'>>61461938
>lets make the mass produced part of firearm use twice as complicated, twice as prone to failure, and 1000% more expensive

I think its silly and regular guns are fine.';

'>>61461968
The only niche use I can think of would be making an extremely light and light-recoiling gun for a drone to carry, where every gram counts.';

'>>61461938
my guess is that the fuel is the pain point.

Also what's the use of a handgun that can't be used close quarters? Might as well just make it a carbine.';

'>>61461979
It was designed for use in space. Bad-ass but impractical.';

'>>61461968
>lets make the mass produced part of firearm use twice as complicated, twice as prone to failure, and 1000% more expensive
Worked for Sig';

'>>61461938
>it worked surprisingly reliably for the time
it was fucking garbage and the attempt to relativize is broken because its competition was firearms which have worked better than the gyrojet since the fucking arquebus

could you make it work with modern methods? maybe, but the end result would still be subject to the inherent of physical limitations of the device (it needs a good distance before it's reliable effective even if it hits) and the expense would be crazy';

'>>61461938
oh god iom gonna cum';

'>>61461938
>The gyrojet was built in the 60s with pretty low machining standards
How much more accurate do you think lathes are today? Hell most high accuracy lathes in industry are older than that because they cost a lot and last forever when taken care of.

Ignoring that retarded part of the OP I have always though it would be cool to make a 12ga gyrojet clone with powder to get it moving and light the rocket motor.
I wonder how fast you could get it when it's starting supersonic and the rocket is just stacking velocity.';

'>>61461985
I'm pretty sure you could make a normal bullet work in space, iirc the main issue would be the gun welding itself shut and that should be avoidable if you build the gun around it.';

'>>61461938
>Extremely lightweight gun
What's the point of making your gun weigh half as much if the ammo weighs ten times more? Unless you're only bringing one round its a net increase in weight.';

'>>61462025
No, the main problem would be launching you backwards since you have no ground friction to keep you in place. This problem is easily solved by arming everyone with Carl Gustavs instead.';

'>>61462070
>Gyrojet single shot anti tank rifle
oh wait that's just a Carl Gustav';

'>>61461938
An inherent problem is that the round takes time to accelerate, thus the gun has a minimum effective distance.';

'>>61462083
Well I assume if you are firing a normal gun in space you are either anchored to a station or have a suit able to counteract the gun's recoil impulse.';

'>>61462083
>>61462085
>20 seconds apart
Based Chucky G posters';

'>>61462085
>implying recoiless rifles and rocket projectiles are the same thing
Excuse my autisim but it would be more like a
Panzerschreck';

'>>61462092
Well, what if you're not? That's what the gyrojet is for.';

'>>61462102
>Fin stabilized vs spin stabilized RPGs
I'm sure some autist can inform us of the pros and cons.
>>61462104
If you need a gun in space and don't have a suit prepared to use it something has gone very wrong.';

'>>61462102
Rocketry autist here, how are they different?
To me it's just a short burn time that is over before it leaves the launcher, a longer burn that continues after leaving the launcher or a 2 stage with a delay like the RPG where the short burn throws it to a safe distance for the second stage to ignite away from the shooter.';

'>>61462104
the gyrojet is WORSE in space. if you're in a space station you are by definition inside of its ineffective (no distance to accelerate) range. if you're outside of a space station you need attitude control or anchoring REGARDLESS of what you're doing.';

'>>61461938
>massive advancements in propellent tech
which are? Rocket propellants in the 60s were pretty fucking good. we haven't changed solid fuels all that much since then. you have perchlorate based ones used in the few remaining commercial SRB space launch systems and in military rocket motors and nitro-based rocket propellants used in extremely high performance systems like SPRINT.';

'>>61462128
>>61462121
Or you could be outside and equipped with a suit that's perfectly serviceable for moving you around but doesn't carry enough reaction mass to deal with you constantly launching yourself in various directions. But yes, it's a silly scenario. There's a reason the gyrojet was lost to history.';

'Pretty much every fictional Gyrojet has a kicker charge to get it up to speed then it starts the rocket, would that be practical for a real gyrojet or would you be better off just having that propellant as one big charge and just fire a normal bullet? It seems to me like the only reason to bother with a gyroget that functions like that is to fire a really heavy bullet with a human-manageable amount of recoil and presumably very little or no bullet drop until the propellant is expended.
>This here is my problem solver';

'>>61462162
>Or you could be outside and equipped with a suit that's perfectly serviceable for moving you around but doesn't carry enough reaction mass to deal with you constantly launching yourself in various directions.
this is only possible if you are anchored to something.
if you lack
a) remass
and
b) anchoring
then you are in free fall waiting to die. and your lack of control over your attitude means that the idea that a firearm would kick you around is entirely academic, as your position is already at the mercy of God';

'>>61462167
>It seems to me like the only reason to bother with a gyroget that functions like that is to fire a really heavy bullet with a human-manageable amount of recoil
you narrow in on the real problem: people can only handle so much recoil in a fighting arm. the problem is that you still pay for the recoil of the mass of the propellant you are launching in the round as well. I think soft-launch will always be too much to matter for shoulder fired repeaters
>presumably very little or no bullet drop until the propellant is expended.
rockets still have ballistic drop, unless you put a guidance system in it.';

