'>why does the military train for rucking by rucking';

'because they can just deny your VA claims
>isn't government healthcare great?';

'>>61586073
You can build strength and endurance to necessary levels without obliterating your cartilage. Running with a 100lbs+ ruck crunching down on your spinal discs is hands down the most retarded way to train for rucking even if you don’t care about your soldiers health 5 years down the line.';

'>>61586076
My buddy wrecked his back after only 5 years as an 11B but at least now he gets $500/month from the VA for letting the government permanently damage his body by age 26';

'>>61586144
Then what do you propose they do instead?
Keep in mind, you cannot have individual fitness plans, and whatever you choose has to be able to be done by a dozens of dudes at one time.';

'>>61586051
Bad leadership, good leadership uses PT to maintain a bare minimum with the expectations soldiers will work out on their own and don’t mandate weekly fucking 6 miles
>t. Guy who fracgufe his leg because of ruck autism from above';

'>>61586204
Training people to run and doing ruck marches after teaching basic fitness care. It won't fix all but an.active stretching and shoe fitting program would fix 60% (according to a number pulled from my ass) of claims made by vets later. Also would be cheaper to give proper fit shoes than to correct bad joints';

'>>61586292
>teaching basic fitness care
This, grunts especially are mostly retarded 18-22 year old kids that don’t know even basic anatomy and think their bodies are indestructible. Most of the 11B guys I knew refused to use the hip belts on their rucks because “hip belts are for pussies” (despite being ergonomically designed to displace weight on to your hips and off of your spinal cord). It’s the equivalent of lifting something heavy with your back because it looks manlier than slightly squatting and lifting properly with your legs.';

'i think the french PT approach is better than ours. they focus on cardio, not so much ultra heavy lift strength.';

'Soldiers are expendable. who cares what happens to them in the future';

'>>61586543
send another wave';

'>>61586051
>Why does the military still insist on doing the most physically destructive and inefficient PT routines possible?
Anon, the number of people who do enough running during a ruck to even enter the realm of potential damage is a tiny, tiny fraction. Long term damage is from INJURIES not just running or just jogging while under load.';

'>>61586534
Snap city is calling retard.';

'>>61586602
>Long term damage is from INJURIES not just running or just jogging while under load.
Running under load wears down irreplaceable cartilage in your knees and compresses your spinal discs. It can also cause stress fractures in your foot’s sesamoid bones which can’t actually heal because they’re so small (according to my podiatrist at least). Running under load OCCASIONALLY probably won’t cause long term damage for a healthy young man, but running under load every week for 4 years certainly will.';

'>>61586725
Yeah, but then go back and re-read what I posted. 99% of grunts aren't running under load for significant distances. Most rucks are a fast walk with intermittent running.';

'>>61586073
Biking. It's a similar motion to running while a lot less damaging to the joints. Use purposely inefficient bikes over soft ground to maximize muscle strain while also busting the Recruits over the state of their bikes.

Rucking with extra loads is actually pointless, resistance training is better for muscle growth while running without a pack is just as good for cardio.';

'>>61586744
Intermittent running done 4 days a week is still WAY too much for long term joint health.';

'>>61586744
Depends on the unit. My buddy in the 101st had to do a 6 mile ruck run (emphasis on run) every week while he was at Ft Campbell. Now he can’t stand up straight for too long without getting lower back pain.';

'>>61586821
Ironically my source, and the basis of my thesis, is also from the 101st - a grunt and a jew (lmao, dumbest jew) - and he's absolutely fine.';

'>>61586837
I think some company commanders just really like punishing their grunts with destructive PT because they think it’ll make them look like good leaders to their superiors
>CPT Dumbfuck is making his guys run 10 miles on Monday? I better make my guys run 12';

'Because they don't care what happens to the cannon fodder. Henry Kissinger said, "Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." and that's exactly how the US government has always treated its troops.';

'>>61586534
>never lifted';

