'I usually describe it as Tropico but far more autistic. You do plan and build detailed cities, but to do so you need a solid logistical chain for most all of the main construction materials, which in turn need their own detailed construction and production chains.

Cool game overall, even if I don't feel like I'd ever truly left the early-mid game, doubly so in the new updates with lots of stuff now locked behind research';

'A mixture of both?
It has more in depth logistics than transport tycoon that requires depots and distribution. The production chains are relatively simple with cars and other vehicles being the most complex, I've never gotten to cars but can attest that its as deep as you want it to be.

Its ironically the most complex city builder while also providing a good quality logistical sim that can feel rewarding once you overcome the UI and slightly ugly visuals (especially AA looks bad).';

'>>1741422
Is it related to Tropico in any way? The UI looks like it is straight out of Tropico.';

'>>1741414
This is the only hooded horse game that actually is anything close to a game, mostly because it was pretty far along its release journey by the time that shovelware publisher got anywhere near it';

'>>1741414
Yes.';

'>>1741459
They both use commie aesthetic
One is american tropical islands
One is slavic frozen hellholes in eastern Europe';

'>Is Workers & Resources a city builder or an autismo logistics simulator?
It's both. It's a city builder where autismo attention to logistics will allow you to have a good time.
Pic related is a rail yard I decided to make. I didn't need to go as autismo on the design or layout but if you're playing the mode where you have to construct things yourself you want to try to take everything you can in to account';

'>>1741690
Properly scaling things is hard to do the first time. That looks absolutely (appropriately) massive.';

'I've been doing the tutorial campaign. I was surprised to see the game advising me to attribute a farm to 10 small fields. I always figured Medium fields/large fields were more efficient. Has anyone figured out the economies of scale on this?';

'>>1741690
>>1743147
Yeah, the scale of the game is really different. Compared to other city builder games that tend to make things smaller and more abstracted here your, say, steel mill and all the supporting infrastructure is going to be absolutely massive.';

'>>1741414';

'>>1743147
Thank you, it's quite a beast and I'm looking forward to it getting significant traffic as I expand to the rest of the map. Hopefully my capital will extend to cover the entire screen in pic rel
>>1744567
Exactly. The amount of trains I need to feed a fully operating steel mill is crazy. On top of the massive amount of coal and iron, I need to bring all the people around';

'>>1741414
Both. You control everything from buying individual garbage trucks and setting up their routes, to recycling, to buying fucking boring machines in order to make your own subway systems.';

'>>1744902
whats your day job like?';

'>>1744902
i suppose thats why soviets built an entire city around steel processing like magnitogorsk';

'>>1745096
Logistics';

'Are 15 oil wells and ten 1500t oil tanks overkill for 1 Large Chemical Plant, 2 plastic factories, and an oil refinery?';

'>>1746832
Do the math anon. You don't need us for that.';

'>>1741414
It goes hard on the autismo but you can ease yourself into it until you learn the systems by setting it up so it’s almost impossible to lose and you have essentially infinite resources to recover when you inevitably fuck up somewhere.';

'>>1746832
A day is 60 seconds, movement speeds are realtime for their distances so for example it takes something traveling 60 km/h 1 minute aka 1 day to travel 1 km
The production numbers given for buildings assume they've got 100% productivity 100% of the time which is only possible with highly loyal and educated populations with near perfect passenger access, so they can effectively be treated as unreachable bounds.
You should be able to figure it out based on this.';

'>>1747667
>>1747587
>A day is 60 seconds
That's what I needed to know, the different rates of time for different mechanics in this game has me second guessing the math on occasion.';

'>>1747669
>He thinks that citizens are based off time
And time mentioned when you have a selected citizen is a lie and doesn't relate to anything as far as I can tell. For example, if a citizen can travel for four hours to his job how far can he go?
I have no idea, because it isn't four seconds of travel, it isn't a set distance, and it isn't even a set, separate amount of time. How quickly those four hours pass depends on the method of travel and I know that how long they work depends on how long they travel so it doesn't relate directly to work hours either. Since worker hours differ as well there is no way to calculate worker input requirements.
I love this game, but whichever slovak fuck designed the time systems needs to be shot.';

'>>1744248
Lots of small farms means more trips back and forth but the individual fields get sown quicker so they get harvested sooner and there's less risk of losing crops to winter. The ultimate autism efficiency involves using small/medium fields to start the season and then organizing them correctly so that tractors will go directly to an adjacent bigger field after.';

'Why won't my autism let me turn any settings off?
I play with realism mode on except money on medium instead of hard and fires on normal instead of frequent. Oh, also 1960.
Makes starting a new city very slow and difficult.';

'>>1749291
Realism mode makes you engage with mechanics that you could otherwise skip. It'd be like playing factorio with your starter production lines already set up';

'Is moving tourists by air profitable? They pay for transit I've seen, but aircraft take comical amounts of fuel.';

'>>1749991
It's the most reliable way to get masses of tourists exactly where you want them, and more importantly it's the only reason to build an airport.';

'>>1749991
With full loads, airplanes are more fuel efficient than buses and even some trains/ships. It is the helicopters that have terrible fuel economy. I am not sure if moving tourists is profitable on any mode of transit, but if it is, then airplanes should be the best at it thanks to their speed.