'>>61461938
Gyrojet isn't used because the recoil doesn't matter in the end that much to justify the price.
Most soldiers die from artillery. Soldiers need to be close to get reliable hits, they will be hiding in trenches and buildings, at that distance the recoil doesn't matter.';

'>>61462185 (me)
PS: any attitude control system by definition swamps the effect of a firearm. a firearm in free space won't send you flying like a top, it will start an agonizingly slow spin about your axis. anything that couldn't counteract that also could not be considered feasible for the task';

'>>61461968
But enough about .277 fury';

'>>61462009
>12ga gyrojet clone with powder to get it moving and light the rocket motor
>2-stage bullets
Hilarious. I need this in my life.';

'>>61462167
>to get it up to speed
I know bolters in WH40k use that with the initial charge's job being just to get it out the barrel before the rocket starts up, i assume accuracy would be dog shit since basic bolt rounds lack any sort of homing';

'>>61462185
>if you lack
>a) remass
You won't lack reaction mass if you aren't constantly using it to counter recoil, that's the whole point.';

'>>61462235
Dumb question i assume the autists here would know
How good is the .277 fury against the sort of ancient IFV's and what not Russia is pulling out of storage? Sure it's a larger bullet than the old standard but there's no way the basic US infantry gun could pen that could it? Are XM7 and XM250 meme replacements or actually decent?';

'>>61462272
It will pen anything that M80A1 could pen.';

'>>61462266
see my point >>61462229 here
if your RCS can't compensate for a few mags it's fucking garbage.
consider that if guns were so much stronger, we'd be making RCS out of smokeless. obviously that's retarded, a gun doesn't kick you about with anything near the efficiency of any actual dedicated system. hence the remass necessary is far less than the amount of gunpowder used to accelerate those projectiles, so unless you're carrying your weight in ammo cans you intend to dump, it's a small portion of the demand on the system';

'>>61461938
I'm with ya, and I'm guessing "bigger is better" so WTF a 12ga.

I hear shotguns are lower pressure but should be fine then.

I'd like to see a payload capable 12ga based rocket with RPG style pop-out fins for "sport" and other uses like shooting a line like they do in US Navy with what appears to be an M-14 with rifle grenade based unit.';

'>>61462367
I think a flare gun makes the most sense. All the bore you could want, much more compact than most shotguns, and you could plausibly call it a signalling device with all the smoke and flame.';

'>>61461938
>the machining was still a bit too manual to get the nozzles always right
I had read that they were using manual indexing heads to drill the nozzles. If true, that was incredibly inefficient even by the standards of the day. Today a swiss-style aka "sliding headstock" lathe with live tooling could crank out those nozzles fast, accurate, and cheap compared to back then.

>>61462009
Nearly anything is more accurate than drilling the holes by hand on a bridgeport with a super spacer. But more importantly a modern lathe can make them fast enough to be economical.';

'>>61462122
recoilless rifles are just rifles that dump half the propellant backwards to cancel out the recoil. It's not a rocket';

'>>61462726
that's literally what a rocket is, anon.';

'>>61462768
No it isn't. The propellant is not in the projectile. It's a gun';

'>>61462780
i never said it's not a gun. "gun" is not a meaningful physical distinction. "rocket" is. you got a reaction, you got exhaust gasses, and you got a payload, yep, that's a rocket';

'>>61462811
The difference is that in a gun the projectile is accelerated all at once. A rocket is accelerated over time. If you don't understand that it's over';

'>>61462817
there is no part that the rate of acceleration plays in determining whether something is a rocket.';

'>>61461938
>Extremely lightweight gun
Wrong.
>No recoil
Wrong. Did you even watch the video?
>can launch a 180grains 12mm round at 1250ft/sec (380m/sec)
Wrong.
>Dosen't overheat
Wrong.
>Simplest mechanism ever.
Wrong.
>Super flat trajectory making correction for elevation unnecessary.
Wrong and retarded.
>Smoothbore barrel as the spin is caused by the nozzles making the gun easy to to make and able to fire many rounds.
Irrelevant.
>Lighter ammo to carry.
Wrong.
>Weight and stopping power of a caliber 45 Recoil of a 22 speed of a fast 9mm
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.

This is fucking amazing OP. I've never seen someone so up their own ass about something they just learned about 15 seconds ago. I suppose you think the concept was dropped in it's entirety faster than a Hillary Clinton murder charge because of Big Ammo or some stupid shit, not because it was a horrible idea that was so ineffectual and worthless its own inventor disowned it?';

'>>61462025
weight isn't ideal, you had to spend a large volume of rocket fuel per pound of cargo.';

'>>61462121
do you believe you're smarter than cold-war era rocket scientists? genuinely curious.';

'>>61463027
What part of that post would imply such a thought in the first place?';

'>>61462167
>>61462247

>Rounds are unreliable because of the delicate mechanics in their ass
>lets set off an explosion behind them, that'll help

