'>>1191941
>When release?
soon you can count on that

>Next best mmo?
in the era of play conditioning
none';

'There will never be a good MMORPG ever again because of (You)';

'>>1191941
Throne & liberty';

'>>1191941
riot mmo probably will be big for a while';

'>>1198272
Nobody who is someone knows how to read that bullshit.';

'>>1191941
>Next best mmo? When release?

Shadowbane 2';

'>>1191941
Mabinogi Eternity and Dofus Unity are coming pretty soon, if that counts.';

'>>1209796
Dofus Unity? Wakfu and Dofus never recovered from removing PVP. Why would a graphical overhaul do anything for me';

'>>1191941
The next "big" MMORPG (that is one that reaches at a minimum the popularity levels of gw2/ESO) wont be like any mmorpgs you see now. And no, its not gonna be AoC. Not to say other mmorpgs or AoC are going to be complete failures. But they're going to fail to reach that huge popularity you see in those other mmorpgs. The next big one will be a mmorpg that captilizes/builds upon the concept of "playing alone together". A few mmorpgs have touched on this concept by accident, to some degree. But to this day their popularity can be attributed to it.
>ESO
Probably the biggest example. A vast majority of their audience basically quests by themselves and immerses themselves into the game. They share the world with other people. They see them in towns. Occasionally do an open world event and rarely some kind of instanced content. But their focus is the "singleplayer experience in a multiplayer world".
>SWTOR
Another example of a mmorpg with a main draw of the "questing", immersive, rpg experience.
>Secret World
Never reached huge popurality levels, but many people who did play it praised it heavily on its singleplayer questing experience
>Gw2
Has an entire open world experience built around playing alone together.

The mmorpg that really nails this concept in design will explode. But it is difficult. The questing experience needs to be good. Decent writing and not uncommonly, voiced quests. Psuedo choices too like ESO has. The other difficult is it relies heavily upon world building. SWTOR/ESO got off easy because of a pre-established world. A new IP entirely will have their work cut out for them in terms of world building.';

'>>1223618
Why this type of MMORPG?
>Age Brackets
Right now there's not a ton of older gamers. Its mainly millenials. As time goes on and millenials get older and when GenZ joins them in the 30+ age bracket, there's going to be a sizable older generation of gamers. A "playing alone together" mmorpg is more likely to appeal to them.
>A living world
People want to feel apart of a world that feels more alive, and mmorpgs do that fairly well since its actual people around you
>Competition
The differences in tech is becoming less and less. Graphics in games like ESO, Gw2, WoW, FF14 are already pretty good. Doing a design like them but better graphics is not enough. Along with this, people will compare your game to those games that have had 10+ years of content and polish. You need to offer something the others don't. Something that is also accessible to large audiences (so not PvP).
>"Toxicity" of groups
Finally, people are becoming more and more vocal of not wanting to deal with the troubles of finding a group and dealing with other people while playing their mmorpg. See all the people complaining about "toxicity" in mmorpgs and audiences preferences for "group finder" where the content is so easy everyone ignores one another.';

'>>1191941
Soon™';

'>>1223618
>>1223625
Stupidest shit I've read in a while. Most modern MMOs are completely soloable up to max level and only require groups for instanced content. Fucking hell, SWTOR is basically your average single-player Bioware game already, you can't even group up for most of FFXIV's MSQ and WoW pushes you to max level so fast that you basically have no time for group shit. The Secret World is dead and I never played GW2, but GW1 and FFXI already have AI controlled companions to replace to players in group content.
MMOs cannot become anymore solo friendly without making groups completely optional and designing content entirely around solo play, which is fucking stupid, because you'd be better off playing a traditional single-player game at that point.
The next biggest MMO will be a game with a large marketing push and enough content or player interactions to sustain the initial audience over a long period of time. Because of as we've seen with both Lost Ark and New World, new MMOs have no trouble bringing in players, it has trouble keeping them, especially those who already have a main MMO.';

'>>1232166
>new MMOs have no trouble bringing in players, it has trouble keeping them, especially those who already have a main MMO.

