'>>2726969
The milsurp one that's $50 because nobody wants ACU.';

'>>2726969
Meme shelter';

'Depends on your preferences. For me it was keeping the fabric off my face and body where possible.';

'>>2727251
I also like this one from Alton, but if it is raining then your stuff will get a bit wet as you get out, but when it's not, it is probably the best bivy to actually get in and out of';

'>>2726969
Probably the dutch army hooped bivy or the snugpack strato(if you can get it for cheap)';

'I'm trying to understand the benefits of each setup for solo adventures.

Are far as I understand these are the main categories:
1: bivy net with tarp above
2: bivy sack
3: bivy tent. essentially a small tent.
4: 1 man tent (many types exist)

Is there anyone with experience that could help me choose which path to take? Or recommendations for specific products to look into?

Thank you in advance
-retard';

'>>2727165
>>2727251
>>2727254
>>2727359
Thank you for the recommendations :)';

'>>2727390
I'd take 4, the one man tent every time. Simply because you can get ones that are light and compact, and still give you the freedom to shelter inside in the wind and rain, get changed, cook, eat etc.';

'>>2727390
Depends what your adventures are.
Bivy sack is really nice if you need something low profile, few parts that can potentially break, quick setup and low cost. This is why the military uses them.
One man tents are best for comfort, but often cost more, stand out more and takes longer to set up. Bivy tent is a middle ground i suppose and net bivy is for weight saving, though adding the tarp kind of ruins that idea.
Personally I still prefer bivy sacks because that is what i used in the military and what im used to. Bivy chads rise up!';

'>>2727390
These categories aren't great and won't really inform further decisions, especially since 1, 3 and 4 are basically the same thing (all are one man tents with a tarp over them) and 2 is completely unrelated. I think it'd be better to break it down into components.
>Ground sheet
Keeps water from soaking through your things from below and can act as a sacrificial layer for abrasion and tears. Not strictly necessary if you have something waterproof below you already.
>Emergency shelter
This is the bivvy bag. Waterproof lower, sort of breathable upper. You can stuff your bag in this, crawl into it and basically make it through some adverse weather if you can't set up anything else. Combined with a tarp it makes for a decent splash guard, but on its own it isn't a real shelter unless you would like to spend all night sitting upright or marinating in your own juices.
>Net tent with bathtub floor
This keeps insects out and prevents water from flowing through your sleeping position.
>Tarp, shaped tarp or rainfly that goes over your sleep setup
This is what actually protects you from weather and provides stable shelter, it can be combined with any of the prior items.

After boiling that all down we can see that despite 1 and 4 being essentially the same thing (a net tent with a tarp on top), they're both different paradigms, with 1 representing something that can be arranged nearly any way you want with a lot of modularity and 4 representing a prepackaged solution that doesn't require you to learn a fuckload of knots and tarp pitching techniques.
Once you have made that choice, everything else is optimizing for weight, cost, ease-of-setup, your ability to mess with your gear post-setup (space to take off your clothes or cook something) and expected conditions.

tl;dr; 1-2 man tent is probably best for a beginner, with a bivvy bag to round out the capabilities of the sleep setup.';

'>>2727615
Just use a rain poncho that can be used as a tarp. Wont add any extra weight.';

'>>2727615
Bivy sack/bivy tent is ideal for military use, especially where the only sleep shelter they issue to you is a tarp (Australia).
Quick to setup (if you don't need/want to set up a tarp, windproof, waterproof and most of all, low profile so no one can complain.

I've seen the US issue one man tents now, which is perfect for added comfort and quality of life. The "ultra-low profile bivy on the ground" is really not necessary for non-special forces units.';

'>>2727390
1. Bug bivy. Good option. Cheap. Tarps don’t have much protection from splashes or wind driven rain. Tricky setup, comparatively. Most ventilation.

2. Just a bivy; “bivy sack” is redundant. Least versatile. It has a single use; lying down for rain and wind protection. You’ll have to eat in the rain. Really only used by larpers and serious mountaineers. Whatever humidity is trapped inside with you will absolutely condense when the temperature drops.

