'Indiana dunes national park/state park
I live in NWI with all this stuff right outside my back door for context.
It’s an overlapping park, the state has part of it, and the feds have part of it, and in some places both of them control it. It used to be free to local residents until covid, where it stayed open, except without the Illinois tourists it made no money. So they started charging locals.
Now that the fips are back it’s just as much of a shit show on that front as it ever was, every year it’s just miles of Illinois plates parked alongside highway 12 because it’s a 2 lane road and they think that means you can park there. Every year the park and police stations and towing companies get a bajillion negative reviews on all platforms because of “illegally towing my perfectly legal parked car”.
There’s garbage all over the place in the busy season, it’s just rough.
It’s wedged between two gated rich people communities, so if you stray too far anywhere you end up in karenville.
The conflicting governance of the state/national park means conflicting rules. The state runs a yearly permitted hunt of deer, the feds refuse to let guns into the park, so you have to enter the park and hope the state stops you and not the Feds on those yearly hunts.
If you ride a bike anywhere in there they try and kick you out, and direct you to the calumet trail, which is under a foot of water most of the year and isn’t suitable for bikes as such.
And then where the calumet trail goes, is also national park, so you can’t bring a bike to the place the trail goes to.

It’s like the one good thing about this area and it’s just miserable.';

'>>2712080
Lake Tahoe is about one step away from what you described. The only redeeming factor is that they're mostly concentrated to the lower elevation parts of the lake. The further up you go on the mountaineering routes, the less people you see.
The catch is that you can't park anywhere, due to the exact same problems you described.';

'>>2712098
national parks are generally shit if you want to actually explore or do fun stuff. If you accept their rules and stick to touring in your car/walking on the paved trails then you might enjoy yourself. No real outdoor fun allowed though';

'>>2712127
fr. I get in for free and the last time I went to visit Bryce I honestly had more fun fucking around in the national forest area surrounding it.';

'>>2712080
That's disheartening because I've always wanted to camp there. Are the Adirondacks better?';

'>>2712132
Yes actually, the Adirondacks are possibly my favorite area in the northeast. Even in peak tourist season you can easily go a whole day without seeing another human being. There's free parking everywhere. It's the kind of place where I have no qualms about going target shooting a short distance off trail. I might move there permanently some day. The rule in NY is just don't go south of Saratoga Springs.';

'>>2712127
Town forests are where it's at. Swamps, mosquitoes, beer, and brass.';

'>>2712127
>never left the containement zone
I dont understand tards like this. You bushwack anywhere in most national parks. the vast majority of visitors dont go more than a mile from their car.';

'>>2712080
Would you be happier if they were diesel trucks?';

'>>2712204
Yes because then I wouldn't be surrounded by fags';

'>>2712080
probably a forest preserve on cinco de mayo.';

'It's so small that it barely counts but Great Falls National Park in Virginia takes the cake for me. There's only like 2 or 3 hikes there that are all five miles or less. You get to share these hikes with legions of total retards who will let their dogs shit everywhere, hold massive quincineras (and trash the place), have loud blowout family arguments in Hindi (while trashing the place), or just leaving literal used diapers places. I can fill a trashbag within 15 minutes whenever I go to clean up a spot.

The climbing is pretty good but toprope only. It's classic East Coast "short, slippery, and sandbagged." You also need to field constant questions and panic from the aforementioned retards.';

'>>2712147
How 'tistic are their gun laws? I wanna go shoot my M1';

'>>2712080
There’s a horror novel called The Fisherman that’s based in the Catskills';

'>>2712080
Rickett's Glen is a total shitshow full of Jersey, NYC and Philly trash. The AT is right up there too. Much better alternatives for both where you won't run into losers everywhere.';

'>>2712235
Their gun laws suck as much as you can imagine but there's really no police up there and I doubt they care anyway. Upstate NY is basically like northern New England.';

'>>2712160
last time i checked bushwhacking was forbidden in national parks. backcountry stuff is still relegated to actual trails and actually using stuff like fallen wood is illegal';

'>>2712388
That's 100% bullshit except in small parks close to major cities.';

'>>2712393
ok i believe you';

'Americans really will blame every single thing on the planet for being bad before blaming the mandatory-car society they knowingly created';

'>>2712457
I'm OP and I'm completely redpilled on cars. I currently live in an automobile but this year I'm recruiting transitioning to a tent and bicycle trailer. I hope to see automobiles completely banned in my lifetime.';