ESO, Gw2, FF14; they have all gone through the same things lost ark and new world has. They all had really bad launches with low populations that then bounced back (marketing + changes + new content) 2-4 years after release. Just this time the populations are even lower than before. That's because the design of WoW, FF14, Gw2, etc. Its all too formulaic now. People "get it" and they don't want to play another mmorpg where the endgame loop is the same as those games. That's why ESO didn't really take off until they made it "more like skyrim". And now ESO is this "singleplayer story focused" mmorpg, if such a thing exists.

I agree, its the stupidest shit in the world. A mmorpg built around a singleplayer experienced that is played in a shared world. Doesn't make any sense. But look at how the average players are playing in these game now a days. Look at how a reoccuring problem in almost every mmorpg is "getting players to participate in endgame". How content designed for groups or designs that push players into guilds is having major participation issues. How a game like WoW releases a new expansion and most of the population leaves after 1-2 months.

There will be other games that come out that have these designs. But they will, at most, reach popularity levels of Gw2. Nothing will come close to WoW or FF14 and the next type of mmorpg that does reach that will be a game that is built around this singleplayer experience in a shared world.';

'>>1232166
>Most modern MMOs are completely soloable up to max level and only require groups for instanced content. Fucking hell, SWTOR is basically your average single-player Bioware game already, you can't even group up for most of FFXIV's MSQ and WoW pushes you to max level so fast that you basically have no time for group shit.
>MMOs cannot become anymore solo friendly without making groups completely optional and designing content entirely around solo play, which is fucking stupid, because you'd be better off playing a traditional single-player game at that point.
Desu I'd go as far as to say that they're already at that point. Most games limit player interaction to such a degree that you are effectively forced into playing alone for most of your onboarding. Some of these games do not even allow you to add friends or initiate conversations with people either.

>>1237337
>Look at how a reoccuring problem in almost every mmorpg is "getting players to participate in endgame". How content designed for groups or designs that push players into guilds is having major participation issues.
This problem is two-fold. It depends on the content AND the community. Lost Ark was brought up, so I'll use that as an example since I recently played it for about a week.
>Try to make a party to learn a raid, get ignored
>Try to join a party to learn a raid, get ignored
>Every other party requires EXP players only and I'm not a big enough faggot to sneak into those runs (this applies to a good chunk of people desu)
>Over 90% of the listed runs were people trying to sell carries instead of playing the fucking game.
Lost Ark's problem with raids is that the playerbase is shit, but this is on top of the content itself being anal about wanting players to make several alts to funnel gear towards a main, which reinforces the other issue because people just want to clear 20x a week on alts so why join a newfriend run? The game also has a shit kMMO gearing system but that's another issue.';

'>>1237589
>Most games limit player interaction to such a degree that you are effectively forced into playing alone for most of your onboarding
This is my thoughts exactly. So many games you play your like first 50-60 hours alone. Or you "group up" but you rarely speak to or interact with your group (LFG dungeons in WoW as an example). These games then put in things like "mythic" raiding and such and what ends up happening? They have population issues in that content. The amount of players participating is drastically lower than the previous "solo" or limited interaction content. So it seems like, to me, that there's a playerbase here that is trying to fit a square peg into a circle hole. Devs realize this and that's why they make the changes they do to try to appeal to this majority. But these games weren't built from the ground up to appeal to these audiences. So it works, for now, but it feels awkward. If a MMORPG manages to figure out the right "formula" to make this section of audiences happy, it will blow up.