3. Not a bivy. That’s a tent. The entrance is on the front rather than the side. This style of tent has fallen out of favor due to less vestibule space, tricky entrance, and less ventilation. They can be lighter though, which is why ultralight brands like Tarptent make them.

4. Most popular for a reason. Not as much ventilation as the tarp, but much easier to set up with more wind and rain protection. Better ventilation than a bivy or a front entry tent, with way more usability than a bivy.


I wouldn’t consider a bivy to be an option. You will absolutely have nights, evenings, and mornings with rain. With any kind of tent or tarp, you can eat, check maps, take care of your feet, organize your pack, masturbate, read, or whatever. In a bivy you can just lie down and wait.

There’s nothing more cozy than chilling out in a tent, eating or reading in the vestibule, wrapped in a quilt, with rain pattering against your tarp. Hammocks win that one, but a bivy isn’t even in the contest.';

'>>2727165
Let me guess, it weighs approximately 5x more than your average civvie bag?';

'>>2727608
Yea my MSR Hubba Hubba 2 is a true 2 man tent and weighs a little over 3lbs. If an extra pound on my shelter makes or breaks me im already screwed. Its worth it for the room. I also have a Seek Outside Silex, which is one man and floorless and its 1lb 14oz. I love it for winter camping alone when i need a woodstove or just a rain tarp to keep in my pack while hunting bear/early season.';

'>>2727746
>I wouldn't consider a bivy to be an option
Then there was no need for you to post. Opinion discarded.';

'>>2727765
Not nearly that much heavier, but if you're a whiny bitch that counts ounces then it's not for you.';

'>>2727786
There were four options total, and I laid out exactly why you’ve never spent more than a few nights in a bivy.

Please explain what you do when you wake up to rain, or it starts raining right when you get to camp. No hypotheticals, please.';

'>>2727791
I set up a tarp and chill under it.';

'>>2727792
Why aren’t you considering a bivy?';

'>>2727788
Yes, but the whole point of a bivy bag is that it's lighter and more compact than a tent. If it no longer has that advantage then there are only downsides.';

'>>2727794
I am. Tarp over the bivy';

'>>2727799
That isn't the whole point of a bivy at all you mouthbreathing moron. It's to augment a sleeping bag in extreme cold weather. Ultralighters decided to start using them instead of tents because it works pretty good but wasn't originally what they were for.

Also, fuckfaced retard, even a milspec bivy is lighter than most 1 person tents.';

'>>2727836
NTA
>It's to augment a sleeping bag in extreme cold weather.
Bivys are designed to keep you dry.
>Ultralighters decided to start using them instead of tents because it works pretty good but wasn't originally what they were for.
No they don’t lol.

>Also, fuckfaced retard, even a milspec bivy is lighter than most 1 person tents.
I don’t doubt it but post some examples.';

'>>2727746
>I wouldn’t consider a bivy to be an option.
Some of the US National Parks have “bivy only” hike in campsites requiring a specific permit and a “bag check” (similar to backcountry permits and bag checks…do you have food, water, bear spray, maps etc so that rescue is less likely to be needed).
If you show up to bag check with a 1 man tent then your permit doesn’t issue, you can’t travel and you forfeit you campsite fee.

> 2. Just a bivy…Really only used by larpers and serious mountaineers
First bivy I ever purchased was one of those, I legitimately thought it would be a tent option, tried sleeping in it once and realized how stupid I was…I did keep it though and I always throw it into my winter day hike or backcountry snowboarding packs as an emergency shelter, just in case, that’s probably it’s most legitimate use';

'>>2727941
>Bivys are designed to keep you dry
Wrong.

The military was doing it before the retarded climbers figured out they could use it on cliff sides.

