known due to his hooks in the EA higher ups) due to his double agent status
Official timeline contradicts that hypothesis:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050429015158/http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/ce/background/timeline.html
>January 24, 71
>The Le Creuset team investigates reports of a new Earth Alliance military satellite under construction at Lagrange point 3. However, the information proves faulty and no fighting ensues. On their way back, they obtain intelligence on the Alliance's mobile suits from a spy who has infiltrated Heliopolis.
And we know that ZAFT has people infiltrated in Orb from episode 25.';

'>>22604290
>or just reboot the C.E. verse with the same cast Sunrise
What's the benefit there? Pretty much all these threads want to see the CE developed beyond this small handful of main characters.

>>22604512
Doesn't work. Director and audience watch this shit for the main cast, nothing else.';

'I am surely that professor Cagalli attempted to meet at first episode of SEED was coordinator sympathizer who worked with Morgenröte on ms development program and was the person who leaked GAT-X info to zaft.';

'>>22603967
Its easy to fight mobile armors that can't make a dent in you while you have much more free movement in space, than against mobile suits with beam weapons when you are landlocked.';

'>>22604292
Mwu died and then was revived and then almost died 2 more times.';

'>>22604709
Also, I think Buster's heavy weapons were intended to sink ships, rather than fight against other MS.';

'>>22604709
>>22604873
You're joking right? The daggers couldn't even touch Buster and Perfect Strike. It was totally a one sided massacre. How tf did the EA stand a chance';

'>>22604902
>How tf did the EA stand a chance
It didn't. That's why Azrael called for a retreat when his Gundams came up short.';

'>>22604905
So why did Uzumi act like Orb were losing badly? As far as I could see they were destroying the EA badly.';

'>>22604931
Orb would ended up being ground down eventually since they are still outnumbered and EA probably won't stop until they seize the mass driver.';

'>>22604931

Because according some anons in this thread...Uzumi is a leader of a country and is too busy doing "stuff" and no one tells him anything. Not even his chief scientist.

Uzumi is an honorabu leader! Not a corrupt politician whose actions backfired in his face with Heliopolis being destroyed.

Cagalli was wrong. Uzumi is pure and must be protected!

He is a shining example of what all leaders should be! Honorabu';

'>>22604674
That's exactly my point. They can do but that doesn't mean they will. Fans and Fukuda love Kira and Lacus, so we'll never see a new SEED story that doesn't focus on them. Even Destiny ended up having them as the heroes in the end.';

'>>22605090
We already did. Gundam Seed Stargazer, the popularity of the Seed MSV line, and Astray. We haven't seen more anime because Fukuda was supposed to make a Seed movie years ago, but his wife fell sick. So out of respect to Fukuda (who made them many millions of dollars in worth of profit for Bandai) and his wife, Bandai waited and let him handle his affairs with his wife's treatment and let Fukuda handle the Seed movie at his own pace. But even their patience was running out when they told Fukuda to hurry the heck up with production and they were not going to delay the Seed movie any further.';

'>>22605088
Read >>22603622
>However, there are policy disagreements among the noble families, and some of them are secretly assisting the Atlantic Federation with its Gundam development project in order to borrow its technology for Orb's own armed forces.
In other words, the Sahaku bastards deliberately kept Uzumi in the dark about their shady dealings.

Look, I know you are desperate to portray Uzumi as self-serving and corrupt for... reasons, but that is not what the story itself is saying. Keep your made-up bullshit constrained to fanfics.';

'>>22605099
The interviews show that Morosawa's illness was a convenient excuse. She was, in reality, never interested in being an anime writer. Fukuda dragged her to the job when all she wanted was to be a housewife (symbolism!).';

'>>22605122
That's not entirely true. You can still read interviews from those years and see that there were complaints, even the VA complained that the scripts were late and unfinished.';

'>>22605103
If your theory is right, you still haven't explained why Uzumi's chief scientist didn't tell him about the G-project.

Oh wait...its more likely Uzumi is a mix of both good and bad. He's not a perfect politician like you claim, and the G-Project backfired in his face. When Heliopolis blew up, he had to resign. Simple.';

'>>22605128
Plus the infamous deleted Seed blog post from one of the animation team members who was pissed at scripts being turned in late and them being forced to use stock animation. Because they had no time to draw new animation because they were constantly behind schedule';

'>>22605132
>If your theory is right, you still haven't explained why Uzumi's chief scientist didn't tell him about the G-project.

Again, plausible deniability';

'>>22604902
>>22604931

Because they had infinitely more guys and resources than Orb did. Eventually they'd get ground down.';

'>>22605136
That's not an explanation. You have to EXPLAIN why she would do such a thing to begin with, and go so far to betray Uzumi's trust and disobeying orders from a superior.

You can't just say "well uhh...plausible deniability" and leave it at that.';

'>>22605141
They made it clear that EA's fleets have a finite amount on Earth. When the EA had to choose between sending a majority of their forces to Panama base or defend Joshua base. They did not have the numbers to do both at the same time.';

'>>22605141
>>22605158
See >>22604905. The only thing an enterprising Orb commander had to do is...
>You, the guys with the fancy flying mobile suits stolen from ZAFT!
>Those three bastards that are giving you so much trouble? They are priority targets. Kill them at all costs. We know the small fry isn't trouble for you two, but we'll provide you some escorts.
>Oh, and sink the EA carriers if possible.';

'>>22605163
We get several scenes of Forbidden and druggies destroying Orb ships, but not a single scene of Freedom blowing up EA ships. Or Justice traveling underwater and slicing them from underneath (since apparently thats a feature Justice can do). Isn't Freedom literally designed to bombard enemy fleets from a distance? Like literally in its design description.';

'>>22605167
>Isn't Freedom literally designed to bombard enemy fleets from a distance? Like literally in its design description.
See, that would require thinking. That is not in Fukuda's toolbox. He operates at the same level as, say, Zach Snyder.';

'>>22605167
Kira's already in Jesus mode now. He won't sink any ships regardless if they're attacking Orb.';

'>>22605155
>Uzumi wants mobile suits but also wants to maintain Orb's neutral stance as best he can or at least as publicly as he can.
> Erica gets an offer to help build the Gundam's during which she can skim their technology to build her own.
> She accepts because she knows Uzumi wants mobile suits, but doesn't tell him so if they get exposed Uzumi can truthfully say he didn't know.