The situation you bring up with lost ark is a very common one and something that I think is the major contributor to the above issue. The "expectations" to do content at a certain level and the "gatekeeping" behaviors that come with it, people just don't want to deal with it. I see the same thing in ESO with Vet Trials, in Gw2 and their version of raiding. Hell, its been a large discussion around SoD in WoW with parse checking. Part of the problem these systems exist for a somewhat good system because so many players are dogshit at the game. Along the same lines of what you said, experienced people don't want to deal with new players. So you get this friction. Which I think is leading to players dismissing this type of content and preferring solo experiences. But they still want to chat with players, have players around them, maybe some easy/lite group questing/world events. And do all this while playing engaging solo gameplay and story lines.';

'>>1237649
>So it seems like, to me, that there's a playerbase here that is trying to fit a square peg into a circle hole
An endgame catered around having groups of people won't hold the interest of people who wish to play alone. Likewise, being forced to play alone for countless hours before you can do anything with someone else will drive a large chunk of those people away. In some cases, the social-focused player cannot cope by chatting with people while doing solo-oriented content due to account restrictions.
This is without considering the issue of multiplayer games having "bad" communities or that some of the truly multiplayer MMOs become unplayable if you do not have enough people in the right roles, which can cause a game's population to deathspiral even further.

For example, some games may have a massive shortage of tanks from level 30-50, while level 70+ has an overabundance of tanks. Meanwhile, spellcasters might be approximately even across the board, and healers might be popular until level 45 or so with an extreme scarcity at level cap. This is part of why some games have embraced homogenization, or at the very least the option of allowing players to spec into an alternative role (e.g. a paladin who focuses on healing and holy spells vs one that can tank vs another that uses a warhammer to function as a damage dealer) with a reasonable amount of setup (e.g. you can only change while in town or you might need specific gear to perform an off-meta role)';

'>>1237694
>being forced to play alone for countless hours before you can do anything with someone else will drive a large chunk of those people away
And that's where I think the "playing alone together" really comes into play for these players.

A game like Gw2 has the "Dynamic event" system to bring the players together. Ranging from small encounters of varying objectives to large world bosses that gather even endgame players. In these instances, the players rarely talk to one another. They work towards a common group in a "group" event, but don't actually need to interface with one another. Of course there are some "endgame" dynamic events in which come communication is required. But even then its minimal. ESO is another game with a similar system. Where they have these "incursion" events (varying flavors, but they're all pretty much the same thing. Just a different coat of paint for each expansion). FF14 I think has a similar event system. WoW has a similar open world event system. I'm not sure about FF14, but WoW's addition of this design was kind of "shoehorned" in after the success of Gw2 and ESO. Along side this, most of these games are still a "solo" leveling experience. Even WoW with its "dungeon spam", nobody really interacts with one another while leveling. Its almost the same concept as the dynamic events.

Along with this in the topic of Gw2 and ESO, they designed the game from the get go with this type of content. What they didn't expect is how popular it became. Gw2 had to rework its even system at the endgame to be endgame feasible due to popular demand. And to this day its more popular than dungeons/raids. ESO didn't expect to become a mmorpg with a lot of "skyrim like" features.

Now imagine a mmorpg designed from the ground up around these designs that they had to put in post launch. That will be the next big thing, if someone can figure out the right formula';

'>>1191941
None, moral society is a thing of the past and you will never have a way of gathering the few old-era people who made a community good 25 years ago. If you want a chance at a good MMO experience now, we need a mass-extinction event and 1950s america/europe culture to manifest and remain, and you need to be born into this time. Also, no niggers.';

'>>1209796
excited for mabinogi eternity';

'>>1224134
>lets go back to mind numbingly boring gameplay that was only tolerated because of the novelty of playing with thousands of people from around the world
no thanks';

'>>1232166
>MMOs cannot become anymore solo friendly without making groups completely optional and designing content entirely around solo play, which is fucking stupid, because you'd be better off playing a traditional single-player game at that point.
Exactly this


>The next biggest MMO will be a game with a large marketing push and enough content or player interactions to sustain the initial audience over a long period of time. Because of as we've seen with both Lost Ark and New World, new MMOs have no trouble bringing in players, it has trouble keeping them, especially those who already have a main MMO.

I still play Aion for several reasons, this being one. People play MMO for the massive and the multi-player part. Why they are basically single player in large multi-player world is beyond me.';

'>>1223625
>Something that is also accessible to large audiences (so not PvP).

So is Aion the only open world pvp game left, like containment? Isn't pvp where the action is?';

'>>1232166
>GW1 and FFXI already have AI controlled companions to replace to players in group content.