Milspec is around 2 lbs if not slightly lighter and most 1person tents are 2.5 to 3.';

'>>2727836
Ultralights don't use them retard. Dyneema tents are insanely light now. Zpacks single person tents are around 12oz and the real ultralight retards who hate comfort use dyneema tarps which are like 5oz.';

'>>2728006
Are they hike in campsites or technical climbing routes? Like I said, they’re really only used by LARPers (see below) and legitimate mountaineers.

>>2728026
>made out of a water proof material
>not insulated
Yeah that totally sounds like something designed to keep you warm.

>most tents are 2.5 to 3lbs
lol
LMAO!';

'>>2728026
>most 1person tents are 2.5 to 3.

Lol. Maybe $20 chink tents from Walmart poorfag.';

'>>2728120
Even run-of-the-mill 1p silpoly or silnylon trekking pole tents are under 2lbs. X-Mid, Lunar Solo, The One, Lanshan… all around 28oz.';

'>>2727765
>>2726969
the military one is badass, it's pure goretex
nothing else will be as waterproof and still breathable
get a down bag for inside though';

'>>2727791
>I laid out exactly why I didn't need to post
ftfy';

'>>2728183
>breathable

It's a fucking bivvy. It's going to be shit and wet inside from condensation. Packing out heavy ass goretex larp gear for no reason other than to larp as a spec op team. Just /out/ things.';

'>>2728198
>It's going to be shit and wet inside from condensation.
Open the ventilation? Have you never hiked before?';

'>>2728231
NTA
You’re new, so I’ll explain what most of us consider to be basic bitch camping 101.

Most air outside of very high elevations and deserts contains a high amount of moisture in the form of humidity. That air is trapped inside of your shelter. As the night progresses, outside ambient temperature drops, the temperature inside your shelter increases, and the surface of your shelter cools down. When the warm, humid air inside of your shelter meets its cold surface, it condenses into droplets.

This is a problem even on well ventilated shelters that use the ubiquitous single wall design like the Lunar Solo. It has a large door and a good sized vent between the floor and the walls around it entire perimeter, and it’s still pretty common to wake up with a small puddle on the floor. Weather is the big factor there (dew point, humidity, wind).

A bivy doesn’t have any ventilation except by your face (unless we’re talking about a bug/net buy and tarp combo, which is the best option for this issue).

>but muh Gor-tex!
Gore-Tex relies on evaporation. It requires the humidity on one side of the fabric to be lower than the other; water vapor can pass through the tiny pores in the PTFE layer then evaporate to the less-humid side. If the outside humidity is too high, the process slows (or stops completely). Humidity rises and peaks just before sunrise.

It’s not like you’ll have a gallon of water swishing around the inside of your bivy, but you will be damp. The military doesn’t care because they’re not worried about comfort, and you do t care about comfort because you’re a newfag who desu is camping is supposed to be uncomfortable.';

'>>2727804
>bivy is waterproof
>still needs a tarp
What’s the admvantage over a tent?';

'>>2728026
>Bivys are designed to keep you dry
>Wrong.
Holy shit, this board always surprises me. I know people here are retarded, so logically I shouldn’t be surprised, but I guess the overall level of stupidity just gets worse and worse. Like you think you’ve read the dumbest possible thing but someone else comes along and tops it.';

'>>2728241
>t. has never used a bivy before';

'>>2728255
You can just guy out a tarp or seek other rudimentary shelter that blocks most of the weather and get in the bivvy as opposed to setting up a more complex tent. A tent also isn't going to magically add a vapor barrier to your sleeping bag.
The bivvy is supplemental, it's like trying to pit groundsheets against tents.';

'>>2728290
Nah, anon is right. You can very easily end up a little damp in goretex bivy, doubly so if you're wet when you get in. He is also right that use-case defines the utility. In the military or climbing, this is a relatively light and fully waterproof shelter when you don't have a real shelter.