There easy.';

'>>22605221
So it's okay for people on his own side to get killed by the enemy if that means his hands are clean.';

'>>22605227
That doesn't explain why Erica would do any of that, or how it benefits Erica to take those actions. She's risking her own job, career, and life. She has a family too.

It makes more sense that Uzumi knew. Then just covered it up, and resigned when the plan failed.';

'>>22605221
Kira could blow a hole in the hull, let it sink, and let the crews escape. He doesn't need to completely destroy the ships';

'>>22605345
I still don't understand why Uzumi killed himself. Did Japanese fans think it was cool or something? Like Uzumi wasn't even cornered and had no choice. He and a few others blew themselves up by choice.';

'>>22605389
Nobody's been able to make sense of that, other than the cheapest possible drama.';

'>>22605389
All I remember is hearing people saying it helped the heroes win in the end for whatever reason.';

'>>22605393
I remember that thread, but that doesn't explain why Uzumi had to die.';

'>>22605389
You would think Uzumi would escape with Cagalli or somewhere else. Then help rebuild Orb in the aftermath.';

'What I want to know is why did Talia die and leave her son an orphan? The only explanation I heard was so the Minerva crew wouldn't be punished for supporting the Destiny Plan. But I don't remember if there's anything in the show that confirms this.';

'>>22605418
She wanted to die next to Gil. This is very explicit in the show.
>この人の魂は私が連れて行く。';

'>>22605395
For better or worse, they have written some extreme martyr honor code stuff into Orb, the whole going down with the ship to spare others the shame of their actions kind of thing.
We see some of it's people going to literal kamikaze lengths of fanatical in Destiny multiple times.';

'>>22605429
So, her former lover was more important to her than her son?';

'>>22605441
Apparently.';

'>>22605443
Are there any SEED parents that aren't shitty? I guess Lacus' dad wasn't bad.';

'>>22605418
It's not confirmed. It's just the assumed thing based on Japanese values. The leader dies to take punishment for their subordinates, like Synapse in Stardust Memory.';

'https://twitter.com/tanakarie/status/1783434177649787209';

'>>22605393
Uzumi sending AA and Kusanagi to space is what helped them win in the end, rather than just surrender and give the thing to Azrael or blow it up immediately and hope he'd not bother going through with the attack. Uzumi didn't have to die to accomplish this though.';

'>>22605345
It helps Orb to have mobile suits incase the invasion ever happened, even though it couldn't save them in the end. She's also risking everything by just saying no and crossing her fingers that Orb never gets drawn into the war.';

'>>22605461
The answer is RIGHT FUCKING HERE: >>22605429
Talia was in love with Durandal and wanted to go with him on his last moments. The fact that she had a son was secondary to her, as she tells Kira to ask Murrue to visit him at some point.';

'Who's your favorite and least favorite Kuwashima girl?';

'>>22605473
No, that's your interpretation of why she says she's doing that.';

'>>22605456
The Yamato's also seem to be entirely decent people.';

'>>22605478
What other interpretation is there for her actions? In thier final moments, they have this dialogue, as she lovingly holds his head...
>DURANDAL: I'm sorry, Talia. But I'm happy.
>TALIA: You're such a wretch. But I guess it can't be helped. It was destined to happen, wasn't it? You and me.';

'>>22605490
That they were destined to go down together because his entire motivation for this whole crazy thing was because she left him to have a child way back when. And she's taking responsibility for it. Not just that she luuves him so much she can't live without him and wants to die with him. That's just the doomer response for someone who hates and wants to see the worst in everything for CE.

And that's really getting fucking tiring. You'd think you'd finally have cooled off after 20 years.';

'>>22605490
Is this dialogue supposed to make me feel sorry for them, because I don't.';

'>>22605494
No you should feel sorry because they should have won because fuck Kira and Lacus amirite';

'>>22605497
The best part for me is when she convinces Rey to join the suicide pact after Kira told him to live his own life.';

'>>22604866
At this point does he just want to see how many beams he can survive?';

'>>22605493
>And she's taking responsibility for it. Not just that she luuves him so much she can't live without him and wants to die with him
She has another responsibility and perfectly good reason to live: a fucking son. Isn't that more important than some stupid sense of guilt?

>because his entire motivation for this whole crazy thing was because she left him to have a child way back when
Retconned by the movie. Durandal was working with Aura on the Destiny Plan for years, likely a whole decade before meeting Talia.
The same logic you deny to Talia is being applied to Durandal in reverse:
>he luuves her so much he will enslave the whole world after she left him to have a family

>That's just the doomer response for someone who hates and wants to see the worst in everything for CE.
>And that's really getting fucking tiring. You'd think you'd finally have cooled off after 20 years.
Okay, now you are making no sense. Also, the exact same bullshit (chick just decides to die with the guy she's madly in love) happens in FREEDOM with Orphee and Ingrid.';

'>>22605477
>favorite
Natarle
>least
Stella';

'>>22605456
We don't see much of them, but Caridad and her husband seemed to be genuinely good people. Likewise, Flay's dad seemed to be alright, although we barely got to know him, as well.';

'>>22605503
Rey was basically terminally ill, going out with his surrogate father pretty much was living his life';

'undefined';

'>>22600596
Cry.';

'>>22605568
Getting really sick and tired of pictures like this. Shinn isn't some 8 year old boy or a pet dog. He's freaking 19 years old in the Seed Freedom movie. Nearly 20 years old.