>>1750037
>it's the only reason to build an airport
They have a few other uses, like getting access to the western border early on without a dirt road or dumping into a remote area for construction. Airplanes are invaluable on the bigger maps.';

'>>1750136
>or dumping
a lot of stuff/workers
>into a remote area for construction';

'Is there a way to "buffer" workers? e.g. you have a bunch of industry attached to a bus stop, and you have large buses. Is there a way, when all the industry is full, to unload the workers anyways and have them walk to work when a job opens?';

'>>1750390
Yes. The simplest way to do this is to build a station nearby and have the bus make two stops at it where the first stop just unloads and the second forces everyone off. Workers will immediately walk to any empty jobs while the rest will wait an hour at the station and then check for any open jobs before teleporting home.

You can also build a pair of stations, link them to each other and the nearby workplaces, and set the stations' preference to 0%. Workers will endlessly circulate between the stations until a job opens up. This works really well for storing foreign workers without much issues, but citizen workers will get a happiness debuff if they stay there too long and they tend to have amplified needs when they finally get a job.

There are other methods too, but they are pretty complicated, and I don't feel like explaining them right now.';

'>>1750440
Wait, so bus stations work differently than bus stops?';

'>>1750449
No they're the same. Anon probably didn't realize he used different terms.
Any passenger station will work, you can send a bus to unload at a train station or passenger cableway without issue (if it has a road connection of course).';

'>>1750556
>>1750440
Thanks, it seems to have helped a little.
I forget where I heard it but apparently it's better to not stock hotels with anything and let tourists buy from restaurants and cafes, does anyone know the math as to why? It seems to check out experimentally, when I started stocking hotels my income dropped by something like 40%.';

'>>1750605
I assume it's the prices you set.
My strategy is to minimize all the attraction prices (so my citizens can get the most benefit from them, dual-use) and then set the hotel prices as high as will keep the hotels full.';

'>>1750677
That's a terrible strategy.
Attractions generally have very bad worker ratios and citizens don't pay anything and thus don't benefit from low prices. What you're thus doing is ensuring inefficient buildings are used as much as possible.
You should segregate tourist services from citizen services and only build attractions that don't make a lot of money if you need more tourists.';

'>>1750683
>citizens don't pay anything and thus don't benefit from low prices
They can use them more often. This raising their happiness when they roll alcohol or prayer needs.';

'>>1750903
Chew you havisfaction a singlicious satisfact to snack that up';

'>>1741459
Funnily enough, they're pretty closely related in that they have very little 'gamey' elements like trying to increase citizen ranks, attract richer citizens, balance your Feng Shui or other things you see in Anno or SimCity style city builders. I started city building with Tropico 5 and moved onto W&R and I'd say it's the same core principles of balancing citizen needs, logistics and making money just way more autistic and advanced.';

'>>1750979
No, almost nothing in the game is documented. Do you have any evidence that high-priced attractions net more money than high priced hotels?';

'>>1751217
No, other than completely unreliable experimental observations. Thus me asking that, and never stating it as fact. What a weird comeback';

'>>1751218
Pretty confident with that "terrible strategy" statement.';

'>>1751222
Oh yes, I am. This doesn't hinge on my hotel speculation/vague memory at all. Let me repost my strategy;
>Attractions generally have very bad worker ratios and citizens don't pay anything and thus don't benefit from low prices. What you're thus doing is ensuring inefficient buildings are used as much as possible.
Facets mentioned; attractions, worker ratios, tourist/citizen fulfillment separation
>You should segregate tourist services from citizen services and only build attractions that don't make a lot of money if you need more tourists.
Facets mentioned; tourist/citizen amenities, implicitly tourist ratings
You will note none of these are mentioned; Hotels, pricing, comparison of income between hotels and cafes/restaurants.
Does this clear up your confusion?';

'>Build one police station
>Completely overwhelemed with crime
>Build another on the other side of the residential block
>solves them faster than they come in
>can't transfer crime';

'>>1751225
I don't think you understand that attractions ARE citizen services. I want my citizens to use them as much as possible so the services that I don't provide (alcohol and prayer) get filled by attractions instead of causing unhappiness due to an unfulfilled need.';

'>>1751249
I have addressed them being citizen services multiple times. It takes less workers to provide the services with regular buildings, you mention alcohol so the pub is 1:12 workers to services, cafes are 1:7-1:10. Culture builds are MUCH more skewed, and no vanilla buildables provide faith needs, only static churches.
Your strategy (letting citizens use cafes and similar) is better than unhappy citizens of course, but that doesn't mean it isn't a terrible strategy.';

'>no vanilla buildables provide faith needs
You clearly don't understand how attractions work for citizens so I'm going to stop arguing about it. You win, providing attractions to citizens is a terrible strategy.';

'>>1741414
it's Tropico for Factorio fans';

'>>1751289
>so I'm going to stop arguing about it.
Don't worry anon, I will take up the mantle, but you may want to stay a while and listen too.