NCsoft did not do this for Aion. Once an instanced dungeon has outlived its usefulness it is made a solo dungeon or removed.';

'>>1237589
>kMMO gearing system

Explain this';

'I could see a turn based MMO blow up in today's gaming scene.
>comfy vibes because you play turn by turn
>mobile friendly gameplay
>can go for cutesy or stylized aesthetic (see Dofus) which is pretty popular
>strategic gameplay will draw in fans of single player strategy games, tapping into a new playerbase
>can still make encounters that will satisfy build autists
If only Dofus wasn't so horribly mismanaged by Ankama it might have seen massive worldwide appeal.';

'>>1191941
Give it 20 years.

Ironically the closest thing we have to a proper next gen MMO is fucking scam citizen, the monetization model is fucking gay but from what little I played of it is actually technologically fucking amazing going from planet to planet with no loading screens and just being able to land anywhere and fuck around on speeder bikes and shit.

The issue of course is the gay p2w and lack of real content in the game, just a credit grind sandbox, without any of the buckets and shovels needed to make our own fun, just RP.';

'>>1241264
Late game gear in korean MMOs is straight power gains with little-no interesting mechanics, and gear progression is straight up an RNG slot machine harkoning back to the days of lineage 2

Granted the linear power progression of modern MMOs is a huge problem in the west as well, looking at WOW where the gear is not only boring and RNG based, its also timegated to hell turning the game into a FOMO nightmare that ultimately, doesn't fucking matter because gear is only useful to kill the boss that it dropped from once you beat the raid, next patch its all replaced by M+ gear.';

'>>1223625
Graphics don't mean shit.

Games like retail WOW and FF14 tech wise are absolutely dogshit trash as MMOs because they're nothing more than instance simulators

And I especially want to highlight WOW which was -THE- MMO that first became popular because you had whole continents without loading screens and that was a big selling point, and now if you get more than 40 people in the world together and blizzard didn't backup the server node the world server litterally crashes, and has done so many times live on stream, meanwhile FF14 is so dogshit at player scaling that your view distance for seeing other players in populated areas is only like 5 fucking feet.

The whole point of playing an MMO is to share a world with hundreds-thousands of people around the world. If you want your own friends only server, play a game designed for it like minecraft, rust, ark, ect. Player dynamics are the whole appeal of MMOs, and im sorry if your game devolves into never ending instanced queues why the FUCK would I play that over any other game that offers co-op multiplayer without the MMO jank such as slow server ticks, archaic combat (even korean MMO 'action' combat sucks compared to non-MMOs), and bullshit gacha systems either designed to prolong a sub (M+ vaults)or get you to p2w (koreashit).';

'Please fucking stop with
>trying to recreate the success of WOW by copying retail WOW and its dogshit hallway speedrun metagame
>"raids" that consist of sitting in a box with a 'boss' who's only mechanic is causing sparkly circles and lines to show up on the ground that one shot you and takes 6 minutes of spamming a 5 button rotation to kill while playing the floor is lava
>designing the class around 'the trinity', the trinity only started being a thing because they wanted to streamline for raids, but this robs class design of actual engaging mechanics, look at most FF14 or WOW raids where the actual interaction with the boss involves some kind of extra action button or QTE or dropping void zones, it never involves you using your actual class kit to do something interesting
>divorcing PVP from the world and minigamifying it, stop making dogshit MOBAs and calling it PVP, MMO PVP should be in the world and involve players in a dynamic enviroment, not capturing the flag for 20 fucking years, you don't have to force people to engage in it either, but PVP is the ultimate end game where players can make their own fun dueling or fighting eachother, no one cares about the uber endgame super boss demon dragon megadeath sword if its only good at killing the uber end game super boss demon dragon 5 seconds faster next week
>being a lone wolf =/= I want everything to cater to my playstyle. Stop making the game single player for whiny forum faggots, people who want to play solo enjoy the challenge, and we still want to interact with the community, just in our own aloof way and still enjoy teaming up from time to time without it becoming a commitment.
>stop making hallway dungeons, the tech for dynamic roguelike dungeons has been around in many forms for years now, make big sprawling dungeons and every time a boss is killed the layout, mobs, treasures, and bosses also change, instead of having a static rush to the end 3 boss infinity grind';