Shinn fought in a damn world war, lost his best friend, first love, and many of comrades in the Minerva when it sunk.

Pictures like these are disgusting. Imagine World War 2 Veterans being out in pictures like this.';

'>>22605561
Imagine if Rey stayed alive, I can already see him get mad at the Accords.';

'>>22605718
>Shinn isn't some 8 year old boy or a pet dog.
Um. I know someone with that exact description, also played by the same VA.';

'>>22605718
>Getting really sick and tired of pictures like this. Shinn isn't some 8 year old boy or a pet dog. He's freaking 19 years old in the Seed Freedom movie. Nearly 20 years old.
>Shinn fought in a damn world war, lost his best friend and many of comrades in the Minerva when it sunk.
Then why does he act like a starved-for-attention pet dog in the movie, desperate to impress "Commander Kira" at almost any turn?

>first love
Stella wasn't that, you sick fuck. She was a mentally retarded girl that acted as a sister substitute.';

'>>22605757
>Then why does he act like a starved-for-attention pet dog in the movie, desperate to impress "Commander Kira" at almost any turn?
Apparently Fukuda forgot how old Shinn was and over corrected way too hard after years of complaints from fans. Kind of like how he claims in interviews he forgot Lohengrin was anti-fortress cannon and let Strike Gundam block it because he thought it was cool and heroic.

There's nothing wrong with making Shinn little more happy and not so broody. But there was no Need to regress him back into an 8 year old child. That's way too much.';

'>>22605767
Blame the CD Dramas. That's where they got most of the Characterizations from.';

'>>22605767
He didn't forget, he's just said paraphrased Shinn is a good kid who got really screwed up by circumstances, so he took the opportunity to bring that good natured kid back to the forefront a bit';

'>>22605771
Not that anon but are those the things where they had shinn act like a girl and cross dress?';

'>>22605780
There’s three sets of dramas.

- The “suit CD” audio dramas that came out while SEED and Destiny were airing. There’s a cute one where Shinn tries cheating off Rey’s notes.
- The “supernova” animations, including Shinn crossdressing.
- The “omake” drama CDs released with the Remaster. Includes Mu trying to get Shinn and Athrun to make up.';

'>>22606077
I heard Shinn and Mu rebuilt fences between each other after the former learned of his personal rival's problem as the one who let Stella die, but that was long after they got drafted for Compass. He wasn't aware Mu was his enemy during the Drama CD.

On a different note, do you think Meer and Agnes ever shared a magazine cover spread due to their major status as propaganda drives? On that matter, do these girls ever cared about each other?';

'>>22606157
Yeah, Fukuda tweeted that some time that between Destiny and Freedom Shinn found out Mu was Neo and forgave him for causing Stella's death.';

'>>22606190
He tweeted that Shinn made up with Cagalli and Mu offscreen, I do t think there were more details.';

'>>22606231
Well, at least Shinn now knows Mu was basically a victim just like Stella, including leading a group of mentally unstable children who knew nothing but to fight and kill, all the more while his entire existence got overwritten. The only revenge he has, funnily enough, is calling him an "old man".

Also, let's go back to the Meer-Agnes propaganda thing, and if they ever interacted in some way.';

'>>22605778
Shinn is 19 years old, not 9 years old.';

'>>22606362
Depends, was Agnes into Athrun at the time?';

'>>22606602
>Also, let's go back to the Meer-Agnes propaganda thing, and if they ever interacted in some way.
Agnes detests Lacus for being better than her in every regard. Since Meer was publicly known as "Lacus" to everyone on PLANT until the big reveal, Agnes' attitude towards her (envy) would be pretty much the same.

>was Agnes into Athrun at the time?
She was always into Athrun. Not emotionally, that is. Agnes is a gold-digger through and through.';

'>>22606492
shinn is 17 in the movie dumbfuck';

'>>22606672
Wrong. Shinn is 17 in Seed Destiny.';

'>>22606689
born sept 1, 57
break the world was oct 2, 73

he just turned 16 the month before';

'>>22606689
He’s 16 in Destiny. Because Lacus is 20 in Freedom and Kira is 19, the movie takes place between February and May CE 75.';

'>>22606726
Some Japanese fans are saying Compass might have arrived in Foundation on the 18th of May, nothing confirmed though.';

'>>22606726
Wrong. He's 16 in early Seed, and 17 in Seed Destiny.';

'>>22606672
>>22606689
>>22606725
>>22606726
>>22606767

Shinn born in CE 57. Movie takes place in CE 75.

75 - 57 = 18

Shinn is roughly 18 years old. Potentially 19 years old if the Seed Freedom movie takes place in late CE 75.';

'>>22606492
>>22606689
>>22606767
>>22606778
Official movie databook says Shinn is 17. Now shut the fuck up.';

'>>22606782
>Shin is 17 in Seed Destiny
>Less than a year passes since end of Destiny
>Shinn 17 years old going on 18 years old in Freedom movie.
You just agreed with them dum dum.';

'>>22606778
you're a continual dumbfuck who can't even do math correctly holy hell-- the evidence for all of this is in front of your permanently crossed eyes';

'>>22606782
Basically Shinn is too old to be acting like a child in the movie.';

'>>22606782
It's fascinating how confident >>22606689/>>22606689/>>22606788 is about Shinn's age.
>Wrong
Seed Destiny's Official Guide Book I says that Shinn is sixteen in Destiny.
I wonder if this guy is duel';

'Do people not understand that Shinn got older during Destiny? Shinn is 16 during his training with ZAFT, and being assigned to Minerva after graduation. Then turns 17 during the events of Seed Destiny Seed Freedom takes place less than one year after the end of the events Seed Destiny. Which means Shinn is 17 but about to turn 18. Which means Seed Freedom takes place before September CE 75.';

'>>22606788
>>22606801
Second war starts on October 10, CE 73 and ends at some indeterminate date in CE 74.
Shinn's birthday is on September 1st.

