'>>92632534
>remains
it was mediocre then and they made it shit now';

'>>92632556
Anon get your eyes checked the OP has classic ravenloft art
>it was mediocre
seething forgotten realms user';

'>>92632534
Didn't White Wolf publish 3e Ravenloft material though?';

'>>92632639
Their Sword & Sorcery subdivision did. And yeah, it's the only time they have made an actually good gothic setting.';

'>>92632588
>seething forgotten realms user
incorrect, just a general ad&d hater';

'>>92632534
One of the two good settings for D&D';

'>>92632534
Is "Vampire: Dark Ages" any good?';

'>>92632534
Lion Rampart's Ars Magica was here.

visigoths>victorian revancisim.';

'>>92633908
Alright. I'll bite. What's the other one?';

'>>92632534
>Mormon rewrite of Castle Amber with Count Chocula
yawn, it was hack plagiarism then, even worse now';

'>>92637485
I kinda liked it.';

'>>92632534
At least it was before WotC fucked everything up.';

'>>92637485
Kind of confusing depending on the splat books available. Combination disciplines and discipline flaws were cool. Less overt Masquerade and Monster teams offered a lot more player clan combinations than the modern game.

The system is still WW slop that degenerates into everyone being superheroes with fangs and punching every problem. Or biting every problem. The other end of the spectrum is faffing about with pretentious roleplay, peeling pack schemes like layers of an onion, only to find that the pretense of mystery was the only real plot, kind of like a JJ Abrams movie. Pride and Prejudice, only at night, every character is Lydia and Lydia is an ugly fat goth chick or trans.';

'>>92637599
Réia, a setting for 3.5
Réia is based on 9th century Europe, and tries to simulate real historical events in a fantasy world';

'>>92632534
Do you even know what makes something "gothic horror"?';

'>>92642734
>Castles
>Night
>Romantic themes
>Tragedy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcZCfnrluvY';

'For me it´s a toss up between Ravenloft and classic Innistrad.

>>92642009
That a third party setting or where can I find it? Been trying to make something with frankish empire aesthetics for years.';

'>>92643491
Third party
I forgot to mention, but it's in portuguese, but google translator seems to work with no problems. You can find the pdf pretty easly "Réia cenário de campanha biblioteca elfica"';

'>>92632534
The reason Domains of Dread was good is because it wasn't JUST Gothic, it was dark fantasy and horror in general.
>want to do a roughly trad dark fantasy with an evil lich antagonist? Yep we got that
>You want to face oni and headless ghosts in a samurai island cursed to inevitably sink beneath the waves? We got that
>You want to try and escape from a horrific asylum where you were unjustly imprisoned? we got that
>Want to be in a grimdark campaign about the horrors of eternal war under an immortal tyrant? we got that
>wat to do intrigue and duelling in a country ruled by poisoners and diabolists? we got that
>Want to do dark pirates trapped in a sargasso sea trying to escape from ghost ships, sea monsters, and the Kraken? Gotcha covered
Each domain had a theme and a limited bestiary and it gave them character. SOVL as the kids say.';

'>>92643059';

'>>92632534
>freak shit gets outcast rating and outright killed on sight by some domains
>murder hoboing gets punished in-universe
>big titty goth ladies
KINO';

'>>92643938
>JUST Gothic, it was dark fantasy and horror in general.
Those are inside the Gothic genre.';

'>>92632556
fpbp';

'Any good gothic fantasy come out recently? I enjoyed the Empire of the Vampire series.';

'>>92642734
The Eternal City falling to barbarians?';

'>>92642734
Sex with evil goth women';

'Rate my gothic setting:

>You have a bunch of classical empires that have a wide pantheon of gods being all enlightened and shit
>Suddenly Demons and a thousand years of darkness
>Heaven sends armies of angels to teach mankind (or more specifically womankind) white magic, which allows them to fight off all the demons and monsters.
>Society reorganizes into semi-theocratic-semi-feudal organization, where the church is run by all women (men can attain the church equivalent of a barony before they need a vagina-pass), all female paladins work directly for the church, and male knightly orders and monster hunters tend to deal with more localized threats and are more aligned with the church than working for them. The old gods are still venerated, but essentially demoted while worship of angels and heaven takes precedence. The Church basically splits along boundary lines as they have a pretty heavy influence in secular politics (needing to bless the reign of kings and such), so there's broadly three of them. One vaguely Catholic for an HRE styled nation, one vaguely Orthodox for a fantasy-Byzantium that basically is a miltiary junta with a puppet emperor, and one vaguely islamic in a sultanate (known for the greater degree of syncretism and mysticism they practice).
>Numerous Archdemons that function similar to Daedric Lords like handing out black magic to people around them (which in contrast to white magic is unisex), opposed by the inquisition and knightly orders. Some of the Archdemons are worse to deal with- the Succubus Lord is less of a problem than the Plague-Rot Lord for instance.
>The main HRE faction has a number of mega-castles on their mountainous border with the plains where barbarians and monsters roam called the Long Wall. Some of the barbarians may convert or trade with them, but it's effectively the frontier and first line of defense.';