'>>2712388
>last time i checked
>doubt
you should check again. ...at least in Yellowstone its perfectly legal to hike anywhere you want except where posted as closed. I take day hikes all the fuck all over. However, you can only camp in designated backcountry sites. Its likely similar in Yosemite, Olympic etc...';

'>>2712512
Just don't camp in open treeless areas and be careful with fires';

'>>2712503
inshallah the damned combustion carriage shall be run off this earth';

'>>2712663
Automobiles are literally a debt slavery scam. Build everything important 20 miles apart and then give out easy loans to an increasingly overpriced machine that can cover that distance in a reasonable time frame.';

'>>2712147
The Adirondacks have so much unspoiled wilderness it's unreal. Literally millions of acres of backcountry.';

'>>2712098
Brown County yokel here. Come down here, it's dead fuckin empty except for like 10 days in fall. Brown county, Morgan-monroe, yellowwood, lake Monroe. Versailles and Brookville aren't too far off either.';

'>>2712666
This is why Henry Ford did what he did. He wanted a family to be able to purchase an automobile outright so that a certain group of small hat folk wouldn't hold you in debt slavery.';

'>>2712666
>Jewish trips
>reee the automobile is bad
Lmao';

'>>2712080
catskills are too packed but you're choosing to go to a more crowded section/time of year of that area and then complaining that it's crowded. which is stupid.';

'>>2712851
Sounds like an east coast problem.';

'>>2712127
>paved trails
>crowds
Other than that (it’s a meme; go a little further) yeah, national parks aren’t for everyone. There are rules about where you can go and often where you can sleep, so you have to enjoy just being outdoors and walking, enjoying the scenery. Brain fried zoomers are shit out of luck.';

'>>2712666
You VILL NOT own ze car
You VILL NOT be able to escape your designated bughive
You VILL stay in your designated zonen
You VILL eat ze bugs
You VILL pay rent for your entire life
Es ist nur notwindig.';

'>>2712775
Friendly reminder that the dodge brothers were wicked kikes and Ford wanted everybody to afford a car and a tractor and to reinvest in local infrastructure to improve peoples lives. Supporting mopar is supporting usury.';

'>>2712211
>mmm diesel exhaust. this really brightens my /out/ experience';

'Pinnacles NP in California - Unimpressive (seriously, the condors and pinnacles rocks are simply not that cool at all), full of pajeet/chinese south bay weekend warriors who shit up the place, over crowded trails, uninteresting floral and fauna compared to any other NP, and a boring drive to get to. Camping there sucks, it's not quiet due to all the newb campers. Simply not worth it and no decent off trail hiking. Only worth it if you're a rock climber I guess for a day trip.';

'>>2712080
You deserve it for being a citidiot';

'>>2712132
Go to the Catskills. OP is gay literally posted a picture from the busiest part of the range, it's not like that outside of Kaaterskill Falls. As a general rule, the farther the hike and less comfortable the conditions, the less people will be there.

I did the Catskills 3500 over the course of a year and a half and absolutely loved it. Go in the winter or early spring and you'll find barely anyone, even on the more popular peaks. Also, the sunrises, sunsets, fall foliage, and spring bloom are phenomenal and you'll have most of the mountains to yourself. And it is a good place to fly fish and you can just camp offtrail anywhere so if you want to be alone it's really easy.';

'>>2715029
packed places are packed regardless of coasts, dummy';

'>>2712101
Definitely a shit show, but its redeeming qualities you mentioned are superb. Most of the problem is concentrated in emerald bay, zephyr cove, and sand harbor.

I don't think many places could even hold a candle to lake tahoe. No place has such access to the outdoor activities yet an incredible supply chain for everyday needs.';

'>>2717398
yes
80% of the US lives east of the Mississippi
so east coast problem.';

'>>2717868
This isn't remotely true but you east coast retards live in your own little world and I hope to god you stay there.';

'>>2719278
>Maroon Bells, Colorado
>Zion, Utah
You can’t drive inside either of those parks anymore (the dead ends roads that go into the centers of the parks towards the hiking trails, at least), you have to take the free bus service or be on a bicycle';

'>>2712080
Ffs you Yanks bitch about anything';

'>>2712147
>>2712678
just googled it and it looks unbelievably comfy, you Americans are really lucky when it comes to /out/ stuff, or at least those of you that live near places like this';

'>>2712127
I agree, most national parks are tourists traps, they do serve that nice function of normie containment though.';

