'is this some tiktok shit about taylor swift in melbourne. maybe that park and green i see right now on maps surrounding the stadium also was a car park at some point?';

'Always fascinating to see in what parallel worlds people live. Lately an anon told me that most Americans have no umbrellas, because they walk so little that it is simply not worth it.';

'>>1980754
That's my college housemate from the part of the US that tried to break away to protect their fundamental right to enslave people. She thought people bought umbrellas (and hats, gloves, and scarves) to "put on airs" because her whole life was spent in climate-controlled boxes and using your feet for anything was strictly for the blacks. These are the same people coming to /n/ after watching some youtube urbanism channel and spouting off garbage takes fed to them by the real estate industry about how people in the city don't know what's in their own interests';

'>>1980748
Oh yeah I've just realised now that in every American TV show and movie stadiums are always in the middle of a giant car park. That's actually weird. In England nobody drives to the football, the trains are always packed.';

'>>1980753
>maybe that park and green i see right now on maps surrounding the stadium also was a car park at some point?
It was a railyard until they converted to a park in the late 80s.';

'>>1980785
*stadia';

'I don't remember if it was Sim City or Cities Skylines but the developers for that game was studying the US to model their game after and realized the amount of parking lots in America far outnumbered anything else, so they removed parking from the game or it would be a parking manager game, not city building';

'>>1980790
**stadii';

'>>1980785
How could people get drunk if they had to drive? Unitedstatesians are retarded af';

'This is just like stadium threads in /sp/. Nothing but foreigners whinging about the US';

'>>1980796
Thankfully Americans invented drunk driving. Stay seething yurocucks';

'Isnt the MCG bult from an era before cats?

Not a lot of parking by wrigley field either.

As usual the best is both. A modern stadium serviced by bus and rail with a secured parking garage.';

'>>1980810
are there even stadiums without garages? they should just be located underground. the surrounding land is better served by mixed use development';

'>>1980836
>are there even stadiums without garages?
Yes, most of them. It's expensive to build a parking deck for a facility that's only used a few days out of the year, so usually parking decks are anchored by another facility that needs parking capacity (such as a convention center or another arena)

>they should just be located underground
Extremely expensive, not many places where the cost can be justified';

'>>1980843
>Extremely expensive, not many places where the cost can be justified
the cost can be justified in any urban stadium in north america. maybe not for the shitty greenfield suburban ones, but if their urban (which many are) they should be surrounded by commercial and residentail development. surface parking lots dont generate nearly as much money';

'>>1980748
Most of those are probably bots';

'>>1980847
>the cost can be justified in any urban stadium in north america
Not really, that's why it's uncommon. Truly subterranean parking structures are typically small because they cost so much. If you want large parking capacity the only real option is going to be an above ground garage.';

'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X42qWBNTLo';

'the horror... the horror...';

'>>1980850
>Not really, that's why it's uncommon
it's uncommon because american downtowns were parking craters for the second half of the 20th century. gentrification will consume the downtown surface parking lot within a couple of decades. theyre financially insolvent compared to actual development, especially for municipal finances';

'>>1980754
>>1980758
Keep in mind HOW FUCKING HUGE america is, and how many different climates it has.

Also, consider Canadians, generally don't have umbrellas, because they go with big hats and waterproof jackets instead. even in Vancouver which is a temerate rain forrest.

t. No umbrella, because less than 20 rain days a year.';

'>>1980785
America has tailgate parties before their games, where they drink, and barbecue food out of the back of their trucks. If you ever visit america, I highly suggest you at least try some of the regional barbecue food.

Much of america has strict drinking in public laws, and this is an exception. And the americans take full advantage.';

'>>1980836
>>1980847
Much of America is VERY low density, so it makes more sense not to have parking garages or very limited ones. Even in quite a few cities. The lots are frequently shared with other venues or used for big outdoor events so while it's a waste, it's not a total one..';

'>>1980890
The majority of the US population doesn't live in your area of the desert.';

'>>1980890
>the continent is big
>so cities and their suburbs cant have public transit';

'>>1980893
>Much of america has strict drinking in public laws
Land of the free.';

'>>1980874
>it's uncommon because american downtowns were parking craters for the second half of the 20th century.
That's not an explanation at all. When parking is being considered the cost per space is examined. Surface lots obviously being the cheapest, then decks, and finally subsurface parking. Excavation is expensive and then you have to build a parking deck in it.