'>>92637485
Yes but the metaplot is arguably even thicker than it was in regular VtM';

'>>92652454
>Non-Human races didn't show up until the Dark Ages, there are Humans, Pastoral Giants (need an origin for them), Elves (offspring of Fey who are neutral angels banished to the mortal ream and humans) who are nature worshippers with elemental magic, Dwarves (I need an origin for them, was thinking they are responsible for all enchanted weapons, and they have an originalist religion focused on the 'creator god' who made the world) who also double as Halflings (a Dwarf turns into a Halfling when he becomes a godless liberal, shaves his beard, and moves to the surface), Orcs (who were turned into demonic super-soldiers by the Orc Lord during the dark ages, with equivalent Ogres, Goblins, and Dark Elves).

Thoughts?';

'>>92652454
>>92652492
>Here's my setting of the gothic genre, a genre characterized by the contrast of the mundane and the supernatural which menaces it, the dark personal horrors faced by the protagonists, and the moral, social, and physical decay of the world around them
>With that in mind, here's my dwarves, orcs, elves-
o o f';

'>>92642734
>>92643059
>>92643938
>>92645051
>>92644823
>>92649045
>>92652454
>>92653569
If you haven't read the Castle of Otranto, The Mysteries of Udolpho, the Monk and Melmoth the Wanderer then you have basically no idea what gothic fiction is
>b-but frankenstein! but dracula
The first is a novel with gothic elements but isn't a gothic novel. The latter came out 90 years after the golden age of gothic fiction ended. It's like trying to know what noir movies are by watching sin city and blade runner. You can tell when someone has a surface level knowledge of gothic fiction when they associate it all with vampires when the most prominent horror in gothic fiction has always been the ghost/spectre';

'>>92653680
No >The Manuscript Found in Saragossa
shame on you';

'>>92652454
>>92652492
Sounds good. Any reason why you decided to give more powerful magic to females? Are your main characters female? Putting many green-skins can be against the setting tho. And making halflings dwarves is weird.';

'>>92653680
All those novels are Gothic. Castle of Otranto and other stuff just happen to be early Gothic rather than Victorian Gothic. Implying you aren't just baiting for yous.';

'>>92653902
Uses gothic elements but is not purely gothic
>>92654190
Dracula is gothic but gothic revival rather than part of the original gothic trend
Frankenstein is not gothic
>muh early gothic
No, it's original gothic. Calling the mysteries of udolpho "early gothic" is like calling the maltese falcon "early noir" or the searchers "early western"';

'>>92654162
Largely cause I like nuns and thought 'how would one maximize the number of nuns in a setting?'

I'd call myself a feminist, but I think it's interesting to explore a setting where the sexes have different social expectations to them (or at the very least I think it's boring and lazy to just transplant modern social norms onto a setting), so broadly social roles are similar to the middle ages outside of religious affairs (though divorce laws are somewhat more open, but one has to prove fault, and get permission from a priest). But running church politics is seen as being in the 'female sphere', and non Paladin/Inquisition woman-warriors are considered uncommon and unusual.

Main characters can be male or female depending on the circumstance. Like anyone in the domain of the church will be a woman unless a lower-ranking male priest factors in (like maybe he's in charge of a large historic cathedral and that factors into the plot). Influential nobles can be male or female (though a queen will get less respect than a king unless she goes into full girlboss mode), while men will occupy all the non-church military roles (included the aforementioned monster-hunters and knightly orders). A few women might be attached to them as non-combattants though (cause if a woman wanted to kill monsters why wouldn't she become a Paladin?) like as a researcher, or healer, or cook. Men can play similar support roles in church-organizations too (and in fact mature paladin x femboy paige is considered a cliche stereotype in universe- Paladins take vows of chastity while they serve, but they can retire and marry at any time, and again the stereotype is when they do they are quite babycrazy).