>>2728255
Today not much. as many pointed out, tents are much more competitive in weight with modern materials and a waterproof bivy is no longer maximizing weight and space. There was a time when a weatherproof bivy was significantly lighter and smaller when tents were 4+ lbs. In addition, most people don't need a rapid sack to get 4hrs of sleep before fire watch. They would have at least much more comfort by using or pairing with a tarp.';

'>>2728334
>You can just guy out a tarp as opposed to setting up a more complex tent
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Fuck me you people are just screaming to be called out on your bullshit but the entire board is too dumb to do it.

>muh vapor barrier
HahahahahahahahahahshshshahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahhaa!';

'>>2728255
Light, low profile, quick setup/takedown and versatile setups.';

'>>2728241
>A bivy doesn’t have any ventilation except by your face (unless we’re talking about a bug/net buy and tarp combo, which is the best option for this issue).

Thats literally how most use a bivy, and how you should use it. Ideally you sleep with your bivy open, with a tarp over you, then use the bugnet if needed. Thats what a bivvy originally is and how it was originally used. Its literally just supposed to be a goretex outer for your sleeping bag, that offers some extra warmth.';

'>>2728026
2.5 to 3 lbs ok retard.

My non UL 1 and 2p trekking pole tents are all under 2lbs, and the poles are coming with anyways.

Even if I bring the carbon fiber tent poles I have my 1p is still under 2 lbs including those.';

'>>2728450
Anon... That's an UL tent. Unless you're just mistaken about your numbers. What model are you talking about?';

'>>2728422
Please literally tell us more about the origin of bivys and your vast experience with them. Also tell us literally more about how ultralighters are literally using them.';

'>>2728455
NTA
Try to keep up. Of course he’s talking about uktralight tents. This started because of what some /k/fag said:
>>2727836
>Ultralighters decided to start using them
That’s why weight is being discussed.

Also, several models were mentioned by another Anon here:
>>2728128';

'>>2728459
Ultralighters dont use bivys, retard. Stop talking like a fag.';

'>>2728466
Correct. Again, try to keep up.';

'>>2728422
>carrying a bivvy AND a tarp+guylines+stakes AND a bugnet

Just bring a fucking tent and stop your retarded military larp';

'>>2728472
You dont carry a tarp, you carry a rain poncho that doubles as a tarp. And you dont need stakes when your body keeps it down, and the bugnet is already integrated.
Truly dumb nigga hours in here.';

'>>2728468
So whats your point? Nobody here argues ultralighters use bivys, bivys are primarily used by military and bushcrafters. If ultralighters actually went for the lightest thing possible they wouldnt use a tent, theyd use a tarp.';

'>>2728486
So you're wrapping your breathable fabric in a non breathable layer in direct contact with it in some kind of gay larp burrito. Go outside fat fuck.

>>2728487
>Nobody here argues ultralighters use bivys
>>2727836';

'>>2728488
>>2728487

there is a very small subset of UL that use bivies for shelter, FKT folks aiming for weather windows where they really do just need to catch some sleep rapidly. Today anyway, this would be a silnylon fabric with fairly good breathability and and it's typical for someone aiming for a weather window where they won't see any severe rain. Other UL folks will use 'bug bivies' but these are, as someone else mentioned, just bug and draft protection under the tarp. Adds flexibility for some tarp or weather set ups versus a fixed shape inner tent.

>>2728486
So this is actually a decent thought for a combo. A bivy with significant weather protection can be paired with a very minimal tarp. For things moving toward 'shapeless inner bug tent' it requires more tarp. All about balance.';

'>>2728511
>people use them tho
Who?

>wrapping yourself in a tarp is a good idea
Haha';

'>>2728487
>So whats your point?
The point is you need to follow the conversation better.

>Nobody here argues ultralighters use bivys,
Someone already pointed this out, as have I. And sure as shit, some other retard chimed in and claimed it again.