>theyre financially insolvent
What is?';

'>>1980754
No umbrellas in Iceland, just jackets of various lengths and thickness.';

'>>1980911
>>theyre financially insolvent
>What is?
surface parking lots, in prime real estate in american downtowns. the parking lots generate less money than mixed used developments. they are one of the most ineffecient uses of spaces possible in an urban context. the majority of the time there arent even vehicles parked there. selling the parking lot land to developers, and then creating a structured or underground parking garage is a better financial choice for the franchise. in my (north american) city the hockey stadium is downtown, sitting atop a subway station and surrounded by high rise development.';

'>>1980836
My home stadium, Arrowhead Stadium at the Harry Truman Sports Complex has 45000 surface spots serving the Royals and Chiefs.

Long term the plans are to bulldoze Royals stadium, put a parking garage over the old stadium then have a beer garden and bbq pit where they serve pregame drinks.';

'>>1980890
A simple portable one isn't expensive at all, and can be used for sun-shading in the summer.
And even if it only rained for 20 days, still not a bad thing to have for those twenty days.
Plenty of items get purchased that only come out on a seasonal basis.';

'>>1980748
Informed, engaged citizens capable of maturely deliberating about transportation policy in a democratic society the lot of them.';

'>>1980920
I can see why one might personally dislike surface lots in cities but they exist as placeholders until a better use for the land comes along. While it seems easy to think you can just buy one of them and build what you like there, the truth is that comes with financial risks and regulatory obstacles. At least the parking lot generates some income for the property owner, and thus a revenue stream for the city itself.';

'>>1980890
>Also, consider Canadians, generally don't have umbrellas, because they go with big hats and waterproof jackets instead. even in Vancouver which is a temerate rain forrest.
this has nothing to do with "canadians" its a pacific northwest thing. they dont use umbrellas and if you do they accuse you of being a transplant';

'>>1980944
"regulatory obstacles" are more or less the only impediment to getting things built in urban america. if you think condos built on the sportsball frachise downtown wouldn't sell like hotcakes you have brain damage, and condo buildings with commercial on the first floor generates infinitely more revenue and economic activity than a fucking sea of pavement to park cages';

'>>1980947
>"regulatory obstacles" are more or less the only impediment to getting things built in urban america.
There are regulatory hurdles to build things in most places in the world, anon. It's not uniquely American.
>if you think condos built on the sportsball frachise downtown wouldn't sell like hotcakes you have brain damage
You aren't profiting from them and you won't be buying one, I don't understand why your side cheers on residential towers that look over a building that you either can't see inside of, or isn't occupied most of the year. But you still do it for free.
>and condo buildings with commercial on the first floor generates infinitely more revenue and economic activity than a fucking sea of pavement
If they're occupied.
>cages
Oh you're one of those';

'>>1980951
do you even know what board you're on you pathetic retard? im not "pro developer" its just retarded government policy and zoning that retains surface parking lots downtown. any sensible land use policy or tax policy would legislate those stupid wastes of space out of existence. imagine the concentration of infrastructure, human and economic capital concentrated in a city centre and then placing a surface parking lot there so some sleazy landlord can make money on parking fees';

'>>1980956
>im not "pro developer"
My bad. There are people on here who favor any dense development in cities, regardless of potential negative consequences, local laws and ordinances, and even opposition from people who live there. They walk in lock-step with these gigantic corporations, yet quizzically, they aren't getting paid. They cheerlead for free. I was mistaken, you're not like that.';

'>>1980965
as a poorfag im intimately aware of how problematic YIMBYs are';

'>>1980836
>they should just be located underground
lolno. NRG Stadium in Houston and the Superdome in New Orleans would be submarine only parking. Plus like the other anon said, the stadium in Houston is right next to a convention center, the old Astrodome, and (formerly) a theme park, so the parking isn't just wasted space most of the year.';