For halflings and dwarves, I don't see the point in having them have separate origins when they are both short-people races, it seems way simpler to combine them and say the difference is cultural.';

'>>92654490
Are you autistic? Movements last for decades and even centuries. There's no contradiction between thinking Victorian and Regency Gothic aren't the same genre. Like saying there wasn't early Romanesque or early Romanticism.
>Frankenstein is not gothic
Shitposting.';

'>>92632534
do goth girls go to the tabletop games for this?
Would it be a good way to pick up goth girls?';

'>>92654495
>Largely cause I like nuns
A man of CULTURE I see. Couldn't come up with a better reason. Did you come up with any reason why the women were given all the magic roles by angels? Like, there was a deity favouring them?
>it seems way simpler to combine them and say the difference is cultural.
I think you'd would be better off by giving halflings another distintive origin. Because they really are a different race from dwarves even if they're both short.';

'>>92632534
I'm wrtting a gothic setting inspired on Bloodborne, Berserk and Witcher.
Just wait a until it's finished, it will blow your mind.';

'>>92642734
silence coomer.';

'>>92661178
Can I steal it?';

'>>92661387
Is this more your speed?';

'>>92661543
a cat is fine too';

'>>92632689
WoD's not Gothic in the first place.';

'>>92632534
Can a vampire be a thug?';

'>>92632534
It single-handedly saved D&D from dying in obscurity of being an autistic maze-running game, into an actual fully fledged roleplaying experience. People like to give Gygax credit, but his dungeons always fucking sucked. Ravenloft introduced actual building architecture, compellingly written and sympathetic big-bads, and actually inspired and moody settings.

OG Ravenloft is beloved for a reason, because before it released, D&D was still unfinished, thematically speaking.';

'>>92655919
>Are you autistic? Movements last for decades and even centuries. There's no contradiction between thinking Victorian and Regency Gothic aren't the same genre. Like saying there wasn't early Romanesque or early Romanticism.
Confirmed for being a retard
Movements don't last for decades or even centuries. Film Noir lasted 40 years at most. Romanticism lasted about 80 years at most
Gothic literature lasted from the publication of the castle of otranto in 1764 until the begininng of the 1810s where it began dying and was pretty much dead in the popular culture in the 1830s. Of course it never really died out, but gothic literature went from being the most popular form of literature to being seen as "trashy" and not something those of high society read. the year 1800 was the golden age of the gothic novel and it was only downhill from there.
Literary movements rise and fall and end all the time, retard.
It appears to me that you don't know anything about gothic literature if you think frankenstein is a gothic novel. Using gothic elements does not a gothic novel make.';

'>>92667286
isn't that the Brujah from VtM entire gimmick?';

'>>92667286
My brother in quick-release Percocets, how can a vampire NOT be a thug?';

'Speaking of Ravenloft and White Wolf, anyone ever run a Time of Unparalleled Darkness campaign in the vein of Gehenna?';

'>>92657147
Yeah- maybe something like the Archangels in charge of heaven assume that women are more reasonable and temperate. I don't believe this (I'm a feminist) but I could see the churches scripture citing this as the reason.

>Because they really are a different race from dwarves even if they're both short.
Well make the argument for me.

I haven't come up with an origin for dwarfs yet, but I was thinking they have a sort of 'originalist' version of the religion where they worship the 'creator' that made the world, wheras the Church aknowledges them doesn't place much importance to that figure. So they are viewed like halfway between jews and orthodox christians- they aren't strictly heretics, but they are sort of doing the religion wrong, but in a way that they are left to their own devices.

Conservative dwarves keep a lot of odd rituals to themselves such as not shaving their beards, live underground, and have a monopoly on Runic Magic that is where everyone (who is not a demon worshipper) gets enchanted weapons and armor.

However as said I was thinking once a dwarf moves to the surface and forsakes his dwarvish culture and rituals, assimilating with the culture of the surface, they are instead deemed halflings, and they carve out niches in banking, smithing and agriculture.';

'>>92669025
>Film Noir lasted 40 years at most.
Nobody is talking about that faux media, LARPer. Movies have only existed for a century, they don't have an ounce of the history of literary or architectural movements. Baroque, Romanesque, Romanticism and Gothic are all movements that existed for decades and centuries.
>literature went from being the most popular form of literature to being seen as "trashy" and not something those of high society read.
Movements are not an unaltered line in time, they always experience highs and downs. But the tradition is what maintains the movement alive.
>It appears to me that you don't know anything about gothic literature if you think frankenstein is a gothic novel.
Your snobbish and subjective appreciations are not the canon by which the genre is defined, you little snob.';

'>>92632534
Sure. It’s a fun one.';

'>>92632534
I can't take a gothic setting seriously if it has gay vampires, sorry, but I just can't.';

'>>92642734
retard just look at the definition of wikipedia';

'>>92632534
Thread theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BfEBEN6pW4';

'>>92671610
Do the women have access to offensive magic or only to defensive magic? Can they submit the men if they wanted to?
>Well make the argument for me.
Halflings are rural easy going people. Dwarves are autists from the mountains. There are not the same.';

'>>92676773
Mostly defensive but with some pretty high-power offensive skills they can unlock, but most of those are more effective against practitioners of the dark arts.

