'>>10846072
https://support.gamehouse.com/hc/en-us/articles/217219267-Windows-10-and-11-incompatible-games';

'>>10846072
win9x is a completely separate operating system, anything that "kind of" runs on later versions of windows is just using emulated compatibility layers and is a glitchy bug-ridden mess';

'>>10846072
maybe some games that only ran in DOS. Street Rod 2 maybe';

'>>10846072
there are games like Meat Puppet or Warhammer Chaos Gate that I could only get to work on emulators
yet I see them show up on steam and gog and other people somehow got them to run on win10';

'>>10846072
SimCopter';

'>>10846072
The first black & white release utterly required it up until like three years ago.
Other than that, who cares? The fun of it is really that native PC feel.';

'Mechwarrior 3 was one of those until two or three years ago. Can't come up with anything else worth a mention.';

'>>10846185
We made wrappers because we couldn't help it.
Honestly I can't think of much that isn't playable at least in windows 10. Mostly even with English translations.
Honestly, I would try to stake a claim but I can't think of nearly a damn thing that hasn't been wrapped in dgvoodoo or something and is playable even in widescreen, maybe.';

'>>10846072
官能教習';

'>>10846072
Mechwarrior 2/GBL/Mercs' windows versions
Heavy gear 2

Weirdly it seems to be old mech games that have the most trouble in my experience. Most other games just work if you use dgvoodoo2.';

'>>10846286
You sure about MW2? I played Titanium Trilogy on W7 not that long ago, everything worked fine.';

'>>10846245
This, there are several eroge who want Win95 or Win98 specifically, and require emulation to run.';

'>>10846293
I was referring to the original windows 95 versions. I also got Titanium to 'work' but all the textures were white, I think that's because I have an AMD GPU though.';

'>>10846072
none that i really want to play except above MW3 post. I kinda want to play Win 3.1 games i missed out on but those can mostly run on DOSBox too.

biggest problem with many Win98 games seems to be the need to force modern multi-core CPUs to use only 1 processor/CPU thread. but that's a problem with earlier WinXP games too.

>>10846185
#metoo.... i still haven't played it.

>>10846245
shouldn't it be possible to hack the installation or runtime detection to allow any Windows OS at all?';

'>>10846319
>shouldn't it be possible to hack the installation or runtime detection to allow any Windows OS at all?
Be my guest.
https://workupload.com/file/bVFtkaqDZJw
While typically the failing point is DRM, this game doesn't have copy protection and doesn't do OS version checks, it just tries to use something that doesn't exist or works differently in WinNT-family OS. It simply NEEDS Win95/98/ME or it breaks.';

'the big two for me were always mech warrior 3 and crimson skies. still can't into making crimson skies work';

'I don't think it's so much Windows 98 that's needed as the sorts of hardware the game works best with having no real support past the 9x era.';

'>>10846164
That's not true, I remember playing B&W on a Vista machine.';

'>>10846451
It's both. You need the hardware, you need the APIs and you need the system integration to use it all. Certain games just work a particular way that requires the right combination of OS, software, and hardware.';

'You can install Windows 98 on Dosbox inside Retroarch these days and play some difficult games to run. I have a lot of edutainment for my son and some good old pinball games like Slam Tilt, Full Tilt 1 and 2, Ultra 3D pinball.';

'>>10846440
For Crimson Skies I downloaded the one from MagiPack. Already included some fixes for modern OS. Worked fine on both Win7 and Win10 when I tested it. The site has Mech Warrior 3 also, but never tried that one.';

'>>10846319
>biggest problem with many Win98 games seems to be the need to force modern multi-core CPUs to use only 1 processor/CPU thread. but that's a problem with earlier WinXP games too.
That's why I still have my Pentium 4 PC with an AGP card.';

'>>10846072
Here's a question, how do the games that run best on win9x fair using wine?';

'>>10846113
That's not always true. No World Order runs on 95 and on XP with no problems, but can't launch at all on 98.