'>>1241316
>10 man isn't a fucking raid, and 8 man 'raids' are a fucking meme, if you're going to make a raid, and make it a single encounter, make it big, bombastic, and awesome, not 8-10 faggots playing musical chairs with glowing ground
>hard dungeon/raid caps are retarded and just makes it feel shitty when you have 6+ people online who want to play together but you have to bench someone because you developers think you have to hyperbalance your MMO when gear differences already breaks any 'balance' there might be on paper
>timegating, if you have to tell your player base to stop fucking playing your game by no longer allowing them to get rewarded for doing so because you think they'll blow through the pittence of content you designed to be speedran, you fucked up
>Stop adding in so much fast travel, no clip flying mounts, ect. If players aren't enjoying your world and are just going from point A to point B 24/7 and you're catering to that instead of turning your linear experience into a sandbox/open world one, you're destroying your MMO.
>The game starts at 1, not some arbitrary 'end game' 50-200 hours later, if your game is not fun out of the box, why bother, newbros and vets should be in the same pool of players and should be able to equally pull their weight, no one should ever be turned down because of 'item level' or some arbitrary third party bullshit like gearscore or raider io';

'>>1241321
And the biggest fucking thing to stop
>stop designing your game around minigames based on other, free/cheap games that do that minigame better, battlegrounds are inferior to mobas, WOW's latest blunderstorm is paying a fucking monthly sub just to play fucking fortnite';

'>people putting "solo friendly" as a positive
this is why mmos are fucking dead unironically. This genre is supposed to be forcing cooperation to do literally anything not being fucking singleplayer live service games.';

'>>1241418
Solo friendly isn't bad, its when solo becomes superior to grouping that its an issue.

I am a lone wolf in MMOs most of the time, but thats because I enjoy the challenge of doing content designed for small groups alone, and the dynamics of teaming up with random players.

But when you make everything into a braindead solo autism farm simulator and give 'solo players' the ability to queue together its fucking lame and defeats the whole point.

Like the issue devs seemed to have had was they were making exclusively 5 player/raid content and didn't design any open world content anymore, so they thought 'lfg lfg lfg' was a problem with the lack of a queue system and not the issue that the games devolved into becoming raid or die instanced dogshit';

'>>1191941
albion is releasing in europe, the only mmo worth playing since it has actual pvp and its not a themepark for redditors';

'>>1241418
always makes me laugh when people ask for mmos to play followed by "I have anxiety issues I cannot talk to people etc etc"';

'>>1242480
Cool. I'll probably start it again since the ping was the dealbreaker for me.';

'>>1242734
yeah same, albion is what i wanted from an mmo since I stopped playing lineage 2 and guild wars 1 but the NA only ping completely turned me off for years, now the fresh start + EU server is gonna be kino';

'mmos are dead

let them rest in peace';

'>>1242869
theme park mmos are dead, and that's a good thing';

'>>1242869
WOW clones never lived.

Only WOW was ever popular, and their clones always try to streamline for end game raiding when WOW already streamlined itself and lost 75% of its playerbase because it turns out 'end game' is the end of the game so if you fast track them to end game they quit';

'>>1237337
I have a feeling we will have another resurgence in MMOs when dynamic server meshing becomes easier to implement and commonplace.

You can stitch up multiple servers together (both layered to service the same area, and spread across different areas) to allow for a high concentration of players whilst minimizing compromises made on the complexity of the game mechanics to account for server limitations.
I don't think it will be infinitely scalable there will most likely be bottlenecks but it will be far more scaleable than what has been done in major MMOs whilst allowing for deeper mechanics.
Games like Eve online would benefit from this sort of tech, but they have made some clever compromises. Time dilation sucks would be good if the need for it was no longer required or it's effect is lessened at the very least.

