'>>7130066
I don't understand half of the words in this post';

'>>7130066
When it comes to this type of stuff I always refer to the tenets of adiabatic glibormisim:
1. Don't bother with techo-loomisim
2. Study vilputic mechanics to maximize the hyperreal stability of your artwork
3. sacrifice the blood of a virgin
5. copy bridgman twice';

'>>7130551
The old masters from 16th century Italy, Vienna and Jerusalem used to prefer the sacrifice of male kids preferably under the age of three.If the kid happened to be a tranny or born on a new moon then the artist would be very successful.
Copying Michaelangelo twice over was also done if /beg/let was poor a neet and couldn't go through the sacrificial ritual.';

'>>7130066
Howdy n geewizz, I'm jerst sum cuntry bumpkin' who came over from a lil' cuntry thread and hear you city slickers with your big city slicker words. Gosh, and me oh my, you boys suuure is a different kind.';

'>>7130551
I'm not trying to superficially attract attention with noisy schizo posts of empty meanings... I'm just trying to be precise in my ideas, and sometimes certain non-canonical concepts can only be expressed in an extravagant way.

If anyone is interested, here are some definitions of the local terms used to clarify expected ambiguities:

Hard & soft creative perspectives: Level of axiomatic rigor in the verbal processes used in creative activity. Or put more technically: predominant cerebral hemisphere in the creative act (Will, instinct). Some examples: 'reading' appeals to A and 'pain' to B; the 'incomprehensible childish scribble' to A and the 'hyperrealistic drawing' to B; 'novelty' and 'canonicity'; 'local' and 'macro'.

Pseudo'asemic: 'almost meaningless'. I use it to imply terminology not conditioned on the reader, and perhaps not even 100% on myself... A hypothetical 'parallel context' is assumed to allow semantic gaps to be filled in through strong heuristics.

Macrostyle: Strongly persuasive and original creative patterns that are usually developed by a large number of people and time in a natural context (not directed by a creative organization). Macrostyles differ from simple 'styles' by having 'symmetry', this consists of harmony between simple forms (symbolism) and complex forms (naturalism) which allows 'scalability'. Macrostyles are interesting for their ability to radiate great 'soft power'. Currently, Tezukism (animanga) is the most developed macrostyle.

Scalability: objective progressive improvement.

I'm just looking to create my silly art efficiently, and axiomatic models (hard perspective) allow this. The soft perspective requires a lot of trial and error, luck and time which I don't have.';

'>r/iamverysmart';

'>>7130639
You have to go back.';

'Too much thinking, not enough drawing. Let drawing inform you, just draw(with intent) and you will have your answers.';

'>>7130066
I don't understand';

'Did you try reversing the deflector polarity?';

'>>7130628
Sometimes I use fancy ways to make my art because I have big ideas that don’t fit into regular ways of doing things!

Here are some special words I use:
Hard & Soft Creative Perspectives: Think of this like playing with toys. Sometimes, I follow the rules of the game exactly (that's 'hard'). Other times, I like to make up my own rules as I go (that's 'soft').

Pseudo'asemic: This is a fancy word I made up. It's like when I draw something that doesn’t have to mean anything specific. It’s just cool doodles!

Macrostyle: This is a special kind of art style that lots of people help make better over a long time. It’s like when everyone in class contributes a little bit to a big, beautiful class project.

Scalability: This means making something better and better, step by step.

I love making art my way, but I also use some rules to help me make it better without wasting time. This way, I can have more fun making more art!';

'>>7130628
Art is about punching people in the stomach, heart, and face, not satisfying abstract aesthetic principles.';

'>>7130066
>pedophile uses big made up words
go back to studying anatomy';

'Have you tried just drawing?';

'>>7130710
thank you for the translation.';

'>>7130628
>>7130066
You have to be 18+ to post on 4chan.