'>>61586792
>Biking. It's a similar motion to running while a lot less damaging to the joints.
Huh. Biking is mostly using your quads. When running the load on your muscles is spread out much more. Rucking also involves your back and shoulders. Try to put a heavy backpack on a professional cyclist and he'll buckle after 5 km.';

'>>61586190
>but at least now he gets $500/month f
ask him if it was a good trade.';

'>>61586534
More correctly you stabilize and in a compound motion will shift weight.';

'>>61586916
that quote is incorrect, fyi.';

'>>61586534
I’d love to see you crank out a couple deadlifts my man';

'>>61587164
>my man';

'>>61587203
I can’t tell if you’re ESL or just autistic';

'>>61586190
I get $3700 a month';

'>>61586051
The fatasses and never-trains are coping pretty fucking hard in this thread. Good job OP';

'>>61587203
>doesn’t understand a common english language colloquialism
is that you in the webm?';

'>>61586483
I always tell my guys to use the hip belt. Aversion to the hip belt is a surprisingly common form of dumbassery in the infantry.
t. 11B';

'>>61586204
>You cannot have individual fitness plans
Unimaginative thinking';

'>>61586051
Most annoying shit I ever had to do was push a Humvee up a half-mile hill with.2 other guys in full MOPP gear - in 90 degree weather too. Second most annoying shit was TAB (tactical advance to battle) with 3 other guys & a stretcher with 400lbs of ammo on it trough rolling hills over a distance of 5km's - we were also in full gear. Shit was so gay.';

'>>61586509

Modern soldiers are retarded. The americans are, the french (and european in general) less so, but increasingly are.
When you look at US soldiers, they're all bulky, lifting weight, taking proteins powder and supplements...
The europeans were a lot leaner. In France we traditionally call that "chat maigre" (skinny/lean cat). Unfortunately, our soldiers are inceasingly adopting modern fitness/gym bro mentality, and especially when they were in contact with US forces in afghanistan they started emulating US soldiers. It was actually observed by our Army health service how they started using supplements... (guess it's also around the time when gym culture started to spread in the whole society). The army is still institutionally promoting lean bodies and endurance/cardio, but the individual soldiers... it's like everywhere gym, liting weight, bulky with tight clothes purely for aestethic reason and not practical soldiering reasons.

A soldier should be lean. Not have big muscles that needs tons of kcal and supplements to maintin and limits your movements. Not lifting heavy weight, fucking up his body. Same with rucking with XX kg on your back.

They should work on cardio, resistance, core strenght, body mobility...
And you can train some of them without harm (for cardio for example, swimming is good, train he whole body, train cardio, and it's pretty easy on your body and joints).

And agree with fitting shoes, it's one of the most important thing (good fit, for the foot and for the terrain you operate in, and changed often enough for new one that are not used). Can also add a fitting backpack to avoid fucking up you're back.

Actually regarding shoes/boots, was reading about minimalist/barefoot shoes, and the alleged benefits, and was asking myself if it would be a good idea to try that out for soldiers... Allegedly it helps with adopting a natural posture, reinforcing your feet...';

'>>61586204
Literally just run. Train your groups for distance on one week, speed on next, cycling distance/speed each week. If you fall behind:
>get filtered
I know. The military not accepting the women and shemales that fall behind, crazy thought.';

'>>61587534
Btw I like sucking cock';

'>>61586204
>Keep in mind, you cannot have individual fitness plans, and whatever you choose has to be able to be done by a dozens of dudes at one time.
Like literally opposite to what modern athletes do and all bodybuilding science
Also fun thing is same soldiers doing bulking up would be doing individual lifting plans, i guess when it really matters (muh biceps size) people are ready to abando boomer habits.';

'gym is for fucking faggots go to work soft hands';