Meaning that Shinn's 16th birthday was on 73/09/01. He turns 17 on 74/09/01, which coincides with the movie's age, if the events in FREEDOM happened before September. Personally, I don't think the second war lasted until October 74 (New Year CE 74 happened at some point between Crete and Berlin), so Shinn was 16 throughout the events of Destiny.';

'>>22606801
It's literal math dipshit, he turned sixteen right before the war started';

'>>22606801
Agreed. The war lasted a while. Shinn turned 17 during that time. It's the movie that only happens shortly after Destiny. Sometime like only 9 or 10 months have passed.

Personally I think that's way too short a time span to build a brand new ship like the Millennium with all its advanced tech.';

'>>22606856
The war did not last an entire year, therefore no, he did not turn 17 at that time.';

'>>22606856
What? I thought two years passed between Destiny and Freedom or are the writers are bad at math.';

'>>22606862
>The war did not last an entire year
Prove it. Show us the start and end dates';

'>>22606885
Back at you. People have provided receipts that Shinn was 16 in Destiny and 17 in the movie, so you show us where he had another birthday in the war.';

'>>22606863
The early databooks say it was 1 year after the end of Destiny when the movie took place. I thought it was 2 years at first since 1 year is way too soon but whatever. I guess they didn't want Kira to be in his 20s without marrying Lacus. They wanted a teen kira still.';

'undefined';

'>>22606795
>>22606816
>>22606893
Ok. I understand your confusion and your misinformation now.

Fukuda retconned Shinn's age to be 17 in the "Gundam Seed Destiny Final Plus" anime special, so he's 17 years old during the events of Gundam Seed Destiny. This happened 20 years ago so I thought you knew this.

All your data books are either old. or Fukuda doesn't agree with them.

Please update your notes.';

'>>22606904
Or... now hear me out. The ending of Final Plus took place after his 17th birthday in September of CE 74. Gasp.';

'>>22606904
Thanks for the update. Makes more sense now. Kinda dumb though. And Seed Freedom takes place 6 to 9 months after the end of Seed Destiny. Hes about to be 18 in the movie';

'>>22606904
>Fukuda
Asjdbdhsbrjrnrrkrbwjwuerrwk';

'>>22606904
They did that because I'm guessing they didn't want Lunamaria to be in an underage relationship with Shinn. If she's 2 years older than Shinn and turns 18, then it's weird and icky for her to be banging a 16 year old. Japan is not fond of underage relationships. She Fukuda aged up Shinn.';

'>>22606904
>all wikias and info sites confirm it
Dang. Anon actually delivered. I thought he was being retarded. Sorry bruv';

'was he really aged up, he's still listed as seventeen in movie guides? also sorry but fukuda isn't someone we should bringing up as an example of consistency';

'>>22606924
They have Kira listed as 19 for final plus, so he had a birthday. It's called growing older.';

'>>22606904
>>22606912
>>22606909
>>22606924
>Fukuda retconned Shinn's age to be 17 in the "Gundam Seed Destiny Final Plus" anime special
Proof of that? Because I can't find a single shred of evidence anywhere in Japanese that corroborates that. The only place where it is mentioned that Shinn is 17 in Final Plus is "The Gundam Wiki".
Gundam Perfect File, published years after the airing, puts his age at 16.';

'>>22606916
Japan considers 20 legal age, not 18';

'>>>/a/266040368
>Chosen one syndrome ruined shonen
By the way the hatred towards all of this comes almost entirely from westerners (primarily Americans) because the idea of destiny to them directly antagonizes their personal values of freedom.

Let me put it this way. Look at the number of people here who believe with all their heart that the core theme of Naruto is about hard work, that the defining moments in the series are Rock Lee vs Gaara and Naruto vs Neji, despite the fact this is around 2 years into a 15 year series. Lee is primarily a gag character who one-ups Sasuke, loses to Gaara, is about to be killed by Kimimaro when he returns, fights a filler tier clone of himself, and is never relevant again outside of a spin-off gag series. But you fuckers still treat him like he was meant to be the second coming of Christ just because his message was "hard work overcoming natural talent".

You favor actualization as a story concept because it's your cope that you have unlimited potential and can do anything if you try hard enough, and the only reason you're not extremely successful right now is because you haven't actually tried. The very idea that some people are more suited to success on a base level is offensive to you because that limits your potential and by extension personal freedom. The idea of destiny in a story isn't that someone is handed all their successes with no work. It's that the character by his very nature is suited to achieve great things. But keep coping that as long as you have the potential to do something, that makes you hot shit.';

'https://twitter.com/SEED_HDRP/status/1785126928820945047';

'https://twitter.com/SEED_HDRP/status/1785131960865632256';

'>>22607348
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

We know Rock Lee's potential because he uses 8 gates. And 8 gates Lee could probably kill end of anime Sasuke and Naruto if he landed a hit.';

'>>22606926
>sorry but fukuda isn't someone we should bringing up as an example of consistency
He isn't an example of consistency. He's an example of authority. I'm sorry how you feel but he's the director. If he wants Lohengrin to just be like any other big beam, then thats his call to make. If he wants to age up Shinn then thats his call to make. Even if we dont like it. No amount of databook posting will change that. The only person above Fukuda is Bandai. And the only rule Bandai has ever made clear is that only anime counts as canon. Books, novels, manga, games, secondary stuff does not count as canon. So unless Bandai says that Shinn is younger than Fukuda's word is what matters. He wants Shinn older so. Shinn is older. I don't really see Bandai caring.';

'Just realize Kira is seed freedom get almost the same role as superman from BVS movies except there is no batman equivalent.';