I think Star Citizen will be big in the MMO game if it manages to pull it off.';

'>>1243410
Its really sad to think that Scam Citizen is currently the only canidate for next gen MMO because they're actually advancing the tech while all the games that call themselves MMOs bend assbackwards to compromise the MMO experience in order to cater to people who don't want to play MMOs. Like WOW still refusing to merge servers or adding in tech to let you transfer at will so you can play with your friends in their guild if your server dies, but they'll work on extensive spegetti code so that you can get a facsimile of that experience, such as cross realm zoning, phasing, battlegroup dungeon queues, secondary app grouping, crossfaction dungeons and mercenary mode so you can pretend your server isn't dead AF and blizzard refuses to fix it because they want to jew vet players out of $25 per character transfers or $60 level boosts to reroll';

'>>1243431
SC is better at jewing veterans as well lol.
I think sandbox works best for MMOs, you can't easily wiki what is going on in the present.
Locust Meta is boring there is no mystery or draw to it, It'd be no different than doing a 9 to 5 and arguably even less exciting.';

'>>1243436
I mean boomers will gravitate towards games without gacha shit which has infested modern MMOs with daily/weekly chore bullshit, so it makes sense.';

'>>1243337
The fuck is a negrotic wake?';

'>>1243410
>I think Star Citizen will be big in the MMO game if it manages to pull it off.
Anyone following /scg/ knows that it looks like they're actually pulling it off. 1000 player test with players shooting projectiles at each other between meshed servers.';

'>>1242869
never... NEVER';

'>>1191941
There is only one answer.
There is only one project even trying to be a real next generation MMO.
>>1243410
>>1243431
>>1241296

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWm_OhIKms8';

'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0PN1rd55TU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvW-7cXtlOc';

'Get rid of instances. That's the first step to making MMORPGs fun again.';

'>>1191941
albion is releasing in EU, only mmo worth playing, absolutely loving the closed beta so far, nothing better than killing a retard that is stupid enough to bring high tier gear in the full loot zone';

'>>1246163
This.';

'MMOs are actually extremely scary game designs to the Communist DEI elite in power currently. There is too much meritocracy in a typical MMO and not enough equity, so the task becomes mutating and mutilating MMOs into DEI shit (like everything else).

You look at the way 2 distinct MMOs functioned: Ultima Online and EverQuest. Both were extremely tranny and DEI unfriendly. In Ultima Online you had PvP, so shameless tranny types would be hunted for sport since it was entertainment. In fact, they would be hunted so badly that people would unite to hunt them just for the laughter factor. That is forbidden now and protection of the most defective is a modern Communist mainstay.

Meanwhile in EverQuest, a PvE MMO, efficiency and optimization was key as was diplomacy and social skills when it came to guilds and group content. The sheer investment of everyone involved was simply incompatible with someone needing to dilate constantly and no one wants to sit in a group with someone that creepy for hours at a time. Over time, the drama seeking/creating nature of the tranny would lead to their out casting. This is forbidden now.

Because of this, you will not see a decent MMO for a long time because those in power simply won't allow it. This means every attempt at an MMO that defies the marching orders of the central governing body of Earth (which is largely derived from Marxism currently) will need to be funded in non-standard ways which will typically make an already uphill battle of designing a good MMO and even harder one.';

'>>1241316
>PVP is the ultimate end game where players can make their own fun dueling
PVPers are so retarded. Just play an actual game meant for PVP instead of clamoring for it where it doesn't belong.';

'>>1251038
What's a real pvp game?';

'>>1243410
>ames like Eve online would benefit from this sort of tech, but they have made some clever compromises
works fine in albion desu';

'Eve 2.0, never';

'I just wish there was a good warhammer old world mmo';

'>>1224134
>Soon™
>Monsters & Memories will enter Early Access in January 2026.
>been in development since 2020
Nice, maybe my grandchildren will have something to play by the time it's out.';

'>>1264277
Still waiting on that new private server. I'm pretty sure it'll never actually release.';