'>>61586204
>>61587534
Literally just stretch you fucking retards. It will solve mist of the issues in regards to fitness related injuries in the military. Also do more cardio like running because running/jogging can strengthen the joints by small fractures and such along with the bones around the area. Stop trying to lift more weights, it does nothing aside from making you look like a fat muscle head. Focus on cardio and only do strength training 2 times a week. Taking supplements and protein is fine as it strengthens the muscles and provides the body with more nutrients. Which is sufficient in many fitness routines. Don't take fucking steroids either';

'>>61587316
I never could use it because of packs over the plate carriers.';

'>>61587316
>belt
>carrier
>pack belt
ima keep it 100 chief i would just roll my belt in my pack to get enough space to use the pack belt.';

'>>61588664
>strengthen the joints by small fractures
peak broscience';

'>>61588704
>bro science
Its not bro science when its true. Bones get strengthen after healing from small fractures. When the fractures are big thats where it becomes more of a liability. As long as you put some pressure and frsctures to the bones within the body's ability to heal, it should strengthen and allow you to put more pressure than before.';

'>>61587316
I really don't understand it. The hip belt and sternum strap are what distribute the weight evenly on the body so it doesn't fuck up your shoulders. We were always told we could only do one, which I guess in a dumb way could make sense for ambush reasons so you only have to undo one buckle to drop ruck and return fire. But for PT it's retarded.

Rucking is fine as long as they don't make you run with it and murder your knees, that's another common mistake.';

'>>61586051
has any line unit actually rucked to a position and fought the enemy in the last 40 years?
makes sense for recon and small infil units, but everyone else rucking with a full camping kit? why?';

'>>61587534
>they're all bulky, lifting weight, taking proteins powder and supplements
these are fobbits, the pros know these body types don't pass, it's sorta a meme in itself';

'Rucking saved my life, my left knee exploded on a ruck, I was immediately booted from service, told it wasn’t service related, and spent an incredibly depressing two years barely mobile and completely penniless, kept afloat only by my parents taking on my rent. After that though, I wasn’t in the Army anymore, which was a huge improvement. Screw the Army, I have no idea how I put up with that BS.';

'>>61588732

That anon is right.

"The response of bone to stress by appropriate remodeling is
known as Wolff’s Law and has been verified both clinically and
anatomically. Significant trabecular microfracture in various stages
of healing was observed in cancellous bone from both human
tibias and tibias of rabbits whose bone was caused to remodel by
experimental loading. This healing increases the trabecular mass
by the addition of large quantities of callus which stiffen the bone.
This mechanism may be responsible for the remodeling of trabecular bone in response to stress. "

https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.3109/13813457309074441';

'>>61588862
You still need strength as a soldier. You need to lift heavy shit. You need muscle mass as well. A good physique for a soldier is a well balanced one. If you focus on cardio entirely, you'll struggle with carrying and maneuvering stretchers, ammo, heavy weapons. A good balanced physique like a linebacker or rugby player would be best. Honestly I think the US military should adopt training programs based on what college football and rugby teams use, where it is a mix of group and individual PT, that focuses on strength, mobility AND endurance.';

'>>61588941
>Honestly I think the US military should adopt training programs based on what college football and rugby teams use
i know sf has been doing this for years now, they hired advertisementball training staff to run those training programs';

'>>61588850
>has any line unit actually rucked to a position and fought the enemy in the last 40 years?

Are you serious lol';

'>>61589249
post an example, seriously';

'>>61589264
Nigger';

'>>61588524
Shoveling gravel is not a strength routine';

'>>61588850
What really fucking sucks is rucking with ski's on.

T: I really miss my knees.';

'>>61586578
>t. Ulysses S Grant';

'>>61589389
i could create ski sled that would solve this, but no one pays me';

'>>61587534
You can be lean/efficient and strong af. The issue is bodybuilding bloat routines have poisoned the realm of real athletic knowledge. The purpose of using weights is to reach your max sooner, yet retards use weights to not reach their max because some steroid using body dysmorphic retard told them to bloat their muscles full of blood instead of actually make them stronger. Some people do max, but they do multiple sets before that so they're fatigued going into their max set and can't lift to their full potential. In order to make progress and add weight every week, you need to keep your fatigue bar low going into your max set to get maximum performance. When you push that absolute maximum, you condition your body to adapt so by next week you'll be pushing more weight.