What do you mean by submit?

Like I said it's a cultural difference. Americans and Chinese are both homo-sapiens, but they have opposite cultures right? So no reason why dwarves that move to the surface can't change their culture. Infact- that'd be a big part of the deal- conservative dwarves dismiss assimilated surface-dwarves as 'not real dwarves' hence they are instead viewed as halflings.';

'>>92639227
>The other end of the spectrum is faffing about with pretentious roleplay, peeling pack schemes like layers of an onion, only to find that the pretense of mystery was the only real plot, kind of like a JJ Abrams movie. Pride and Prejudice, only at night, every character is Lydia and Lydia is an ugly fat goth chick or trans.
Underrated post.';

'>>92676863
>What do you mean by submit?
As if they have a matriarchal society that benefits them the most? And can make their will prevail.
>are both homo-sapiens
Don't know if it's a good idea to think about fantasy races in evolutionary/real world terms. It fucks with the fluff.';

'>>92676954
No- it's pretty patriarchal in the rest of society outside the church. Not to an extreme- women have pretty favorable divorce laws, and wife-beating is illegal. Also- white magic means a lower infant mortality so women can afford to seek dayjobs.

But men are still seen as having more say in a marriage, inheritance tends to be along male lines, and men dominate military professions that aren't the paladins, alongside most professions (book binding might be an exception because I was thinking monasteries and nunneries have a monopoly on printing presses). Not to say there are no women in other professions, just that they'd be seen as uncommon and face a lot of pressure.

I don't see why not- my point being that humans have wildly divergent cultures, so I don't see why dwarves can't. I was thinking a similar thing with elves- they would be very nature and hippy dippy and worshipping elemental ancestor spirits. Very classic wood-elf fair, but then there'd also be more assimilated 'City-elf' types (though in an aversion no elf-slaves as the races would be treated pretty equal if they're falling the correct religion).';

'>>92677966
What sense does it make that women being more powerful in magic society still remains largely patriarchal?';

'Is this a Nightwish thread?';

'>>92632534
VtM, specifically VtM is a good gothic setting. Unfortunately, it's trapped in a straight up bad system (and not even fun-bad like CP2020) and surrounded by one of the worst fanbases in Tabletop.';

'It seems this thread needs to become a Nightwish thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4A5HwMOfW8&pp=ygUYbmlnaHR3aXNoIHRoZSBjYXJwZW50ZXIg

inb4 NW is fake goth - who cares?';

'>>92672807
>Nobody is talking about that faux media, LARPer. Movies have only existed for a century, they don't have an ounce of the history of literary or architectural movements. Baroque, Romanesque, Romanticism and Gothic are all movements that existed for decades and centuries.
COPE
And you're completely wrong
Romanticism lasted for less then a century. Other literary movements like the decadents lasted for twenty years.
>posting castlevania and calling me a snob
yup, called it, ESL detected. you're an ESL retard who has never even read a gothic novel before and think you know anything about the genre
you're fucking pathetic. gothic literature was dead in popular culture by the year 1840
>b-but dracula! but penny dreadfuls
there are people who still make silent movies it doesn't mean silent movies are still a popular thing for people to go watch, ESL';

'>>92682310
>Name calling and le ESL reddit resort
I rest my case. Last (You).';

'>>92678170
Because that power is largely in the domain of the church- just cause a woman HAS the capacity for white-magic doesn't necessarily mean she'll use it, or even if she does, use it to fight. So the bulk of armies are still male-dominated (I might think men and women have the same average strength- but armies are male dominant for a reason- one of them being that you need fewer men to repopulate after a war than women). And while the church is highly influential, it doesn't change how dynastic kingly politics operate, meaning nobles act about the same as they would otherwise.';

'>>92682383
I accept your concession ESL';

'>>92632534
Based setting or the most based setting?';

'Ravenloft?';

'>>92632534
Boo hiss';