'>>1980893
>Packers
I might be a FIB but I'll say, they know how to throw tailgate party at Green Bay. I agree, go to at least one tailgate party in your life, especially if you can make it to a Packers one.';

'>>1980897
in most cities these laws are selectively enforced. in at least a couple cities i've lived in the places where even having a beer on the sidewalk in front of your house was illegal were all clearly in minority neighborhoods, whereas laws were more lax in other parts of town.';

'>>1980935
well, you know, just try to remember that we're not every one of us retards please. for me.';

'>>1980897
>>1981018
>They don't know about pic rel';

'>>1981023
>just break the law silly
Nice system';

'>>1981028
>just break the law
Literally yes';

'>>1980991
>katrinaville and katrina fugee town
k';

'>>1980864
So fucking retarded, you still have to walk a lot from your parking spot to the entrance.';

'>>1981023';

'>>1981038
>My insane insistence that stadium parking be underground was just btfo
>Better deflect by insulting the cities
Pretty fucking rich coming from a cucknadian';

'>>1981018
I've heard public drinking laws are meant to be a catch-all for more strict public intoxication laws. It is easier for a cop to have reasonable grounds of public drinking than establishing the mental state of an individual as intoxicated.
If you aren't being a problem and just drinking in a park or your lawn, most cops don't care. They'll charge you with public drinking if you're being rowdy and a general annoyance. You get slapped with a public intoxication and thrown in jail if you are incoherent or committing a crime while drunk.';

'>>1981051
Try harder anon';

'>>1981064
i obviously mean real cities, not jogger infested shitholes built on swamps, sandbars and in hurricane country that lack quality mass transit infrastructure and were parking craters for the second half of the 20th century';

'>>1981522
>Y-your examples don't count because, uhh... buzzword buzzword they just don't, okay!
Go jump in front of a bus, commie scum.';

'>>1981522
What's your problem with joggers, anon?';

'>>1980748
This literally feels like "how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast" lol';

'>>1981579
Joggers drive cars, joggers litter, joggers consume ungodly amounts of commodity products, joggers are leeches of society, joggers do not care for their own nor others, joggers are genetically low IQ and it shows and so on and so forth.';

'>>1980790
>>1980794
***stfu';

'>>1980970
ignore that faggot he's an idiot who doesn't understand housing and why it's actually expensive and thinks it's gentrification only when it's partially the giant swathes of exclusively low density SFH that lead to these housing issues in the first place that are band aided by towers and 5 over 1s in select areas.';

'>>1982132
>t. unpaid cheerleader';

'>>1980754
Damn wtf looking into it this seems so weird. An American owning an umbrella is like an Australian owning an overcoat.';

'>>1980864

Damn. The parking takes up as much space as the entire downtown LA area lmfao. I mean I know it's LA and they have awful transit, but still. That's absurd.';

'>>1980890

China is big yet they have high speed trains all over the country. India is big yet they have trains all over the country. Russia is big yet they have trains all over the country. Continental Europe is big yet they have trains all over the country.

Americans are just addicted to driving everywhere because they're lazy.';

'>>1982293
China and Russia are big, and pretty much nobody except tourists take the extremely long distance routes, there's lowcost airlines these days.';

'>>1980890
you and the 25 other people living between the misssissippi river and california are irrelevant and your opinions are also irrelevant';

'>>1982313
I lived in boston and commuted on foot and bike. People just wore raincoats. I had an umbrella but it was not the norm.';

'>>1980864
That gondola isn't going to help this.';

'>>1980864
What the fuck';

'>People are getting mad about parking lots in a nation they don't live in';

'>>1982293
>Americans are just addicted to driving everywhere because they're rich.
Ftfy';

'>>1982378
>Americans are just addicted to driving everywhere because cars are subsidized by the Government
thanks for paying your taxes Goy';

'>>1982378
That would only work as an argument if meaningful alternatives existed. Otherwise no choice actually exists and one is left pretending that monopoly is actually preference.
Especially when "preference" seems to mean fewer, worse options.';

'>>1982379
>cars are subsidized
Am I about to get a wall of text about how much roads cost with an implication that train tracks are free?