>I'm just looking to create my silly art efficiently
More drawing, less pseudo-intellectual rambling would be a good start.';

'>>7130066
>any tips for increasing entropy?
what about increasing enthalpy?
fucking pseud retard i should smash your head in';

'>>7130066
you'll want to first maximize the scope of your peripheral understanding by manifesting the synaptic bond (AKA the mind muscle connection, commonly used when talking about exercise) within your eyes and hand so you can more effectively translate the basic compounds/subject onto your preferred medium. You may need to subjegate yourself to absorbing the physiogamy of these root subjects. When you firmly believe you have a solid grasp on the countenance of these references you may then begin to explore the possibilities of splicing the compounds together. Natural entropy then may materialize with no added outside tampering

from there you need to stick a finger in your ass and taste the goopy shit particles that are caked along the outer ring of your anus. this method will allow you to better understand the soft and hard perspective aspects you may be struggling with.';

'>>7130066
Is this just an OC redraw thread in diguise? If so cool beans';

'>>7130920
Feet too small';

'>>7130066
what are you talking about this shit looks like friday night funkin';

'>>7130066
YIKES!';

'>>7130922
okay';

'>>7131001
UUUOOOOOHHH!!!';

'>>7130692
I agree with that, an axiomatic system can be beautifully self-consistent but if it does not achieve applicability on the 'natural plane' it is a waste of effort. Can you imagine a universe whose god forgot to allow it to be observed in a simple way? Healthy artistic development appeals simultaneously to the 'environment' and the 'soul'. The study of the environment allows efficient communication with other people by appealing to consensus, and the soul offers enriching novelty.

Too much novelty is incomprehensible, and too much canonicity is redundant. Balance is the key. As a popular note, Akira Toriyama is someone who has achieved a good balance.

>>7130824
My intention is not to use esoteric words to deceive: I consider the concept of 'visual entropy' to be quite simple, which is why I use it. But if you think it is very foreign to the usual terminology of the artistic area, you can replace it with 'complexity'.';

'you want to combine artstyles to make your own. congrats OP';

'>>7131319
I'm not looking to develop just a 'style', but rather a 'macrostyle'. Each nation should have its own macrostyle gradually enriched over the decades - a source of pride - but currently only Japan has one of non-trivial development. This is because the West is "mono'hemispheric" in its creative processes, it has no harmony between simplicity and complexity. This prevents scalability.

Renaissance art [complexity] denies the benefits of cartoons [simplicity], and vice versa. A is strongly persuasive but has no flexibility; B is the opposite, it has strong freedom but no persuasiveness.

Something like 'Evangelion' can only exist in a macrostyle context: the simple part allows strong novelties to be accepted and the complex part allows these novelties to be conditioned efficiently.';

'>>7132092
can you put the thesaurus down and post normally?';

'>>7130628
Ok I kinda get what you were trying to ask now but have you tried communicating your thoughts normally and unlike an autistic retard? Throwing around your local terms "you" personally use isn't gonna help you, in fact discarding them and learning how to communicate in modern standard English will probably help you in some way with your drawing compositions.

Also in trying to create a "macrostyle" based on what I've understood of it, is a waste of time. from your definition it requires appealing to a large set of people, thus making it bland and soulless as it tries to accommodate our each and every individualistic preference, smoothing itself out into an uninteresting smooth blob of shit.
Who would want to contribute to developing a style they are not interested in? "Macrostyles" are born out of a combination of bold creativity and a bit of luck. Leyendecker didn't develop his style for this purpose, yet I still find myself endlessly inspired by his works (as do a lot of other people).
In other words just get good and hope for the best.';

'>>7132092
what about things like rubber hose, Hanna Barbara and looney tunes art styles that where basically exactly what you are talking about?