'>>22607583
>except there is no batman equivalent.
Athrun is the Batman equivalent except he's not a paranoid schizo worried Kira is coming to get him but rather an ally he has history with, enough to knock some sense into him when he starts sperging about losing Lois/Lacus';

'>>22608106
Also, their moms don't have the same name.';

'>>22606633
I feel like her pride already got injured by the time she learns Shinn got the Impulse before the start of Destiny and the Minerva's emergency maiden voyage. Her dream is to pilot a Gundam, and while she does transport the Immortal Justice during the founding of Compass, she was never acknowledged enough to pilot any, and is shocked when Shinn accomplished first on a make-up exam, over Rey.';

'>>22602074
shes a hypocrite her father is not
he had nothing to do with the gundam or archangel, that was other orb members doing their own thing.';

'>>22608634
Dude just ran with it when he found out about it though';

'I must be an idiot. I genuinely thought the movie took place like 2 or 3 years after Seed Destiny. The Accords called Freedom old and made fun of Destiny Gundam too.

>mfw when the movie is set only like 7 months after end of Seed Destiny

Ok wtf.

How tf do the accords gets off with insulting Destiny and Freedom??? The suits aren't old like I though. I could understand if like 2 or 3 years passed. But less than a year? Nah wtf is this. Are the accords stupid? These suits are still modern tech that kicked their asses';

'>>22608694
Well what options are left on the table? Seriously.
Someone goes behind you back and creates 5 super weapons that have already seen battle with those you wish to be at peace with. He was caught with his paints down.
He can't deny it and even if he did it wouldn't help.';

'>>22608591
And then she mocks him when the Destiny Plan failed and gets pissed that he and Luna got together while she's still single.';

'>>22609018
Old as in outdated, every Foundation suit is stronger than SF, IJ and Destiny, with Shive.A and Calre.A being stronger than the type 2 versions as well.';

'>>22609526
The Foundation suits get raped by Destiny and Shive.A is stalled by SF under Athrun and defeated by IJ. They are not stronger except maybe Calre.A. All they have going for them is their beam armor which isn't an issue once the enemy knows about it and equips other weapons instead';

'>>22609637
Really just came down to the fact that for all their bluster they lacked true combat experience, they can't defeat a force composed of 3 of the most exceptional pilots out there, especially when they've all fought against and at times tried to kill each other.';

'>>22609526
>Old as in outdated,
But they aren't though. Only like 7 months have passed since the end of Seed Destiny.

Not a 2 year time skip like Seed and Seed Destiny';

'>>22609526
>>22609649
>every Foundation suit is stronger than SF, IJ and Destiny, with Shive.A and Calre.A being stronger than the type 2 versions as well.
Remind me, which MSs defeated which again? The only thing the Foundation units have going for them is their fancy Femto armor. Take that out of the equation and they're equivalent to any high-end unit. Even Orphee's anti-PS darts are nothing to call home about.
Fucking hell, Hilda took out one of them on a GELGOOG.';

'>>22609913
Hilda had that righteous fury on her side also Lunamaria's panties';

'>>22609913
The novel says Immortal Justice is superior to Destiny Gundam in performance, but I definitely do not agree. Immortal Justice was very underwhelming in the movie. I don't see how it's superior to Destiny';

'>>22609913
My point is that the fight was not decided by the MSs but by the skill and feelings of the pilots, pic related is a surprise attack, not a clash of MSs and their specs.';

'>>22609951
And I'm telling you that, specs-wise, the Foundation machines are nothing special. Apart from their fancy armor and cape, their armaments are very standard. Even the DRAGOONs are nothing important by then.';

'>>22609971
Hmm, I guess you are right.
I guess my point is only correct about the SF since basically its entire loadout is countered by Femto armor?';

'>>22609979
>since basically its entire loadout is countered by Femto armor?
Strike Freedom still has those hip railguns, right?';

'>>22609979
>>22609984
>Strike Freedom still has those hip railguns, right?
The rail guns are slow to fire. They take at least a second to fold forward, lock on, and fire. Kira tries to fire them, but the Black Knights actually are faster and slash the rail gun barrel apart.';

'>>22609971
They are fast enough to keep up with Strike Freedom and Destiny. So their basic performance (speed, thruster power, agility, etc) is at least on par with those Gundams';

'>>22609526
>every Foundation suit is stronger than SF, IJ and Destiny, with Shive.A and Calre.A being stronger than the type 2 versions as well.

>>22610051
>at least on par with Strike Freedom and Destiny
So, what is it, then? Are they "stronger than" or "at least on par with"?';

'>>22610062
You are arguing they are weaker and inferior. I am saying that, AT MINIMUM, they are peers to the Gundams. There is some room for speculation to determine how much the pilots are picking up the slack of the old Gundams, but at minimum the Foundations suits are relative to the Gundams. In the same ballpark of performance at minimum. Possibly more.';

'Foundation had their hands on the SF itself for a while so they know all about it is and what it can do. Destiny's public history is getting dismantled by Athrun.

They *think* they have hard counters to those older suits, and they're considered older and lower spec in story because Erica Simmons does make a point of warning Kira and Shinn when SF and Destiny are pulled out of mothballs that the Spec II's still operate at the suits original specs when it comes to capability.';

'>>22610074
>You are arguing they are weaker and inferior.
Their armament loadout is certainly inferior to SF, IJ, Destiny, Akatsuki or even Impulse.
And no, I said they were "equivalent to any high-end unit" right here: >>22609913

>old
They are months-old machines! There's nothing "old" about them!';

'>>22610093
>Akatsuki or even Impulse.
Stop being silly. More weapons doesn't mean better weapons or better performance. They would shred Impulse apart.

The Black Knights have FT armor, the raw output of their speed can easily surpass WoL Strike Freedom blasting at its wings at 100%, and the Black Knights have afterimages to their movement.