>>1751254
>and no vanilla buildables provide faith needs, only static churches.
Attractions that list an attraction type like museums, carousels, etc. can be used by citizens to satisfy sports, culture, drinking, or prayer, but not all attractions have them (look in the building selection menu popup. Picrel). The attractions without a listed attraction type function just like normal service buildings do for citizens, but tourists will get a zero star rating for that portion of their trip and you cannot change the price they pay at them, which is why attractions without an attraction type exist.

Citizens also have a cool down for each attraction type that is set by the building they used it at, where they cannot use the attraction type again anywhere until the cool down ends. Citizens can still use attractions like normal service buildings to satisfy a specific need served there, except for a rare few buildings that forbid citizens from using the building at all if their attraction type cool down is still ongoing, like the art gallery.

>>1750903
>They can use them more often. This raising their happiness when they roll alcohol or prayer needs.
The price doesn't affect the length of the cool down and is only for manipulating tourist fees and ratings. You can find the time each building sets for the cool down in the attraction's config file as the number after the tag that defines the attraction type used, like $ATTRACTIVE_TYPE_SWIM 4 for the indoor pool.';

'cont'd from >>1751303
>>1750605
>I forget where I heard it but apparently it's better to not stock hotels with anything and let tourists buy from restaurants and cafes, does anyone know the math as to why?
This depends on the ratings you can get for hotels and cafes/bars, and the idea is to maximize the average ratings of tourist vacations so you can get more of them with higher fees. Tourists give a rating for each need they fulfill, including staying at the hotel, but this rating is given by the building they satisfy the need at. If a tourist eats food and drinks alcohol at their hotel, then they will add the hotel's rating onto their trip score three times, or four if they also get meat. You could set up really nice hotels and have tourists eat and drink there to get the high rating multiple times, or you can have them stay in a crappy hotel and have them and others go to a restaurant for high food/meat ratings and to bars (or to an attraction type) for high alcohol ratings.

The really nice hotels require a good setup to get their highest ratings and they use a lot more workers per tourist than the lower rated hotels, which you can stick pretty much anywhere that isn't polluted and save the one nice spot in your republic for the highly rated attractions, restaurants, and bars. Either way, you'll have higher average vacation ratings, which will let you drive prices up more before you don't get enough tourists to fill your hotels.

>>1750556
I meant stations as places that citizens can get wait at and stops as entries in a vehicle's line/schedule.';

'>>1751303
>The attractions without a listed attraction type function just like normal service buildings do for citizens, but tourists will get a zero star rating for that portion of their trip and you cannot change the price they pay at them,
Sorry anons, I meant to say that tourists will not give a rating for normal service buildings and you cannot change the price they pay at them, which is why attractions without an attraction type exist.';

'>>1741414
It's really not as crazy as people make it seem. Getting your initial construction industry set up isn't that complex even in cosmonaut mode. It's a fun payoff, but I tend to peter out once I get past the initial city.';

'>>1751303
>and you cannot change the price they pay at them, which is why attractions without an attraction type exist.
different anon and i haven't gone into attractions yet, but is that a good thing that you aren't able to change the price they pay?';

'>>1751323
I am not sure if you saw >>1751319
or >>1751315
but I will assume you did.

>is that a good thing that you aren't able to change the price they pay?
No. This means you cannot lower prices to raise the average trip score and get more tourists in, and you cannot raise prices to get more money if you have too many tourists wanting to enter. For citizens it doesn't matter because they do not pay money for any services (at least it is not simulated like that).';

'>>1745167
it looks like shit, why did I buy this game..I'd rather pixel graphics';

'>>1751372
Trains
Factories
Trains moving things to and from factories';

'>>1751372
That's lowered graphics, here's a shot of the area with everything turned up and depth of field off';

'>>1751388
>>1751397
I'm just realizing now that the screenshots from Slovakia the show during the loading screens aren't even in-game photoshots..f';

'>>1751403';

'>>1749291
Good. I've managed to get to a point where I have a city and am making money in 1964 on hard money. You just need to know how to optimize traffic, vehicle utilization and construction materials logistics. Also built as close to the customs house as possible and space everything just as much apart, as pollution lets you. Instantly pivot to a gravel into concrete/prefabs/asphalt industry for domestic use as soon as you're making profit on your starting industry';

'I wish the big chemical plant was available when I started this game, would have saved me a lot of logistic problems';

'>>1755263
I wish they had balanced it so that it wasn't a straight upgrade from the small chemical plants.';

'muh niche';

'>>1755665
Why does the small prison have better worker ratios than the normal one?
The balance is fucking weird.';

'>>1755910
>Small prison: 45 prisoners / 15 workers = 3
>Large prison: 210 prisoners / 70 workers = 3
What did he mean by this?

>>1755821
>t. conveyor main';

'Maybe he's unknowingly using a mod small prison from back when there wasn't a vanilla small prison.';

'>>1756148
Or maybe I can't count, ever consider that?';