>If ultralighters actually went for the lightest thing possible they wouldnt use a tent, theyd use a tarp.
A lot of them do. But you’re a fat fucking retarded child who doesn’t understand why most ultralight hikers use tents.';

'>>2728511
>So this is actually a decent thought for a combo

A decent thought if you like a cold miserable night saturated with condensation. Go outside.';

'>>2728488
>So you're wrapping your breathable fabric in a non breathable layer in direct contact with it in some kind of gay larp burrito.
The fuck are you talking about, are you retarded? Do you not know how to set up a tarp?';

'>>2728569
You would have to be ultraretarded if you condensate with a bivy + tarp. But aeeing as you think youre supposed to lay inside the bivy, completely encased, with a tarp wrapped around, Im not surprised. Are you even able to set up a regular tent, or do you just wrap it around you?';

'>>2728624
Are you setting up a proper tarp or wrapping a poncho around your bivvy? Make your fucking mind up.

>>2728627
>You dont carry a tarp, you carry a rain poncho that doubles as a tarp. And you dont need stakes when your body keeps it down

Is what the retard I was replying to said, that he wrap himself in his poncho, yes. Since we are talking about packing a full size tarp with supports, guylines and pegs as well as a bivvy, again, why not just take a fucking tent?';

'>>2728633
Where did I say you should wrap yourself inside of a tarp, dumb fuck retard learn to read.';

'>>2728396
Bros never fucked around with a tarp for two hours trying to get it wind proof in an awkward spot. Only for the wind to change. Tents are much more straight forward.

t.long time tarp & bivvy fag';

'>>2728697
>you don’t need stakes when your body keeps it down.';

'>>2727165
I got my hands on a woodland one in good condition, been using it for about three years now. Can recommend.';

'>>2728727
Yeah, your body keeps the *bivy* down, you mongoloid nigger. You keep the poncho up with ROPE. Hang yourself, buffoon.';

'>>2728790
I think everything you’ve posted has been theorycrafted bullshit that you pulled from random bushcraft survivalist websites and YouTube videos. This isn’t a case of being able to trick everyone; we know you’re just making stuff up.

And you don’t know what an antecedent is.';

'>>2728792
NTA but
>reddit spacing
Yeah, you're retarded';

'>>2728792
Yeah yeah, enough of your tardrambling, yap yap.
>M-muh theorycrafting
Only dumb niggers like you who incorrectly used equipment for then to "inform" others about why that equipment is bad is the pinnacle of dunning kruger. I'm instead gonna inform you as to how a bivy is used, and its roots, so you too might be able to grasp what its for. A bivy is an outter waterproof shell for your sleeping bag, thats its. Some people decided to add hoops to that bivy so it doesnt rest on your face. Some people added a bug net so it could be ventilated and be shielded from bugs. Some people found out that they could shield themselves extra by using their poncho as a tarp. This also gives you the option to use the poncho as a hammock. This whole setup is versatile and is only hindered by your inability to think creatively. <-- this is where you issue stems from. You cannot find good camp unless its a dedicated camping spot, and you cannot setup a shelter unless given instructions to. You are a faggot. I understand why you project onto others that theyre youtube kiddos, cause thats exactly what you are. Now go back to watching gear reviews, summer is here and you are not going out.';

'>>2727190
contrarion retard faggot';

'>>2728863
>A bivy is an outter waterproof shell for your sleeping bag, thats its.

Tell it to >>2728026';

'>>2728863
>you cannot setup a shelter unless given instructions to
I sew my own shelter. It doesn’t have instructions on how to set it up. It didn’t even have instructions on how to make it (it’s kind of unique).';

'>>2728876
Those two are not the same: waterproof =/= keep you dry.';

'>>2728877
LOL';

'>>2728882
We’re reaching levels of pedantic bullshit we never thought possible!';

'>>2728882
Shit, is that why I keep getting rained on when I'm in my house?';

'>>2728899
Its not pedantic, its a fundamental difference. A similar difference to a basic backpack and a drybag.
>>2728912
If you open the roof, then yes.';

'>>2728256
You spoke too soon, Anon. See: >>2728882';

'>>2728790
Ok so you are carrying guy lines, stakes and poles too because if there's no trees you have nowhere to string your tarp. I guess you could double up trekking poles but im sure you seethe about those too. So just bring a tent. Again.