The weak point of the Black Knights are the pilots. Not the technology. They've never been challenged or fought in real battles with their lives on the line. They mentally collapsed when things didnt go their way, and they started dying.

If they had been trained better and had more experience, then things would be different.';

'>>22610116
>More weapons doesn't mean better weapons or better performance.
Their rifle/sword combo is nothing special. Hilda ripped apart one of the Black Knights (the chick) with a beam naginata. Meaning that, in all likelihood, Impulse or GYAN could do the same, since their Femto armor can't do shit against melee.';

'Sword Impulse could probably put up a fight against a Knight but Akatsuki is uniquely fucked in that matchup';

'>>22610145
If it gets up close for a saber kill, not really.';

'>>22610121
>beam saber
It's not really a weakness when the same thing can be done to Impulse.';

'>>22610121
>>22610149
Impulse and Akatsuki are way slower than the Black Knight suits. Remember the Black Knights have after images when they move and even fooled Kira. Meaning they probably studied Wings of Light tech and created their own version for their suits.';

'>>22610161
>the same thing can be done to Impulse.
Akatsuki can at least bounce the beams off. Impulse can't.';

'>>22610164
Their WoL tech was like a halfassed version for all except Orphee's unit. They worked against all the weaker units but even Destiny's regular WoL use seemed to be more effective and that's before it started making actual doubles of itself.';

'>>22610087
Again, SF and Destiny are shown to have significant upgrades in the finale that they didn't have before (it's not like that disruptor beam is just magiced into SF's head when the Defender locks on) so either Erica is being coy or that's some dialogue fuck up there.';

'>>22610450
Novel says Immortal Justice is more powerful than Destiny Gundam.';

'https://twitter.com/SEED_HDRP/status/1785866815534764432';

'>>22609526
I actually respect the Black Knights. They managed to make technology to challenge and be a threat to Team Lacus. Not even Durandal could do that. Kira just laughed at Legend Gundam.';

'>>22610449
>half-assed
Anon they are running WoL on batteries. Give them some serious credit. They seemed to have solved the power issue of WoL guzzling electricity and needing a nuclear reactor.';

'>>22610450
>(it's not like that disruptor beam is just magiced into SF's head when the Defender locks on)

For what it's worth it's also not animation magic either, it didn't just gain the Disruptor when it linked with Proud Defender, you can actually see it has it in a bunch of shots prior.';

'Is this supposed to be chest armor right? I think I will be cool to have another ms with competense chest armor since EZ8 Gundam from 08MS team, but when the series was aired it didn't stand a chance, and was shown to be as good as dagger series thin skin.';

'>>22610550
You'd think that's the armored cockpit block but it isn't, the cockpit is that space under it';

'>>22610087
>Foundation had their hands on the SF itself for a while
Since when? They shot it down in a flashback in the movie. I would assume if they had suits that could shoot down SF then they don't need to examine SF. Their suits are already better.';

'>>22610087
>>22610450
>>22610503

To be fair, Erica wasn't sure Strike Freedom was going to get to use the Proud Defender pack. She only knew Kira was taking it out with the standard load out.

The disruptor doesn't with a single nuclear reactor. It needs the power of 2 nuclear reactors, and needs to be connected to Proud Defender to work. Also Kira needs approval from Lacus for it work. So the disruptor is a non-factor with standard equipment.';

'>>22610560
It's where ms power generator reside if it gets hit ms explode, so cover it with armor makes sense, and move cockpit below.';

'Guys, which version of SEED do i watch? Original or Remaster?';

'ok, so talia is a flawed human being and shit mother who chose to die with her former lover instead of her son. and?';

'>>22610484
>They seemed to have solved the power issue of WoL guzzling electricity and needing a nuclear reactor.
COMPASS solved the puzzle of powering all of original Freedom's weapons, plus a beam shield, with a battery.';

'>>22610818
Neither. It's a garbage show. Your time is better off used watching much better stuff.';

'>>22610952
Not really. Even with battery improvements, the new databooks say Rising Freedom uses a lot of power. So much so that Kira has to be careful about overusing it. Immortal Justice doesn't even have a beam shield.';

'>>22610963
>the new databooks say Rising Freedom uses a lot of power. So much so that Kira has to be careful about overusing it.
Which "new databooks"? Because none of them say any such thing anywhere:

>Movie pamphlet Standard
https://e-hentai.org/g/2832986/132d0f687a/

>Movie Pamphlet Deluxe
https://e-hentai.org/g/2832985/2c13a9b469/

>Character Archive
https://e-hentai.org/g/2860498/454e7fe8a4/

>CE History book
https://e-hentai.org/g/2839838/470a00fc6d/

>Great Mechanics magazine
https://e-hentai.org/g/2873068/a11c369413/

Plus the HG model kit manual.';

'>>22611039
If you are going to post, then at least read what you post';

'>>22611039

Are you disagreeing that it's not battery powered?

Pretty well known fact anon.

We've known for months it's battery powered.';

'>>22611099
>>22611079
We know that piece of shit uses a battery. But where does it say that it's prone to getting drained quickly if they are overused? Or that Kira has to be careful about its performance? We saw it defeat two Destroy Gundams which, even if they're not up to factory spec, are still extremely powerful units.
Rising was defeated in melee combat when Orphee drained the battery and VPS using its cape. The armaments were not a factor.';

'>>22611112

Kira had been using Rising Freedom for an extended period of time.