>>10846138
steam releases are either 1) supplying the necessary workarounds with the game, or 2) just don't work at all (possibly because they were released to steam during XP/vista days and did work then, but no one haa gone back to fix them). Steam QC is non-existent so there's no impetus to fix random old games in a company's catalog. You end up relying on reviews that say "great game but steam version doesn't work"';

'>>10846072
I don't think there's a way to play picrel and have the soundtrack working on modern OSes yet. I personally use a DOSBox Windows 3.11 install so I can launch it directly from a shortcut.';

'>>10846139
?
I've been able to get SimCopter to work fine on WinXP systems and above, even before the SimCopterX patches were developed. Are you using a slowdown utility or a framerate limiter? I know that's an essential workaround, even on fast (1GHz+) Win9x machines.';

'Windows NT was a mistake.';

'>>10846651
Startup sound was dope though.';

'>>10846651
Windows was a mistake.';

'>>10846640
>soundtrack working
Play PSX version.';

'>>10846338
>it just tries to use something that doesn't exist or works differently in WinNT-family OS
then probably missing DLLs or some kinda lib assets that don't work in WinNT-progenies. that or one of those wonky DOS/Win hybrid games that needed both Win98 and full installations of DOS.';

'>>10846651
my fav was Win2000 though.

>>10846683
it got no games.';

'>>10846185
Mechwarrior2';

'>>10846731
Yeah, 2K was wonderful. All the stability of XP without the bloat.';

'>>10846731
People use blackwingcat extended kernel to run WinXP programs in Win 2000.';

'>>10846713
No need when I can play the original without that issue in DOSBox/PCEm/86box etc';

'>>10846487
THANK YOU SO MUCH god it's been so long';

'>>10846072
Diablo 2 v1.0.';

'Most people here seem to post games that can be made to work on Win 7+

I have noticed though that usually those Win 95 and Win 98 JP games tend to be picky with anything that isn't Win9x, beside that, I know Burn Cycle only seems to work with Win9x';

'Worth it too this game kicks ass';

'>>10846127
Dos games run better in modern Windows than Windows 95 games do.';

'>>10847724
What about dos games on linux?';

'>>10846072
Look up "Pcem" on Archive.org and look for the dude who posts full game rips of old Windows games that are pre packaged with an installer. It will literally include a Pcem build plus installer which will run on even a Windows 10 or 11 machine. I am a Linux fag at heart but I debate getting a Mini PC running Windows 10 for this and eXoDOS alone.';

'>>10847813
Just use eXoDOS or if you must be the crazy type, either use DOSBox Pure for the convenience or DOSBox Staging if you really feel the need to do it yourself.';

'>>10848238
Does eXoDOS even work on Linux?';

'>>10846072
The original Aureal A3D sound implementation of Thief: The Dark Project (and other games) requires physical A3D hardware and drivers that stopped at WinXP. Creative Labs bought Aureal out and gutted the tech in order to push EAX and speaker sales. EAX is shit. If you've never heard a game with true A3D implementation, you missed some of those most amazing sound design ever achieved. The technology was originally developed in conjunction with NASA (back when that meant something) and was also used in hearing aids. It has the ability to create an illusion of a full 3D soundscape using only 2D stereo speakers (particularly headphones). You can tell when things are in front of you, behind you, above you, below you, what direction they're moving relative to you, etc. Now, you might say "Oh, I've heard plenty of stuff like that before". Yes, you've heard stuff /like that/ before. But the original algorithms blow EVERYTHING that came since out of the water. There's just no way to explain how good it was in words, modern 3D sound environment simulation simply isn't very good. Fuck EAX, fuck OpenAL, fuck everything. We lost a true treasure because of Creative's monopolistic faggotry.';

'>>10846072
Dementia its' state of mind and Black Dahlia';

'>>10846286
>>10847439
Get it from magipack and then check out PCGamingwiki for widescreen.';

'>>10848339
>a full 3D soundscape using only 2D stereo speakers (particularly headphones
a meme. it really depended more on the sound source and how it was recorded. and it worked better with headphones.';

'was windows me half-assed to purposefully kill off win9x';

'>>10849503
Does it fix the CD music?';

'>>10846754
no, i've had the demo running on win10 with dgvoodoo or whatever. i don't see why the real game wouldn't. the only problem for me was it expected your kb to have a numpad';

'>>10849543
You weren't even born yet, you fucking idiot.';

'I am interested in improving my reverse engineering skills by taking on a project of getting a game that no longer runs working on modern systems on Win10/11. Any specific requests?';

'>>10848339
I am curious if you are a disgruntled former employee or merely autistic about sound design?';

'>>10849543
Lol, you think they would have recorded different samples for each possible direction and distance the sound could have came from?