>>2728863
>This also gives you the option to use the poncho as a hammock

Holy fucking LOL. Anywhere you can set up your bivvy and tarp I can also set up my tent and be much more comfortable and stay properly dry. Also I don't know if you have ever used a poncho for a tarp because it is so fucking not a replacement for a proper tarp. It's not large enough, the shape is dog shit, there's no proper guyout points or strong pockets to hold poles.';

'>>2728882
wut?';

'>>2729023
>wut?
I think he means like PVC or something is 100% waterproof, but you're going to be damp almost immediately.';

'>>2728974
I've sat out many storms under a tarp. In real full on weather it's unpleasant but in most storms it's great, just sit there and watch the storm pass. Nothing wrong with it m8. Use a tent if you want I don't care, a tarp is nice because you can stuysee the views, still see the little plants and rocks and lichen. You can have a wee fire just there. Going /out/ doesn't have to be optimised for efficiency, you're not being judged.';

'>>2728974
>It's not large enough, the shape is dog shit, there's no proper guyout points or strong pockets to hold poles.
Yeah, if you use those cheap ponchos then sure, use a Jerven, Helsport, or Dovre poncho and you got something thats wide and strong enough.
>Anywhere you can set up your bivvy and tarp I can also set up my tent and be much more comfortable and stay properly dry
And it will take you more time, be less versatile, and not be low profile.';

'>>2729023
There's a difference between something thats meant to keep your dry, and something thats waterproof. The original bivys are an example, theyre meant to keep your sleeping bag dry from nature, but its not waterproof';

'>>2729094
Nu-hikers dont actually wanna be in nature and experience it fully. They need their walls to feel safe from the moss and grass.';

'>>2729104
>a tent takes more time to set up than a tarp
lol
>it’s less versatile
Please explain which weather co dictions would necessitate a tent being more versatile.
>not as low profile
LMAO';

'>>2729105
Can water permeate the material from which they’re made? No, because they’re waterproof. They’re made out of waterproof material because they’re designed to keep you dry.';

'>>2729094
>you're not being judged
Have you forgotten where you are?';

'>>2729163
Even before condensation you'll be sweating and exhaling at least a quarter liter of water into that bivvy.';

'>>2729201
>sweat and condensation
These aren’t issues in the extremely small niche circumstances for which bivies were designed (low humidity, low temperature)';

'>>2729201
>condensation
>exhaling
You can just say you've never used one, it's okay big guy';

'>>2729162
Full on cope.';

'>>2729201
Hahahahaha, all these neverouts exposing themselves today';

'>>2729270
Seethe';

'>>2729281
Yeah, that too';

'>>2729105
>There's a difference between something thats meant to keep your dry, and something thats waterproof.
So… things that are waterproof aren’t designed to keep people dry? Seriously bro, what the fuck?';

'>>2729420
No, thats not what I said. Thats what your retarded brain managed to put together. I said: there is a fundamental difference between something meant to keep your dry, and something waterproof. Something thats waterproof will generally keep you dry, but only as far as condensation/sweat is allowed to air.';

'>>2729429
>I never said “there's a difference between something thats meant to keep your dry, and something thats waterproof.”
>I said “there is a fundamental difference between something meant to keep your dry, and something waterproof.”
Ok Anon, you win. Things that are meant to keep you dry aren’t the same as things that are waterproof, and items made from waterproof materials (like bivies) aren’t designed to keep you dry.

Also, you’re absolutely right about bivies. Whatever you say.';

'>>2729432
Yeah, resort to absurdum by making up one quote and then quote me next, be surprised when they magically contradict each other. Nice trick redditape.';

'>>2729437
>making up a quote
>literal copy and paste
You’re right though. Waterproof things aren’t designed to keep you dry. It’s ridiculous to think so.';

'>>2729442
My cousin drowned because he got on a boat. We all told him the water would just pass right through the hull, but he insisted it was waterproof. Such a shame.';