He chased the guy across entire countries in the movie and shot down grunts

Of course the battery wouldn't be 100%';

'I think it's pretty funny that Athrun rejected Immortal Justice and kept Infinite Justice. Athrun would rather use Z'gok with a funny hat than use Immortal Justice.';

'>>22611112
You can't use Destroy Gundam as a benchmark. Those units in the movie were barely functioning. The first one didn't have its phase shift or Geschmeidig Panzer functioning. Then the second one wasn't even fully constructed. It was missing the giant backpack, arms, and entire systems.';

'>>22611125
Rising and Immortal are COMPASS units, to which Athrun does not belong. He does clandestine ops for Terminal, on which the "kelpie" makes more sense.';

'>>22611147
>The first one didn't have its phase shift or Geschmeidig Panzer functioning.
Just like the powerplant, Destroy's baseline armor is inconclusive. Some sources say VPS while others say Trans-Phase.

>arms
One arm.';

'>>22611153
Team Lacus doesn't care about the rules. If Athrun wanted to pilot Immortal Justice, they would have made him one, or they would have put one inside the Z'gok. He doesn't want it';

'>>22611112
>We saw it defeat two Destroy Gundams which, even if they're not up to factory spec, are still extremely powerful units.

Nope. If those Destroys were fully functional then Kira's full burst attack in the movie would have done nothing. He did the same in the TV anime and it just bounced off. Destroy is supposed to be immune to long range attacks.';

'>>22611164
Lol I forgot about that scene. Yeah Kira shouldn't be able to touch destroy with long range';

'>>22611160
You are thinking of Terminal, not COMPASS. The latter operates at the whim of its sponsor nations.';

'>>22611224
Compass and Terminal are all under Team Lacus.';

'>>22611234
One is a multinational peacekeeping organization with members under seconding from official militaries. The other is a shadowy "intelligence-collecting" organization made up of influential people from across the world, uniformly loyal to the Clyne Faction's cause not unlike LOGOS.
I hate Lacus too, but stop lying.';

'>>22611240
On paper, yes. In practice, they are all Team Lacus. Compass even went rogue, disobeyed orders, stole their ship, weapons, equipment, and launched an attack to rescue Lacus.';

'>>22611246
>Compass even went rogue
With the full cooperation of Orb's civilian government and armed forces.

>stole their ship, weapons, equipment
They didn't "steal" shit. Orb passed it to them pretty much officially and made it look it was a clandestine operation to avoid getting Requiem'd. And it didn't work.';

'https://twitter.com/giri_giri0117/status/1784958205623513124

>I drew this in SKEB. Agnes Giebenrath changes her hair color to Stella (with eyebrows at the ends) and tries to seduces Shin, but Lunamaria finds out and beats her up, and she begins to awaken to something.

hue~';

'>>22611264
It would be funnier if Agnes attempted to do Stella's retard talk, with some JAV added to it.
>Stera-wa... hitsuyo... Shinn-no... ochinchin...';

'>>22611252
>clandestine
So officially, on paper, they stole it. Since Orb will publicly deny involvement.';

'>>22611252

So you agree with anon then?

Orb was Team Lacus too.

They even built a secret underground Island base that no one knew about in the movie.';

'>>22611286
>a secret underground Island base that no one knew about
You mean Onogoro Island, which has had military facilities since the first series? The one for which ZAFT even built specialized units to obliterate?';

'>>22611246
>On paper, yes. In practice, they are all Team Lacus

>>22611278
>So officially, on paper, they stole it.

Pick a lane and stay in it. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.';

'>>22611293
>You mean Onogoro Island
No. The other island off the coast of Onogoro.';

'>>22611252
Anon do you seriously believe that Terminal and Compass don't secretly obey Lacus's orders? Their whole thing is always about doing good no matter what rules stop them. That's why they rebelled and killed Durandal';

'>>22611365
COMPASS can't do that. It was effectively dissolved when PLANT and the Atlantic Federation went their separate ways.';

'>>22611388
Compass is staffed mostly with Lacus sympathizers. Rules don't apply if they want to do something else. They will just do it.';

'>>22611240
>>22611252
You are seriously underestimating Lacus. She was a charismatic music idol in ZAFT and leader that everyone loves for some reason.

Now in the movie we find out she has secret telepathic powers that can control people, and she was "bred" to be a Queen. It throws everything into question.';

'>>22611399
>>22611365
>>22611286
>>22611246
>>22611234
>>22611160
>>22611477
What's the point about arguing about this kind of stuff if we're just going to go "Lacus and her coop can ignore everything at their whim because they are the Good Guys"?';

'>>22611286
They'd had that base since Destiny. That's where where they stored the Archangel between shows.';

'>>22611278
Given that the Accords and Aura were defeated and their scheming exposed, then no after the movie they can publicly say they knew Compass's Eurasian mess up was a frame job and they supported the attack against Aura but needed to play dumb to avoid being a target.';

'>>22611286
>Orb was Team Lacus too.
With Cagalli as "Chief Representative"? NO FUCKING SHIT.';

'>>22611164
>>22611186

Maybe the pilot just sucked and couldn't get the shields up in time. That seems to need to be manually activated given that Kira does later hit Stella with a successful railgun shot during Berlin while she was distracted by Shinn.';

'>>22610466
Well that's blantantly impossible given that Immortal has very few weapons and then gets slaughtered by the Black Knights while Destiny is more than a match for them. And it's not like Shinn was having mental struggles like Kira was either.';

'>>22611365
Of course Compass follow Lacus orders, she's literally the CIC. It's just that unless push absolutely comes to shove they can't just go rogue on a whim, the organization exists specially to function as a legitimate entity that has rules and limitations.
Terminal also don't follow Lacus orders. They're made up of sympathizers and founded from people who worked for her father but she's not their boss. If Lacus broke bad they'd probably be the ones sending a strike team after her.';

'>>22611535
>If Lacus broke bad they'd probably be the ones sending a strike team after her.
But the flip side is that if she asked them to make a small army of elite powerful Gundams to keep in case of emergency, then they would obey her.';

'>>22611545
Yeah that DOM';

'>>22611224
But Compass decision making' s fully in hands of Lacus and Kira';

'>>22611590
It is, but again it is conditional on authorization from their supporting nations. EA, ZAFT and Orb can say "no" to Compass and they are bound by it.';

'>>22611594
yes in The movie okay then but we could still be a pirate, in the first place the members of Compass are Kira and Lacus' supporters.';

'>>22611598
>COMPSbone Vanguard';

'>>22611604
>Kira with an eyepatch, Mori and blue on his shoulders
>Pirate-themed Freedom Gundam
I'm throwing money on the screen, PLEASE HAPPEN';

'>>22611657
>Tori*
WTF Spellcheck.';

'>>22611164
>>22611524
The first one is functional. Shields are manually activated and it was about to fire its cannons instead when Kira destroyed it.
Obvious weak point.';

'>>22611716
>The first one is functional.
No it wasn't fully functional. The Phase shift clearly wasn't working. The only defense that seemed to be semi-working was the beam shields.