You're retarded.';

'>>10846072
Operation Innerspace';

'>>10846072
Polaris SnoCross';

'>>10846608
*fare';

'>>10851221
do you have a single fact to back up your low quality butthurt accusation assumption?';

'>>10846608
Off the top of my head Claw, Road Rash and Microman ran fine, this one >>10851249 launches with some graphical issues but it's functional';

'>>10850273
Yes. Probably for HG1, too.';

'>>10846072
The original school days game,the only way to play it is under windows xp since modern os and hardware can't play it (won't work on virtual machine).';

'For these hard-to-run Win9x games, is there any advantage to running them on Windows 98 as opposed to Windows 95? I'd assume the latter would be more lightweight and thus have better performance, or am I mistaken?';

'>>10848275
Yes, but I wouldn't recommend it, it's better to just get some shit Win 10 box that's offline for this reason alone, see this video

https://youtu.be/m5CKqR8WD7Y?si=0BfMvU9OufN3r4vd';

'>>10846486
You can also do this on an old Xbox as well, but the same video has kind of a similar guide you can use for other scenarios as well

https://youtu.be/kqGjLE9eqb8?si=rDqU9CsAM0E8Fx5j';

'>>10852932

Just do this:
>>10848234';

'>>10848234
>I am a Linux fag at heart but I need windows to emulate dos games';

'>>10851335
Just what you said, which is that audio positioning depends on the sound source and how it was recorded rather than algorithms to position audio in 3D space as mentioned in the post you were replying to.

If what I said isn't what you meant then you really really don't understand what you're talking about.';

'So far, just about every game mentioned ITT save for the nip eroges seems to have a workaround according to the PC Gaming Wiki.';

'>>10850892
Well, try that one then >>10846245 >>10846338
I don't even know which debugger to use under Win9x';

'>>10854197
>workaround
coping strategy for people too poor/late to own a voodoo card';

'>>10846072
MS Golf 98
It can run under Windows XP sometimes but anything beyond that is impossible';

'>>10846072
Road & Track presents: The Need for Speed Special Edition.';

'Has anyone here tried qemu-3dfx for running win9x games? I'm not familiar with qemu or compiling software and the guy who makes it seems like an asshole. I'm willing to learn how to use it and I'm trying to work it out now. But I'm just wondering if anyone here knows if its any good or not? He's always going on an autistic rampage on youtube, github, and vogons about PCem.';

'>>10846072
I could never get HeavyGear 1 working right past windows XP. The game will install and let me play the first mission (with tons of minor graphical bugs) but then crash to desktop on trying to load the second mission.

>>10846648
NTA but I remember trying to get SimCopter running on my Win7 machine and even with a slowdown utility the game was very unstable.';

'So I've been dicking around with Windows 95 on DOSBox-X, and I managed to install Croc on it with fully functioning Voodoo emulation and Redbook audio. I even made a DOSBox shortcut such that it automatically boots into Windows, then loads the game on startup, so the game starts super quickly. Thing is, since it uses Redbook audio, it means the CD image has to be present to get music, so that also has to be loaded automatically. I'd like to distribute this as an all-in-one package, but it's looking like it's going to be about 900MB in size or thereabouts. I may be able to get it a bit lower, though, since apparently Windows 95 itself can be trimmed of quite a bit of fat so it takes up less than 50MB. Let's see how far down I can take it so that it does literally nothing but load the game successfully.';

'>>10846113
Like the original hardware or virtual machine drivers aren't a glitchy bug-ridden mess';

'I noticed that Win 95 games are the most frequent offenders.';

'>>10855265
How was your luck setting up a 3+ people multiplayer? That's the only advantage over DOS version.';

'>>10846072
16-bit games (or 32-bit games with 16-bit installers, fuck InstallShield btw) straight up won't work without a VM installation of an older version of Windows, but everything else usually has a workaround or two. Extracting dgVoodoo2 to the game's folder does the trick in 99% cases.';

'>>10857450
Are you the anon I was talking about a win9x megapack on that dosbox/86box thread? Because I've learned more about differencing vhds if you are. I also learned that dosbox-x is really limited in terms of what it can do. You can't set a differencing images parent to be a relative path, but you can make a powershell script that will recursively go through folders looking for vhds and reset the parent path. Meaning no need for redundant windows 98 installations. I've already made the powershell script.