'>>2722068
The Adirondacks are quite nice and not too crowded if you avoid the Lake Placid, Lake George and Old Forge areas. The wild forests are mostly empty. The bugs are going to suck the next few months though. The black flies are notoriously bad and then there's other flies, mosquitoes and no-see-ems. Ticks are present but not as much as in the Catskills and Hudson Valley.';

'Speaking of the Adirondacks, I want to start my journey to becoming a 46er by summitting Cascade and Porter. But I'm most likely going solo and hate out-and-backs unless I can incorporate a bigger loop into it. Since the hike is pretty short, and suggestions what peaks I can add to it to make it a 2+ day backpacking trip?';

'>>2722089
I'm seeing a 20ish mile loop that takes you over Cascade, Porter and Big Slide with campsites (including lean-to shelters) at the base of Big Slide.
Whether I would recommend doing this depends on your relevant experience and fitness. Since you've never done any of the 46, relevant experience would mean routes of similar distance and elevation change in Northern New England (and possibly the Catskills if I'm being generous).
The "Adirondack Mile" is a thing for a reason. The terrain is unforgivably steep, rocky, muddy and possibly buggy depending on the season.
Starting with just Cascade and Porter would give you a feel for the rugged terrain without being too much of a commitment right away. The fact that you're asking for route suggestions instead of doing your own route planning leads me to believe that you aren't quite ready for an ambitious itinerary yet. Get a few High Peak dayhikes under your belt and then we'll talk.';

'>>2722123
Got it, thanks for the heads up. I guess I got a bit ambitious and wanted to make the most out of it since the Adirondacks are a bit of a ways away from me. I'll start with some pretty rigorous multi-days in the Catskills before getting started on becoming a 46er in that case. Perhaps I'll focus on joining the 3500 club first, haha';

'>>2712080
Michaux state forest is pretty bad

>working forest, horrible tree regeneration following harvests, forest is now like 65% invasives, unwanted red maple, unwanted sweet birch, and acres upon acres of chestnut oak snags

>DC tourists and mentally ill urban dwellers coming to "get into nature" for the first time all year
>proceed to park on the side of the road 5 feet past the entrance sign and let their kids run around in a 20 sq ft section of "forest" next to the car before they unload all their trash and drive down the road to do the same thing
>host to a dozen EXTREME OFF ROAD OVERLAND CAMPING clubs and events (There is zero overlanding or remotely 4x4 required trail in the viscinity)
>proceed to do the equivalent of a subaru meet in a parking lot, but it's a wooded gravel parking lot, leave all their trash and leave


Good for mushroom hunters, that's about it. everything else is a fucking dumpster fire.
T. forester here';

'>>2722125
Understood about wanting to make the most of your time. If you're into watersports like kayaking, you could also do that when you're not hiking. I always like doing that at the end of my ADK trips when my legs are usually sore.
It's worth mentioning that my legs ONLY get sore after big hikes in the Adirondack High Peaks which speaks to how incredibly rugged the terrain is. I can hike big days in New England and out west and be fine the next morning. Not so much in the ADK which have the most punishing hiking trails in the entire country, bar none.';

'Everything within driving distance of Austin, TX is under siege.';

'>>2722135
I've been thinking of heading out that way for a bit. The problem is the main views seem hard to get to or illegal. There's a fire tower that's closed off but apparently you can get up if you crawl under a fence or something, and I did another view, god I do not remember the road, but its off a dirt road and you climb right up the ridge there and then pop there's a view.
Also Michaux is where the Appalachian Trail is routed through so you can't really complain thats' gonna bring people no matter what. I don't care about the trail much but seems like there's a lot of either shitty or impossible views.
Also there's some technically illegal hike up along a creek through waterfalls where you park at a legit trailhead but then go onto someone's property who knows you are doing it but doesn't care as long as you don't leave trash.

>There is zero overlanding or remotely 4x4 required trail in the viscinity)
in the winter that's not the case and there was actually a stretch of road I did there that had pretty big rocks in it and we turned back cuz it was in poor condition and you could access the same ridge further down where the road wasn't as shit';

'honestly probably anywhere in the smokey mountains during normal daytime hours.';

'>>2722142
UNDER LOCKDOWN?!';

'>>2719279
I think you meant to say *west coast.