I'm not talking out of my ass, this is called minimal effective dose training or the One Set Routine. It was advocated heavily by big name fitness gurus like Mentzer and Yates. They did one set per exercise, using weights properly just to stimulate strength growth response, then went home and recovered which is the bulk of making athletic gains. With weights, literally do one max set, I like the 3-5 rep range. I usually only do 5 reps, if I can only get 3 I decrease weight and push out a couple more. This has been an insanely successful method for me with 17 years of lifting under my belt. If you're new I would suggest 2x5, get a LIGHT warmup in like half your max weight. Do not raise rhat fatigue bar. Everything else you do to condition yourself is cardio and functional training. Training for a sport? Do that sport, wrestling, fighting, rucking, rock climbing, whatever it is. Your weightlifting routine is barely taxing and you can afford to train way more. This is how you actually achieve great strength and great health with a great physique that looks like an athlete that girls drool over, not a bloated turtle.';

'>>61587472
Back in my day you had a sergeant that wanted to use a TOW bar as a stretcher and you had to push a MTV uphill.';

'>>61589838
Also it's better to do a full body warmup before this instead of doing warmups on weights. For example I usually do box jumping and heavy bag boxing. So when you go into a squat or bench you're warmed up. You don't warm up with weights. Can you? Yes. Is it efficient? No, you always want to be actually training for something rather than just pushing weights. The only purpose of that is to tear your muscles to stimulate a strength growth response. Everything else is a skill to be built. I want to jump high so I fucking jump, I want to hit hard and with good techniques so I hit. Weight training is just a base to your athletic performance, focus on sports training routines rather than deoending on weights alone. If you're worried about physique, this gives you THE best physique. Trust me when I say bodybuilding is for the male gaze, women do not think those bloated freaks look good. Athletes attract the female gaze, it's like they can tell what actual strength is which is why they go for athletes and ottermode cardio bois.';

'>>61589876
I started writing this as satire but it really was like that. I wish I was more imaginative I could have got another job.';

'>>61589879
fuck warm ups, give me one drunk ass hung over mechanic badass and I'll get you're fucking humvee unstuck. I can do it with a sober one too but I like to like to have beers or peers with people.';

'>>61589838
The french dude’s observations on American soldiers are because
1. Pogues bodybuild because they don’t do stupid hooah infantry pt and can get away with it
2. The US army’s newer PT test, although flawed, is also a response to injuries in GWOT where some 130lb stringbean with a 9 minute 2 mile run and a 300 APFT irreparably destroyed himself rucking 120lb up mountains in afghanistan. As a result, running takes a huge backseat to general strength and if you can deadlift 340lb nobody cares about your 18 minute run time';

'>>61589264
The Falklands War, where British forces walked over the whole island to fight the Argies?

Gulf War 1 where Bravo Two Zero walked hundreds of kilometres through frozen Iraq with 100kg of kit and Chris Ryan literally ran 300 kilometres out of Iraq into Syria with only the kit he had on his person?

Any current and past war in the jungle like the peacekeeping operations we in Sierra Leone in 2000.

Any current and past war in the mountains/snow like Afghanistan in 2001 when the SAS walked most of the way through Tora Bora dressed as locals.