I'm also experimenting with qemu-3dfx which might be a more promising approaching to getting the games to run.

If you're not the anon I'm thinking of, then this info might be useful to you anyway.';

'>>10857740
Oh and even though you can't set the parent path to be relative. If everyone has their parent vhd in C:\dosbox or whatever, then the child images can be wherever and they'll still know to look for the parent vhd in C:\dosbox. Which is another alternative solution to using differencing images instead of 400mb installs of windows on each game and trimming windows 98 so much that it loses functionality. Best of both worlds.';

'In other news, Descent 3 source code was released
https://github.com/kevinbentley/Descent3';

'>>10851145
>dude bad things the same as good things so you shouldn't like good things
I don't understand the mental damage behind your post.';

'>>10856694
>even with a slowdown utility the game was very unstable
I try to target 30 FPS or the game's physics just go bonkers and cause near instant CTDs. I used to use CPU slowdown utils for this but switched to virtualization or relying on ddraw wrappers since modern processors are too fast for that method of controlling FPS.
Even on period correct hardware, Simcopter is just a crash-happy game. There's a reason why the manual has explicit instructions on how to do a "safe load" when opening a city or career file.';

'>>10858914
>There's a reason why the manual has explicit instructions on how to do a "safe load" when opening a city or career file.
I can't seem to find this section, would you give me a hand?';

'>>10857740
That's pretty cool. I was thinking you could just install a very minimal Windows installation, then keep making copies and installing the game you want on each copy. Or something like that.';

'>>10851145
he's not wrong about Creative. same reason counter strike source has worse sound than 1.6';

'>>10857715
otvdm gets past most of these installers natively now. It allows 16bit Win3x/9x apps to work in modern/64bit Windows. Kinda hit-or-miss for 16bit games themselves, though.';

'So I just found what purports to be an unfinished version of the Windows Entertainment Pack for Windows NT/2000:
https://archive.org/details/BestOfWindowsEntertainmentPack64Bit
I can confirm all the games work on 64-bit Windows 10 without any fiddling whatsoever. Pretty cool.';

'>>10862256
Thanks fren <3 always interested in older pc stuffs.';

'>>10846072
>>10857740
What happened to the anon who was working on a premade staging with Win98SE included?
The one that it is on archive.org has issues with cd drivers';

'>>10846640
There is now:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ2-mge-several-fixes-and-additions-with-support-for-music-tracks.688546/';

'>>10846185
i own this and a joystick, what OS would it run best on? i played it on windows 7 or something a year or two back and it didnt run well.';

'>>10846608
Don't Win9X games work the same as they do on Windows 10/11?';

'>>10847439
Is this a linux exclusive?';

'>>10846286
There are DxWind patches for the Mech2 games now, or at least vanilla and GBL. Not sure about mercs since I don't care as much about it.';

'>>10860164
Not in the printed manual but it's in the README files on the disc, first paragraph after the list of command-line parameters
>Safe game loading/saving
>If you are ever having a problem loading or saving .scu or .scc (SimCopter User and SimCopter Career) files, you can hold down the control key to do a "safe" save or load. To do a safe save while playing, hold down the control key before saving and keep it held until the entire save is complete. To do a safe load while at the main game menu, hold down the control key before you select the load operation and keep it held until the screen game initialization screen (the light blue screen with the small circling helicopter) appears. A safe-saved game stores only the most basic information about the game, such as the current city level, your points and your posessions. It doesn't save the current missions, city state, nor helicopter state. If SimCopter encounters an unrecoverable program error during play and prompts you to save the game, it always will do a safe save. A safe load will load only the basic information out of a saved game, even if the saved game was not saved with the safe save option.';

'>>10863214
Yes/no
Wine has many fixes in place that MS never implemented for older software. So sometimes if something is broke on Win7 and later OSs, you can get it running with the Wine DLLs.';

'>>10851145
NTA, but if you've never experienced it for yourself, then you don't really know what you are missing.
Around 2002-2003 or so, I was visiting my hardcore gamer uncle, and he had Half Life running. I was in amazement at how utterly real it sounded, in terms of directions of sounds and footsteps and echo and everything. He burnt me a copy of the game(yes, we were dirty pirates), and I brought it home. Played the holy fuck out of the game, but I couldn't understand why the sound was so flat compared to my uncle's PC. Years later I finally read about A3D, and it clicked.';