They have extremely approachable styles and where approachable for decades - every animation studio effectively used these
the idea that "each nation should have it's macrostyle" is fundamentally retarded - styles change alongside the people living in them

even "anime" is a broadstroke term - look at things like ampanman and evangelion and tell me they are the same style you absolute donkey';

'>>7130066
autistic drawings';

'>>7130920
Cute and silly. Literally only reason why I decided to check this thread.
>>7130066
Post it on /i/. Might get more doodles of her';

'>>7132585
>what about things like rubber hose, Hanna Barbara

Exactly, those are beautiful macrostyle seeds, but due to the lack of general direction - direction endorsed by the keiretsu in Japan - they have remained half-developed without achieving their maximum potential. His balance and 'vibration' between simple and complex forms was not trivial, but neither was it exceptional. It's as if Tezukism had stopped reproducing in the 70s considering its peak to be Cutey Honey or Speed Racer.

I consider Termite'terrace'ism as the Western macrostyle that achieved the greatest development before being forgotten. Recent individual initiatives have tried to revive it (John K, VivziePop), but due to lack of balance they are empty efforts. A macrostyle only has scalability if it is balanced.

>even "anime" is a broadstroke term

Anime' is a misleading term, that's why I prefer to use 'tezukism' to refer to visual patterns based on the idiosyncrasies of Osamu Tezuka (which is also a 'fork' of rubber'hose'ism) and 'japanarts' (japanimation, japancomics ...) to refer generally to all creative output of Japanese origin regardless of its patterns. With these terms we can say that Evangelion and Anpanman are japanimation but not necessarily both are strong tezukism.

Personally, I am only interested in tezukism because it is the macrostyle with the greatest influence on the other trivial macrostyles of Japan.';

'>>7132920
>I prefer to use 'tezukism' to refer to visual patterns based on the idiosyncrasies of Osamu Tezuka
you is a dumb faggit

Tezuka's artystyle was just as varied as any other - and others don't even even stick to it
check out this one pic here - his characters are so different, some would assume 3 different people drew them';

'>>7132643
Danke. Draw her too make this esoteric thread at least worth something';

'>>7133027
The main patterns of Tezukism are present in these characters: rubberhose mixed with naturalism (realistic anatomy), although in different proportions. For this reason it can be said that they are part of the same macrostyle. Furthermore, a macrostyle is not only distinctive visual patterns, it is also internal rules that anticipate a certain kind of creative output.

The world is varied, you cannot expect everyone to faithfully comply with the same physical traits. That only happens in unbalanced styles like Garfield or the Fairly OddParents who 'vibrate' in their own autistic symbolic universe, ignoring reality.

One of the things I criticize about modern Tezukism is that it has forgotten that flexibility of primitive Tezukism.';

'>>7133027
>some would assume 3 different people drew them
some retards would. Those are all stock tezuka designs. Literally not!blackjack, not!astroboy, and not!disney-animal
If you wanted to post something by Tezuka that at least looled kimda different, you should have posted something from MW';

'>>7132194
Using strange words makes me feel cool and virile, like when in the lyrics of an anime opening they put random words in English... But if you want, here I leave my question in simple and direct language:

"Hello, I'm looking to create a equivalent of anime without being -strongly- derived from it. How do you think I can increase the complexity of this drawing without making it look forced? Maybe through shadows or gradients?".

>Also in trying to create a "macrostyle" based on what I've understood...

We can never agree. 'Nationalist' and 'globalist' worldviews are antagonistic. I believe - like the Japanese - that it is better to cover a small set of patterns and develop them to their maximum potential instead of covering everything and having minimal development.

To be honest this is a very simple synthesis of my creative philosophy, but I don't want to seem like a big schizo using more strange terms that no one understands...';

'>>7130066
Holy buzzwords, sounds like you're overthinking it mate';

'>>7132092
I like your attitude.';

'>>7133102
Oh, right. I might be a wrong artist for this though';

'>>7136227
Actually brilliant and full of soul
Well done';

'>>7135722
>"Hello, I'm looking to create a equivalent of anime without being -strongly- derived from it. How do you think I can increase the complexity of this drawing without making it look forced? Maybe through shadows or gradients?".
holy crap why didn't you just say that?
this board is made up of artists, not linguists! we don't think, we just draw.';

'>>7136241
Thanks';

'>>7136227

:P';