Any war which isn’t in a developed country with paved roads involves rucking onto objectives and fighting you muppet';

'>>61586051
To separate the fucking weaklings from the men.';

'>>61586073
Rucking has very little relevance in the modern era';

'>>61589438
We had sleds. Where do you think we slept? They don't issue -40 rated sleeping bags. So we drag around120 pound sleds, per squad normally. Extra sleds were used for ammo. We skiied with 70 - 90 pounds on us, because plate carriers were banned. Iotvs get fucking heavy and annoying when you are forced to ruck with em on.';

'>>61586051
>doing PT to make you /fit/
gay
>doing PT to make you suffer so that you become hard
still gay, but based

Being a good soldier is not about how much shit you can carry on your back for how far. It's about having the balls to actually go.';

'>>61586792
Biking with a heavy load on sand is just pointless';

'>>61590262
no no, im talking turboautist sled, but very simple in design and scope
again no one pays me so i wont tell you much';

'>>61587534
I wonder if it's possible for europeans to go a day smugly without whining about Americans and blaming them for all their problems';

'Could electrical muscle stimulation and steroid cycles reduce the amount of time needed for PT? I suspect a lot of training time and energy is wasted on PT that could be spent on educating soldiers. The battlefield is just getting more complex, and the skills soldiers need are becoming more difficult to master after all.';

'>>61590818
did that make sense in your esl head bastard benchod';

'>>61586051
Because war is physically destructive and inefficent';

'>>61590918
Euros are dumb';

'>>61586051
The Romans made their guys ruck 20 miles a day in peacetime so it's probably going off that doctrine.';

'>all this neverserved posting
You retards should actual look up how the US military does their training instead of making up stuff. Even the Navy made a big effort to teach sailors how to stretch before and after exercising, doing group workouts based upon personal physical condition, and wearing proper fitness attire. You all are acting like the worst workouts like rucking and utes and boots are the only workout they do';

'>>61590968
suck a dick pog';

'>>61590078
>The Falklands War
40+ years ago
>Gulf War 1
30+ years ago
>Any current and past war in the jungle like the peacekeeping operations we in Sierra Leone in 2000.
Are you retarded?
>Any current and past war in the mountains/snow like Afghanistan in 2001 when the SAS walked most of the way through Tora Bora dressed as locals.
Oh you are retarded, my bad';

'>>61591014
I gave you 40 years of examples just like you asked. I could add in the training the British Army does in Kenya all year round which involves long range patrolling in the bush and desert. I could describe SAS selection which begins with weeks of rucking and ends in the jungle of Brunei rucking everywhere.

I could also describe the French Army’s operations in the jungles of French Guiana or French Polynesia or their islands in Mayotte? Try and drive a regiment of IFVs and Tanks through a rainforest mate.';

'>>61591014
>Ask for examples in the last 40 years
>Get them
>NOOOO THESE DON'T COUNT BECAUSE REASONS';

'>>61591014
Explain why conflicts in impassable terrain like jungles or mountains aren’t an argument in favour of soldiers being capable of moving long distances on foot with rucks.';

'>>61586051

its to keep military age males from putting up a resistance by blowing out their knees and backs';

'>>61587203
You shouldn't post your image or home videos on 4chan. Displaying Personally Identifiable Information on the Internet in general should be avoided.';

'>>61587534
To be entirely fair, the average soldier living on 3 MREs a day is taking in 3,750 kcal and the hot kitchens in the US Infantry will feed you significantly more than that if you think you need it. You can get away with the Gym Bros mentality if you have the calories to feed it, and having soldiers strong enough and top-heavy enough to throttle an insurgent to death in hand to hand simply with overwhelming mass before you even leverage in training isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Yeah, it makes sense to be efficient and lean as a general rule of soldiering, but there's a saying in the US Infantry - 'Stop trying to bring the war in under budget'. There isn't a budget for the US, its literally limitless food, ammunition and fire support barring a complete destruction of the military apparatus somehow, so you might as well make use of it.

Building muscle soaks up time in a way that helps retain sanity and feels productive and constructive, as opposed to shooting up the officers' mess or hazing new recruits when you're bored, staging cockfights, whatever. You're better off pumping iron.';

'>>61586190
Sounds like he needs to up that percentage';

'>>61587203
…have you seriously never heard someone say “my man” before?';

'>>61588895
Only you need periods of rest for healing. Guess what?';