>Shields are manually activated
No. The Geschmeidig Panzer covers the entire suit. When Impulse first encountered Destroy, it shot beam weapons at the legs and the beams were deflected away. Then Stella acted surprised and didn't even notice Impulse until after it attacked.';

'>>22611728
>The Phase shift clearly wasn't working.
Genuinely, what makes you say that?
>The Geschmeidig Panzer covers the entire suit
And? Ok even if they are automatic, do we have a case of "friendly" beams passing through these types of shields while they are activated? Why wouldn't the shielding at the front be disabled in order to fire safely?';

'>>22611753
>And? Ok
Concession accepted.

>even if they are automatic, do we have a case of "friendly" beams passing through these
Literally every time Forbidden Gundam fired its bending beam. A Geschmeidig Panzer field is how Forbidden Gundam bends its beam.';

'>>22610818
Remaster';

'>>22611770
>do we have a case of "friendly" beams passing through these
>conveniently leave out "types of shields"
It's like you already know. Those are the rails, not even the shields on the backpack you retard.
Next your going to tell me something beyond stupid like the colonies used for requiem can generate shields just because they use GP.
>No example of "GP" shields working two ways
>Ignore genuine question about Phase Shift
Back up your claim properly. The first Destroy is obviously, more or less, fully functional. Simple as.';

'>>22611753
Your original question is wrong. G-panzer isn't a type of "shield". It's a magnetic field that can be controlled and deflect/redirect incoming or outgoing fire.';

'>>22611524
>Maybe the pilot just sucked and couldn't get the shields up in time.
If you watch the Destroy Gundam episode the entire suit has G-panzer and it seems to be permanently turned on. They shoot Destroy Gundam in the back, underneath, sides, top, etc. All the attacks were ineffective or bounced off. So it has a combo defense of transphase armor, G-panzer, and beam shields.

>That seems to need to be manually activated given that Kira does later hit Stella with a successful railgun shot during Berlin while she was distracted by Shinn.
Yeah but that was after Shinn slashed the area with the beam saber. So probably the area was already damaged';

'>>22611840
I'm aware. I say "friendly" as in to avoid bending an outgoing beam while the GP bends incoming fire. Since he brought up GP he must believe they are interlocked with the positron reflector completely or to some degree.
I say shield as in the use of shielding instead of the Forbbidden and Ziggurats intentional bending of their own beams. If we didn't care about the "shield" distinction then you could argue that the Destroy could bend some of its outgoing beams as well and they just never revealed it for whatever reason.';

'>>22611852
Im not going to get into the weeds here. From my perspective the only thing that seemed to do any damage to destroy gundam was beam sabers. It had phase shift armor, G-panzer to deflect attacks, and beam shields to block really big attacks like Lohengrin. Fukuda has always let beam sabers be the universal unstoppable weapon. If anons say Destroy Gundam wasnt working right in the movie I think I kinda agree.';

'>>22611860
The real question is how come a beam saber can slice through Destroy Gundam armor INSTANTLY like butter, but takes forever to cut through cheap ass space debris?';

'>>22611860
>It had phase shift armor, G-panzer to deflect attacks, and beam shields to block really big attacks like Lohengrin. Fukuda has always let beam sabers be the universal unstoppable weapon.
That's fair and even agree. I just provided a claim that I think is backed up by the entire cosmic era and holds better than "semi-working beam shields". It's believable since we know the state LOGOS, but that is so specific for this 3 second scene that I personally wouldn't believe it unless it's explicitly stated somehow.';

'>>22611860
Not the person who has been replying earlier, but both Destroys in the movie are in obvious states of disrepair';

'>>22611867
In fairness, wasn't that space colony wreckage? That stuff needs to be pretty tough.';

'>>22611867
>The real question is how come a beam saber can slice through Destroy Gundam armor INSTANTLY like butter, but takes forever to cut through cheap ass space debris?

No the real question is how come Calamity Gundam gets anti-beam coating on its weapons and can block Anti-ship swords, but destroy Gundam gets nothing like it. If you were gonna make an overkill Gundam like Destroy then give it EVERYTHING!';

'>>22611868
Fukuda can't make up his mind on how big Blue Cosmos and Logos are supposed to be. And how much authority Blue Cosmos has within the EA. In Season 1, Blue Cosmos could order any ship in EA around and take command of it. Now they are a seperate army that's not EA? What's going on.';

'>>22611852
>If we didn't care about the "shield" distinction then you could argue that the Destroy could bend some of its outgoing beams as well and they just never revealed it for whatever reason.
If Destroy Gundam could bend beams then it would unstoppable. It would bend its huge ass beams and Kira wouldn't be able to dodge it.';

'>>22611894
perfect just nerf some other stuff and you got destroy spec II for SEED Justice';

'I thought Destroy Gundam blew up in Seed Destiny because Kira stabbed it with two beam sabers. I never thought the chest gun area was actually a big weakness. Thats just weird. That would mean every suit with a chest gun has a weakpoint';