'>>7132920
> I consider Termite'terrace'ism as the Western macrostyle that achieved the greatest development before being forgotten.
Interesting. In that case, I think adding shadows with cel shading would work well to add some visual interest. That's how those old animators did it, since they used flat planes of colors on any animated characters and objects. That's the origin of the term cel shading, after all. I do hope some more distinct styles come out of Western animation, it is a little sad how we are currently just aping anime, and I do think anime (or tezukism as you call it) has become something of an incestuous style, with artists just copying other anime artists instead of stylizing reality. I think that's why there's such a problem with same-face. Anyway interesting thread, if a bit autistic.';

'>>7138054
Your shapes just aren't appealing to me sorry';

'>>7130551
>Sacrifice the Blood of a virgin
Wow calm down there Mr. Defloration';

'>>7132920
>"Hello, I'm looking to create a equivalent of anime without being -strongly- derived from it. How do you think I can increase the complexity of this drawing without making it look forced? Maybe through shadows or gradients?".
Well you should first be able to draw.';

'>>7136243
Thank you anon for translating the objective, here's an attempt';

'>>7138697
best advice';

'>>7138697
Can you share a high resolution version of that image? I can't read all your notes regarding my style and I find it very fun to read them!

PS: this image was drawn for me by a kind anon on /i/';

'>>7138740
https://files.catbox.moe/kcfqvo.png';

'>>7130066';

'>>7130066
you are not good enough at capturing form with line to handle this goal, good on you for trying though.';

'>>7138772
Can you share images that you think capture the forms well? I want to know specifically what you mean.

>>7138715
I like how you avoid 'overloading' the drawing by keeping the color palette simple.

>>7138756
I remember that drawing, it's very cute.';

'>>7138289
Being autistic at times is not necessarily a negative thing, as long as you return to social consensus later. I'm glad to know that someone finds some affinity with my ideas. My intention is not to promote the concept of 'macrostyle' just out of superficial nationalist sentiment, but rather because I believe that the quality of creative output will grow exponentially if we begin to find a balance between reasoning/will and instinct/imitation. I observe that the majority of contemporary artists are satisfied with simply imitating nature (or the circumstantial whims of other men) instead of understanding the psychological principles that are the root of aesthetics. Due to this lack of rigor it is impossible to create a strong creative axiomatic core which to develop in the long term.

I believe that a creative ecosystem where various macrostyles in equal conditions 'battle' each other would create extremely enriching art in the same way that conventional wars promote technological development.

>In that case, I think adding shadows with cel shading would work well

The biggest problem that prevents me from applying shadows to my drawings is that I have not developed a pseudo theoretical framework that anticipates the psychological behavior of the propagation of values (rendering), because of this it is difficult for me to make them 'flow' well with the other shapes. Any advice regarding this would be greatly appreciated.';

'>>7139162
You don't create, you don't know what you want to create, and even if you did you wouldn't know how to create it.

If someone showed you exactly what you are looking for you couldn't do anything with it. You're barren.';

'>>7139079
I do not want to. As you seem to struggle with people engaging your ideas given your choice of vocabulary, you may understand that i struggle with people engaging my ideas through text an images, spoken word is my preference. Though to give my best effort, Tezuka was a Disney obsessive, and the artists he drew from (if you'll pardon the pun) drew from an entirely different branch of illustration than what painters studied. It's why Kley pivoted at the end of his career as well. And to namedrop just a few more relevant artists, Glen Keane is contemporary and still alive, and specifically the Ink drawings of Frazetta may be helpful.

All that being said, this sort of topic is much better discussed aloud, as like with music, there is a non-optional temporal element to the work that real line drawing demands, as the field developed its stylistic elements for practical reason. (pic related, line art pics good and fast, the 'cheap' would be related to labor time, not turnaround time.)