>>1982391
>muh induced demand
Shut the fuck up, you europoors! Guess what? The rich people in your countries drive instead of taking the train. Because they can. Everyone who gets a choice between public and private transportation chooses private.';

'>>1980920
Go bruins';

'>>1980754
>Lately an anon told me that most Americans have no umbrellas
Not a Burger but I fucking HATE umbrellas. Around here there's a 80% chance that whenever it rains there's also wind and really early on I got fucking sick of retarded fucking FAGGOT umbrellas turning inside out at the first fucking slight wind gust and most even break this way. In the end you have to deal with this retarded shit your entire way through and STILL end up getting rained on since most of the time you were busy unfucking that dumb shit or especially if the wind makes the rain go sideways.

I either put on a rain jacket or nothing, depending on how long I'll have to be out in the rain.';

'>>1982402
>The rich people in your countries drive instead of taking the train.
And yet the wealthiest, most dynamic economic regions in countries (London, Paris, Tokyo, Moscow, Beijing, Shenzhen, Shanghai, NYC, Osaka, Seoul etc.) have the highest modal share for mass transit while transit is virtually absent in the emptying, economically-distressed rural areas that comprise most of their land.
And in Sub-Saharan Africa, rail transportation is virtually non-existent while automotive traffic is a major social issue.';

'>>1982601
These are also some of the most miserable places on the planet that aren't actually destitute, poverty stricken, and hopeless hellholes. Yeah, there's a lot of money, but it's not proving to be a healthy or satisfying way to live.';

'>>1982601
You are not helping your case';

'>>1982603
So that's that for the money cope.
>not proving to be a healthy or satisfying way to live.
And don't look at any actual indicators.
Two more weeks and the urbanization trend reverses.';

'>>1982402
Income is generally not associated with positive traits. What you state may very well be true. And it wouldn't be surprising that many wealthy people, most of whom, in modern societies, are wealthy by virtue of income and not for example inheritance, prove to be inconsiderate of others, their surroundings and environment.';

'>>1980754
some do walk, but still refuse to carry an umbrella because they're afraid it looks "gay"

many americans also see scarves as strictly fashion accessories

>>1982590
i got a very sturdy rainbow one that can take the wind but it doesn't telescope and it's the size of a cane';

'>>1980864
nuke it from orbit';

'>>1982670
The trends are meaningful on generational timescales. The trend towards population collapse is well enough indicative all on its own.';

'>>1982670
>don't look at any actual indicators
You sure don't, rabbi.';

'>>1982601
>Urbanites are wealthy
No, you disingenuous fuck, they're middle class at best. I meant the old money Hapsburg mfers. You think you're gonna see a Rothschild on a train? Maybe if he's doing poverty tourism. And don't cite me any bullshit about subsaharan Africa, they can't do jack unless a whitey or a chink does it for them or puppets them into doing it.';

'>>1982673
I never thought I'd see the day. A communist shilling for old money and saying the more recent go-getters who actually earned what they have are the problem.';

'>>1982673
>>1982793
reality gets weirder every day';

'>>1980754
Umbrellas are useless. They break on an average rainstorm where I live. Even then why would you have an umbrella when the superior raincoat exists.';

'>>1982791
lol they don't drive, they get driven
so getting a chauffeur is the best?
why don't you? do you fly on a private jet too?
maybe cost is a consideration for 99.999% of people huh
maybe some of the inconvenience of cars can be avoided with money huh';

'>>1980753
You are correct. There is a huge grass area near the stadium that gets converted to parking during large events.';

'>>1985250
that's just for staff and stakeholders';

'>>1982293
>based Chin....not like this!';

'>>1980897
>lmao Americans can't rape and murder people? so much for "freedom"';

''As Gregor Samsa awoke one morning from uneasy dreams he found himself transformed in his bed into a monstrous American'.

fair gives you the creeps!';

'>>1980847
>shitty greenfield suburban ones
kek what is wrong with this board?
Serious mental illnesses.
>the cost can be justified in any urban stadium in north america.
What you are more likely to find in low(ish)-density American cities is a large but insufficient parking lot on stadium property and then lots of smaller, independent garages and lots nearby but not directly adjacent to the stadium. These lots and garages often jack up fees on event day but are used every day for normal business as well.