Did you know that even as late as the mid 2000s there was still fierce disagreement among the various 40k authors about how bolter rounds functioned?';

'What do you mean "low machining standards" are you sure you know what you're talking about?';

'>>61461938
>the 60s with pretty low machining standards
immediately retire your life signs
>>61462411
>manual indexing heads to drill
>superspacer
because .0004 accuracy is just plain SLOPPY amirite
just because your dad is a shit machinist doesn't mean there are no competent ones out there
>>61462001
>it was fucking garbage and the attempt
the real answer
of course you could build a better one, they could have built a better one back then, the thing is a toy. nevertheless, its an answer in search of a question';

'>>61463535
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest, Leman Russ and Baneblades canonically have right around or less than 200mm of RHA equivalent armor. The Abrams has up to 1000mm of RHA equivalent armor.
If you go by officiall data from data books and the like then in a land war the Imperium gets fucked by modern day US even as they try and fail to overcome us with numbers. Shown capabilities are far beyond the official ones though';

'>>61464709
>Shown capabilities are far beyond the official ones though
No let's not fall into that trap, Shown capabilities are as often shockingly puny as they are super incredible, but only the "biggest number" gets quoted around online forums, giving everyone an inflated view of the setting.';

'The only reason to use rocket ammo is for a very long range sniper rifle
I was autistic enough to actually do all the maths to make one and to make it work and maintain zero drops the caliber would have to be 28mm for 2000m';

'A gun that shoots a projectile using a rocket motor which uses up its fuel inside of the barrel is called a recoilless rifle is it not? If the rocket motor sustains beyond the barrel we call that a rocket or a missile. Are these things somehow different?';

'>>61465386
No it's called a bazooka or LAW.';

'>>61465386
The rocket on a LAW burns out completely inside the tube.
The difference is how much the tube contributes to the process. Rockets don't need it, so the tube can be paper thin; you could take the rocket out and fire it alone if you wanted. Recoilless guns depend on the tibe being strong enough to contain pressure, which makes them heavier but contributes to efficiency via higher pressure, thus producing a generally higher velocity (like a carl gustaf or RGW90).

BTW, you can guess what this means for TBI. Rockets are generally harmless unless they're heavy artillery sized or more; while recoilless guns hurt more and rapidly scale up the damage.';

'>>61462090

Not really now it would be very easy to make it fast enough that it would still be deadly even right out of the barrel.

Personally I would consider a modern version to require to reach maximum acceleration within 3m of exiting the barrel for handgun versions or 10m for rifles. But reaching kill velocity at barrel exit is definitely possible, even with the old gyrojet putting your hand in front of the barrel will more likely result in an hole, serious injury than a stopped bullet.';

'>>61462167

Very easy to make a first charge, just make the primer extra spicy with the power similar to a caliber 22.';

'>>61462367

What about 20 gauge size gyrojet ammo but they work like Apfsds rounds just with 3 flechettes on each one of them?';

'>>61468614';

'>>61462832
Rockets carry their propulsion system onboard. A bullet from a recoiless rifle or any other rifle is propelled solely by the propulsion system left behind in the weapon that fires it.';

'>>61462009
This idea has crossed my mind as well. It's basically a small 40k Bolter.
>>61461938
You don't lathe the rounds now, you 3d print them with carbon fiber outside and solid rocket core, electric trigger.';

'>>61469182

To all the boomers here saying that 60s manufacturing was better than today so there is no much improvement to be done as far as the case goes:

1) LMFAO

2) The very people that made the gyrojet themselves said they could have made it better but back in the day it was not economically viable to make the nozzles as they should have been made due to technical limitations of their machines.

3) Takes one single look at the gyrojet nozzles to say "these have been machined like a cheap firework not like a missile"

4) they used an easily available propellent rather then designing one for the purpose.

So plenty of opportunities for improvement.';

'>>61462009
I too had the same neo-gyrojet idea and I like it so much I wrote it into a sci fi story I’m writing';

'>>61462367
>I'd like to see a payload capable 12ga based rocket with RPG style pop-out fins
Not enough room for any kind of meaningful payload. Those Frag-12 grenades that were hyped to hell back in the Future Weapons era were pitiful and about as effective as a generic slug. Made for cool slo-mo videos though.';

'>>61472091
A 12 gauge with frag warheads and a laser proximity fuse would be good fun for home defense and urban combat. Miniature version of the XM25.';

'Sounds like an opportunity for MR TORGUE';

'>>61472091
>Those Frag-12 grenades that were hyped to hell back in the Future Weapons era were pitiful and about as effective as a generic slug. Made for cool slo-mo videos though.
Everything I've read said they could blow straight through quarter inch steel plates,';

'>>61474959
556 can go through 1/4" steel plate. That's not special';

'>>61461938
It's mostly for space combat. Gyrojets have practically no recoil but a lot of stopping power, excellent when you don't have reliable footing but unless you need an ultralight anti-vehicle weapon it's just not that useful.';

'>>61461938
It's too cool for this gay world so unlikely';

'>>61461938
Sounds like it could make a good SMG of the future
Careless ammo, 2000 rpm';

'do the rounds leave fowling behind as they travel ?';