Discord: 224153243339456513

I do love a chat about this topic and I always find your posts interesting, just diffuclt for me personally to engage in the 4chan format in any useful way';

'>>7139977
Quick addendum, the chart if translated to art terms would be

Good: Related to objective accuracy, defined within your systems limitations (value, color, resolution, texture, etc)

Fast: This one is just literal turnaround speed, slower is sometimes better.

Cheap: Labour hours, assuming you have access to the tools you need (A necessary presupposition for art), a 'cheap' piece may only need a single day to be as good as it can be, expensive will involve marble to cut, frames to render, or dry time and the like. A 'cheaper' option in this sense can get more 'Good' (as defined above), results relative to its labor cost.';

'>>7130639
Get out';

'>>7138054
Is that a fanart of my fanart?
Interesting, happened to me twice already';

'>>7139162
I swear to God you don't even want or need help you just wanted to talk to people. You've written 20x more than you've drawn this thread. Waste of everyones fucking time. Remember it goes in all fields.';

'>>7139977
I had limited the scope of this light-hearted thread to a superficial macrostyle debate, but since your comment uses complex concepts I think I will have to break these arbitrary limits and go more to the root of the problem. I hope it doesn't seem too strange.

The ideas you evoke with your words shake my 'arabesque' perspective in an interesting and healthy way. Dusts of uncertain nature rise and baffle me and motivate me at the same time. I will try to elucidate this dust by first defining the context.

My creative approach - which could hypothetically be called 'theoretical creativity' (TC) in antithesis to 'practical creativity' (PC) - as its name indicates is the study of artistic-aesthetic phenomena through formal axiomatic systems. TC in its purest form is so indifferent to the real world and its capricious social dynamics that it does not consider complex cultural concepts such as: industry, tools, economy, clothing? (LOL) relevant, and even 'time' is only considered as an abstract and non-literal approximation. -Would these categories be more worthy of study for a hypothetical 'applied creativity'?- In theoretical creativity the potential art (creative output) is not an end in itself, rather an objectively measurable stimulus with which to appropriately guide the development of the discipline. We look for 'the how' by observing 'the noun' and in this way create a universal creative algorithm.

>developed its stylistic elements for practical reason

Because TC lives in an eternal present, as long as these precedents that you point out have achieved a worthy example, it is not necessary for it to be recurring. 1 + 1 = 2 is eternal, it does not vary due to arthritis, the reputation of the artist or the lack of keys with the number one. Applied Creativity takes care of those things since it is a bridge between TC and PC- is more pragmatic-.';

'>>7140492
It's an interesting exercise. How about forcing it to the point of absurdity? This is what I call 'creative reproduction'. Just try to consider my best 'genes', eh? 'Anime' is like this but with more time and members.

>>7140963
It's true, my intention is the debate. Why do you think it is something negative?';

'>>7141250
Well I hope that works out for you, I suspect it won't but am interested in watching.';

'>>7141411
Anyone who shows the slightest sympathy towards me has my respect. That said, what I am trying to describe here is not a simple whim of mine, but rather it is a sincere - and perhaps a little autistic - expression of a visceral Western need.

Other threads like this one
>>7140525
are due to the same need, although without too much rigor which prevents developing something concrete.';

'>>7135722
you write like your in your teens, or someone stuck in high school
i would know because i used to write exactly like that literal decades ago
consider finding a mentor that will help you understand your obsession with magniloquence and how it socially alienates the people around you
brevity is truly the soul of wit
also
>I believe - like the Japanese
they have politics too, and you're generalizing the opinions of millions of individuals
the world you perceive is small and warped
>To be honest this is a very simple synthesis of my creative philosophy, but I don't want to seem like a big schizo using more strange terms that no one understands...
>simple and direct language
work on your narcissism
making assumptions about people's vocabulary solely to feel intellectually superior, without even knowing their capacities and while creating terms of which you control the definition, can and will get you laughed out of decent relationships that could be the ones you need to succeed in life, and succeeding at art as a career, of all things, is more about social navigation than it is about technical mastery

in short: your talk is gay, seek help before thinking you have special ideas, and pick up the pen again when you've been properly humbled';

'>>7141690
Ad Hominem: I'm pointing something out. Can you stop criticizing my finger?