I'll gladly stay on the west coast, have fun catching lyme disease hiking with 1000 obese fucks, never venturing further than a mile from a road, never seeing a view with more than 3k feet of elevation change.';

'Imagine getting mogged by some rando Bay Area backpacker doing real summits. I mean, Christ I’m cucked but at least I have some 11000ft peaks. I want to feel bad for easties, but at the same time it’s just so pathetic that they walk up a hill and shout “hooray!”';

'>>2722142
>under siege.
even the Alamo?';

'>>2722558
So you've never done any real hiking in New England or the Adirondacks. Otherwise you would know that 11k western peaks are usually easier than eastern peaks with half the elevation. Try the Presi Traverse, Pemi Loop, Great Range, Dix Range Devil's Path, or any route on Katahdin and let me know how much those western horse trails prepare you for the northeast's mountains.';

'>>2722560
I forgot about the Alamo.';

'>>2722144
>views
there's nothing to see, you've got city on both sides, the best views of nature in the park consist of acres of barren chestnut oak snags and ratchet-ass dry forest overlooking busy roads.

The real attraction is the LOW parts of the forest which are basically a riparian hemlock rainforest year round. tourist-proof since it's not a "scenic overlook" to get an instagram selfie at.

Theres tons of good 4x4 trails; they're all arbitrarily gated off year round. the best parts of the forest by far are the low wet sites. you can drive 2 hour in any direction from michaux for much more meaningful scenic views and much more isolation.

Nature preserves along the susquehanna in lancaster co are amazing, likewise with the natural areas in Rothrock state forest. random gamelands out toward altoona offer infinitely better views obostructed by highways or trashed by embarassing instragram selfie hikers';

'>>2722657
>Nature preserves along the susquehanna in lancaster co are amazing
they closed off the main one with the weird name omg I forget the name but its closed
I'm pretty sure I've seen all the major overlooks on the lower susquehanna by now

>Rothrock state forest.
there's supposedly some nice views perhaps of raystown lake from maybe the terrace mountain trail or nearby but I cannot figure out where to park and walk from existing info';

'>>2722135
Another PA anon here. Michaux is indeed bad and everyone should definitely go elsewhere. No reason at all to visit.';

'>>2722660
you're still missing my point if the main attraction is getting to some hill top next to a parking lot and getting a better view of the widespread desolation mankind has caused in this state.

won't repeat myself but i'm glad the actual unique natural features of these places aren't on anyone's mind, they're incredibly sensitive unique ecosystems that would suffer from increased public rec.
>>2722687
Kellys run is shut down for the above reason, you can take the long way down from clark still but anything approaching the creeks is off limits, any bridges or easy access near the creeks has been removed.';

'>>2722769
>kellys run is shut down
Are you sure? I'm seeing reviews from people who have been on it this week. Either way I'll be walking it soon; it looks pretty nice when the leaves start coming in and block the view of the river, kek';

'In Canada the Joffre Lakes, the Indians clothes off access and random times, the Instagram crowd is always there clogging up everything';

'>>2722125
3500 is a really good start especially since you have to do a bunch of offtrail navigation and it is open all season round to snowshoeing instead of where parts of the Dacks are actual mountaineering territory, way snowier, and way colder. Most of my hikes I had the mountains all to myself except on the most popular peaks like Slide and Panther. Sunsets are great, peak foliage is first weekend in October, and expect snow and ice to bog the trail till late March early April.

My personal recommended order for the 3500 is : (I didn't do it this way, but this increases distance and difficulty with most of the hikes)
1) Balsam Lake
2) Panther
3) Windham HP
4) Bearpen + Vly
5) Halcott
6) Kaaterskill HP
6) Thomas Cole + Black Dome + Blackhead
7) Hunter + Rusk
8) Balsam + Eagle + Big Indian + Fir
9) North Dome + Sherrill
10) Devil's Path
11) Catskills 9

Also this website is your friend: https://www.catskillmountaineer.com/index.html';

'>>2722934
Thanks for the advice brother, really appreciate it. I actually went ahead and mapped out all my planned routes in advance using Gaia/Avenza. I figured it would be good practice so I wouldn't have to ask for routing in the future, haha
Here's what I got currently planned. I actually used the list on catskillmountaineer to help me sort by difficulty. I used that in combination of trying to bundle as many peaks together as possible:

1. Balsam Lake Out and Back
2. Rusk-Hunter-Leavitt Loop
3. Vly-Bearpen Out and Back
4. Halcott Out and Back
5. Fir-Balsam Out and Back (Includes Big Indian and Eagle)
6. Windham Out and Back
7. North Dome Out and Back (Includes Sherill)
8. Kaaterskill Out and Back
9. Peekamoose-Friday Out and Back (Includes Table, Lone, Rocky, and Balsam Cap)
10. Blackhead Out and Back (Includes Thomas Cole and Blackdome)
11. Devil's Path
12. Slide-Cornell-Wittenberg-Panther Loop

>Catskills 9
It's funny, when I was looking at the map I really wanted to combine Slide-Cornell-Wittenberg-Panther with Peekamoose-Friday, but it just seemed way too ambitious. I don't think I can tackle these mountains more than two days at a time, three at most (which I don't think will be necessary anyway). But since it is open all-year around, it might make for good opportunity to do some winter hiking and camping, so perhaps I'll take one of the longer holiday weeks towards the end of the year to attempt it. We'll see where I'm at around that time haha.';

'>>2723016
My map for reference';

'>>2712132
>>2722076
Yes. Catskills are not shit, but just mid by comparison.

Pic related was me at the top of Marcy. It's the only place in the Dacks I've actually had to pay for parking, but it's a very cool experience to be based out of the ADK Loj. Some stuff has weird permit requirements like the AMR, but there's a lot of free parking if you're up early and have a game plan. Ideally you should go in mid-late August and not on weekends, avoids blackflies, parking filling up as fast, and seeing huge groups on most trails. I've gone most summers for the past 10 years and I'm going again next year with my gf (our third trip). Last summer I did a solo canoe portage and reserved a campsite on a lake to enjoy all to myself.
>>2722089
You can do that out of the hikes in the ADK Loj, where there's some lean-to spots and campsites available on the trail. Almost everyone starts with Cascade/Porter (Porter is hardly worth it desu). If you want a shorter hike do Balanced Rocks across the road. Other good day hike is Giant.';

'>>2722142
Texas in general is a shitshow for /out/. Unless you’re into Disneyfied ranch hunts, there’s virtually nowhere to go. I guess it’s okay way out west, but at that point might as well drive the extra couple hours to NM.';

'>>2723016
That's also a good way to do it. I attempted the Catskills 9 on my third hike in the range in the middle of a snowstorm and it was a bad idea, ended up not doing Cornell and Wittenberg but made it through the traverse. It's a rough set of peaks until you get good at feeling where the herd path is. Took me about an hour to traverse between each of the offtrail peaks. If you can do Devil's, you'll have the necessary fitness and knowledge to do the 9 in one go.

Enjoy dude, I fell in love with the range. IMO Panther and Kaaterskill have the best view. Overlook is probably the best non-3500 mountain to hike in the range.';

'>>2723170
Looking forward to it. It's insane that you attempted the 9 in a snowstorm haha. I'm going to have to come back for advice on how to prepare for the winter hikes, I barely survived being out in the ADK /after/ it had snowed and the weather dropped down to 20F. I'll move Devil's Path up before Slide and see how I fare. Maybe then I'll do Catskills 9+ Panther... I already have a neat name for it heheh';

'This Catskills discussion makes me realize that I need to go back out there sometime. How bad are the crowds for:

>Black Dome, Blackhead, Thomas Cole
>Wittenberg and Cornell from the north
>Table and Peekamoose
>Entire Catskills 9 traverse

I would probably go in May, June, or September during the workweek to avoid the summertime and leaf peeping circuses. Seeing a few people is fine, but being part of a hiking parade isn't how I want to spend my vacation time. Not interested in less-popular viewless hikes either since I can do plenty of that where I live without having to drive 10 hours round-trip.

Also looking to check out the Gunks which look intriguing and isn't too far from the Catskills.';

'>>2723024
>It's the only place in the Dacks I've actually had to pay for parking
you poor fool, paying for loj parking...

This is why I hate the adirondacks and will never return';

'>>2723273
If only there weren't millions of acres in other parts of the park';

'>>2723218
Blackhead (Mar 2022): Nobody on the trail except for me and my friend
Black Dome and Thomas Cole (Sep 2022): Went near sunset and descended in the dark. Nobody else on the trail.
Wittenberg and Cornell (Apr 2022): Did with a friend and only saw one group up on the trail and two guys on the summit of Wittenberg. No one on Cornell and descended in the dark.
Table and Peekamoose (Mar 2022): Did this one in an afternoon snowstorm after staying in the lean-to on the west side of Table. Didn't see a single soul until reaching the summit of Slide mountain after doing the loop. I didn't end up doing Cornell and Wittenberg that day but I did the other 7.