This is true of high-density locations (eg Fenway Park) as well, although in that case the the adjacent lots include a garage but are tiny and exclusive. Normals are expected to pay event fees at nearby parking garages or take the T.';

'>>1985338
Drinking alcohol in public is illegal in most of the US, but it's completely legal in Cuba. Lmao, imagine having less rights than Cubans.';

'>>1980789
F';

'y'all jelly';

'>>1985733
nice one. now do infant mortality

>>1985779
texas needs to be cleansed in atomic fire';

'>>1985779
>Copeland Road';

'>>1980864
Amerimutts were a mistake';

'>>1985779
>>1980864
How did these retards become a superpower again? Like it baffled the mind that the creatures that could come up with this kind of monstrous urban design could achieve such a thing';

'I live in a small town where the opposite is true. If you take public transport people assume there's something wrong with you(or you're a drug addict/on our country's version of welfare). Most people have a car or have a family member who has a car. It is what it is.';

'>>1988462
Be the change you want to see in the world.';

'>>1988458
you don't have to be smart to happen to land in a country with the best farmland in the world and the most abundant natural resources.';

'>>1988458
The USA was a superpower before we got drunk on power and money and built a bunch of empty lots for cars to sleep in';

'>>1985779
what the FUCK.';

'>>1988458

Money was spent on the military instead of subsidizing useless trains.';

'>>1990732
College freshman tier response';

'>>1988458
Didn't have to deal with two world was devastating their entire country. Not to mention all the natural resources.';

'>>1985779
>sports stadiums
>big theme park
>industrial facilities
>mix of single family homes and apartments located within walking distance of stores and restaurants
>major east-west freeway
I see nothing wrong with this.';

'>>1980796
stay mad europoor';

'>>1990778
>sports stadiums
obviously good, but completely surrounded by parking and likely inaccessible by transit or even walking/biking
>big theme park
theme parks are great, you don't need to design your city like that to have them, considering tokyo has disney within the city limits
>mix of single family and apartments
likely due to laxer zoning in texas which is good but do you really wanna live in an apartment where you still have to own a car to do anything? you realize a city is more than just the fact that it contains things that are potentially useful right.';

'>>1980748
I deal with Americans and Canadians and most break out into blind panic and confusion when you mention walking to them.
Just a simple walk to a shop or basically any walk that goes beyond the immediate street you are in causes a weird and visible distress. Some get incredibly embarrassed and insist on driving you there and won't take no for an answer.
It really is like they've been propagandized because you can't even have a simple adult discussion about it. The concept is galvanized in their heads and you cannot have a simple discussion about it.';

'>>1980864
I like that the roundabouts are triangles trying reallllly hard not to be roundabouts';

'>>1982402
>The rich people in your countries drive instead of taking the train
huh?';

'>>1982793
Old money had not much choice to do with their money except ventures and philanthropy. Yuppies i've met are almost always ruthless opportunists and tend to think quite highly of themselves with some brainlet shaky moral framework around "something something generative wealth" that's so rhetorical it sounds like something straight out of a bitconnect seminar. I've met a few that are smart enough to own up to being terrible people but I notice most try to outrun it with frivolous spending and drugs.';

'>>1992411
It's in response to the quote of "A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation" by Gustavo Petro, which urbanists like to use as some sort of gotcha (without understanding the source). Petro was mayor of Bogotá at the time and now President (with an approval rating of 33%), but in no metric does Bogotá, HDI, GDP, etc. stack up to any given European or American city.';

'>>1992410
Its a one-way loop road.';

'My brother rides his motorbike to the football, it’s legal to park on the footpath here so he gets really close to the gates.';

'>>1980991
My coastal town literally built underground parking that extends to the coastline. Seems like a skill issue.';