Actually the truly 'immature' are those like you who believe that everyone must obey their arbitrary and biased social patterns. In fact, obeying only the environment instead of oneself is the main brake on self-development. Although looking only at your own navel is also something negative.

> you're generalizing the opinions of millions of individuals

Those million individuals behave like a swarm, that's why I generalize them. Why do you think generalization is a negative thing? After all, the generalization of complex dynamics is the basis of all hard science. The homogeneity in Japanese behavior is what has allowed them to create a great creative pattern [macrostyle].

I don't use strange words for ornamental purposes, I just try to be precise with my ideas.

But don't misunderstand these texts, I'm not angry. I just want to clarify things.';

'>>7144030
"If I had more time I would write a shorter letter'

This quote, often attributed to Mark Twain, is a humorous commentary on the paradox of writing. It suggests that the more time one has to write, the more likely they are to write a longer and more verbose letter. This quote can be seen as a tongue-in-cheek observation on the human tendency to elaborate and expand on ideas, rather than keeping things concise and to the point.';

'>>7144030
https://youtu.be/7XZlxsJoZkU?si=BrcHhPHI24wotV_-&t=61

here's a char design for ya';

'>>7144843
Simple words can only be used to refer to known concepts, verbiage is inevitable when you try to describe something that does not exist.

>>7144857
Nice drawing.';

'>>7130066
>I'm creating a style
>"primitive Tezukism"
>more made up words that seems out of a 90's hipster art magazine
>can't fucking draw
Who am I even quoting holy shit
How the fucking hell this board reached this point of total and absolute chaos';

'>>7145341
It is normal that you are confused. After all, Theoretical Creativity (TC) is totally opposite to Practical Creativity (PC), which is the traditional approach to art. TC seeks internal self-consistency and appeals to form and public only for self-regulatory purposes, PC considers social applicability as an end in itself.

In theory if you draw a pixel (in technical terms: low entropy visual output) and you can justify it; congratulations: you have created valuable art!';

'>>7145417
can you rank the art in this thread in order of how close they are to the look you're trying to create?';

'>I make up my own art terms XD
>Too much novelty is incomprehensible, and too much canonicity is redundant.
If you want to communicate effectively, perhaps you should try less novelty and attempt to use terms familiar within the macrostyle of the culture with which you are attempting to convey your ideas.
>I'm not trying to superficially attract attention with noisy schizo posts of empty meanings... I'm just trying to be precise in my ideas, and sometimes certain non-canonical concepts can only be expressed in an extravagant way.
Nope. You failed if your intent was to effectively communicate your ideas. But that clearly was not your genuine intent.';

'>>7145734
The rules of the atomized West are inefficient against the randomly improved rules of the unified East (specifically Japan). Why should I be guided by defeated arististic models? But the West is still in denial, it still believes that elitist renaissance art - which 95% of the population does not understand - is the pinnacle of artistic development and meanwhile East/Japan with its balanced art - which oscillates between accessible simplicity and persuasive complexity - increases its silent hegemony in the West.

But don't get me wrong, I don't hate the East per se, rather I hate the West for becoming a passive whore that allows itself to be impregnated by foreign ideas.

I am a proud sovereigntist and I am looking for a home to belong to. I am not interested in belonging to gray globalism without identity. The Japanese think similarly and for that they have my respect.';

'>>7147048
Well enjoy your yous I guess, I just hope you realize you're depicting yourself as the most absolutely fucking childish motherfucker I've ever seen on this shithole
Not funny, not annoying, just another instance of single use retardedness to throw in the pile
Hope you're having fun bro';

'>>7147055
Efficient communication ends when mutual respect is broken. Although I still respect you for taking the trouble to talk to me.

Maybe I don't have much sympathy for the current macro ideals of the Western scene (hedonistic individualism) but I respect their great technique. If this great talent was balanced with strong shared ideals, the world could be chang__';