These were all on Saturdays. The most people I ever saw was really on the Devil's Path in April but that's a ton of trails slapped together, and it was less than 10 groups over the 25 miles.

I've had the best luck with sunsets and night descents if you really want to be alone.';

'>>2723356
Appreciate the response. I usually go for "alpine starts" in more popular areas. This usually means a quieter experience at the start, but more people on the way back. I've had mixed experiences on sunset hikes.
When I do a bunch of shorter hikes in a single day (like the fire towers or smaller hiking challenges), I'll do the more popular trails at the beginning and end of the day, and pick secluded "non-destination" hikes in between to avoid the midday crowds.';

'I just finished the 3500 list a few weeks ago. During the week or on any of the bushwhacks you'll barely run into anyone. I had plenty of days where I saw no one at all or less than five people.

It was a great challenge and an amazing experience. You won't regret doing it';

'>>2722558
you know that you can go to different places to hike, right? i live in the southwest and it's comical when people start shit talking coasts as if there's not cool shit everywhere. Just pure /in/ shitposting';

'>>2723374
Another thing to consider is doing them in the winter. With a full moon, due to the lack of foliage from blocking the moonlight/starlight/light pollution and the fact that snow reflects 90 percent of oncoming light, you can navigate without a headlamp at night. I didn't see cloud inversion but the range is stunning in the winter and even less crowded with the only people there being really quiet (for some reason asian?) hikers and snowshoers. It is also much quieter thanks to the snow absorbing the sound. I did second ascent of Blackhead (25MAR2023) in a blizzard and while no views, I was totally alone, the glissading down was a blast, and it was super cool to listen to the winds rip at the mountains.

you have to do Panther, Balsam, Slide, and Blackhead in the winter, might as well knock out a couple more. The snow is also east coast wet stuff so it gets nice and dense late in the season, nothing like powder out west in Colorado or Utah';

'>>2722142
I’m looking at tourists over I-35! How the hell did they get through?!';

'>>2723508
I've done winter hiking in the Catskills before and agree it's a nice experience. Looking to see some more greenery on this next trip however. Only time I went in the summer was to see Kaaterskill Falls decades ago. As you can guess it was crowded even back then.';

'>>2712080
Sedona Arizona. Absolutely gorgeous environment, but totally bogged down by hyper rich retired boomers. Insane traffic because the only way in is a single one lane road. Shops have a 200% markup on basic clothes and shoes. Fuck tons of foreigners stomping off trails and ruining natural formation. Overall just too crowded but still hailed as a “tiny nook” to checkout. You basically have to plan an extra 3 hours into all your plans. I’ve had a few enjoyable trips, but that was with considerable planning and patience.';

'>>2722558
>it's so pathetic that other people enjoy /out/ in a different way than I do
>don't they realize it's a competition and you have to have the biggest numbers in order for it to be fun';

'>>2723202
Having gotten into mountaineering since and spending way too much time in the snow, what made the big difference for me with winter hiking/camping was:
>Long snow gaiters (I use black diamonds)
>Stripping lots of layers while moving and throwing on a down jacket while stationary. This is mostly finesse.
>Cleaning my snow off my boots before standing near a fire so that I don't melt water on top of them and soak them. Leather is fairly resistant to snow and ice but not water.
>Non-insulated rain/snow pants
>Sleeping pad is as important as the sleeping bag
>liner gloves + thick gloves or pair of stupid thick mittens
>Wool socks.
>Layering. start with wool or dryfit base on the top, and then do fleeces/poly with the wind breaker on the outside. Down shouldn't be worn while exerting most of the time (there are exceptions)
>Embers shooting out from fires will burn through down jackets';

'>>2726238
>Stripping lots of layers while moving
>Non-insulated rain/snow pants
For the longest time I thought I was the only one';

'>>2724858
Anyone who goes to the Sedona area at this point and hasn't done their research is getting what they deserve. There are completely untouched areas within sight of the city (on and below the Rim). It still is kind of funny seeing easterners and foreigners getting helicoptered off mountains in blizzards (3 Arkansas anons lmao) and monsoon storms within sight of the city to.';

'>>2712147
I grew up there, it's beautiful. I'm out in Oregon now, which is pretty sweet too, but I'd like to plan to have time to do some hiking in the Adirondacks again the next time I head back East.';