'>>10848339
What about MetaAudio? It's goldsrc only but it reimplements HRTF
https://github.com/LAGonauta/MetaAudio
https://pastebin.com/L5BTxMVW';

'>>10848339
>unreal, deus ex and gothic were supported
I don't know how accurate it is but someone made a wrapper
https://github.com/joncampbell123/dosbox-x/issues/3597#issuecomment-1868371296';

'>>10853080
so.... you don't have any citations and factsheets whatsoever and just accused a guy on a mongo cartoon board of "don't understand what you're talking about". ok, weak sauce trollb8.';

'>>10865925
NTA, but here's your citation:
>>10849543
>a meme. it really depended more on the sound source and how it was recorded
No amount of cope will ever make that underage shitpost less embarrassing.';

'>>10858020
No I was genuinely curious if you used to work in sound design because it sounds like you have a lot of knowledge about Creative Labs and the technology itself';

'>>10857590
I didn't play it. OP asked for games that require an actual Win9x installation to work, and I provided an example.';

'>>10846072
lmao, just install linux and use wine';

'>picrel';

'>>10850892
>>10854786
>>10846245
>>10846338
I gave it a shot and I wanted to post a progress update :) . All that's needed is to build a new installer and it should be working on modern systems.';

'>>10868217
I should clarify, all that's still needed is to build a new installer. I had to make a modification to the WIN_KAN.EXE binary to allow it to run on modern systems';

'>>10867372
It's not that it doesn't completely work, it just really annoying to get working that you might as well go for the sega cd version. I don't remember if it was Win 8 or 10, but I know I played it on one of those. Requires a patch or 2 to fix some sound issues from what I remember, and if you plan on playing from a disc image, you'd need to mount the image in the D drive otherwise you'd get no music.';

'Been curious to try making a minimal Windows 98 parent HDD, right now I just have a standard Win98 install that's working pretty well.

>>10868217
>>10868230
Are you documenting the changes you made in case it other software can use the same or similar techniques? For the installer, wonder if it'd be easier to make one that would utilize the original disc image to create and patch what's needed.';

'>>10868446
Here's what I found so far:
1. While the game is 32-bit, it is compiled in a way that modern Windows determines isn't 32-bit and gives a "This app can't run on your PC" error. I was able to resolve this by patching the two bytes pictured from D3 11 to 00 0E.
2. The game writes regkeys to Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TETRATECH
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\TETRATECH
They contain paths to the data files and the game shortcuts
3. The game attempts to write save data into the program's install dir in the files named FLAG00 to FLAG10. File permissions need to be set appropriately to allow the save files to be written because Windows does not allow this by default anymore for security.';

'>>10868527
Thanks, I honestly didn't expect to see it work in modern OS. Was it some unique quirk of the dev or it's a common thing for that era? How to spot this problem and is changing the virtual size of that section to its raw size a proper fix that will always work? If you read about it somewhere, are there other problems (and fixes) with old software available?';

'>>10868527
>Here's what I found so far
Thanks for sharing
>File permissions need to be set appropriately to allow the save files to be written because Windows does not allow this by default anymore for security.
I thought there was an auto-redirect to somewhere in %APPDATA% or %PROGRAMDATA% to be sure that programs that did this could still work on newer Windows';

'>>10846072
Been enjoying Prince of Persia and SimCity 1 on dosbox because it was supplied with my industrial software.
For some reason?';

'>>10869175
There is, but this application doesn't work with it. It's hardcoded to read save data from the program installation directory. When the write is redirected to another folder, the app still looks in the installation folder for the save.';

'>>10863056
NTA but that's for the Multiplayer Gold Edition, which has a different AI and soundtrack than the original Win3.x release.';

'>>10846072
Those games work fine on Linux under wine. Thank me later.';

'>>10870242
A lot of them don't.';

'>>10848339
EAX isn't all that bad. I thought it was a cool technology too for making sounds come from a metal room or room full of fabric. To pair with my Sound Blaster Live! Platinum, I got the matching Caimbridge Soundworks FPS2000 (four point surround), but now the sound from the speakers seem to fade in and out, and I have no idea how to repair that.

As for Aurreal Vortex, I too thought it was amazing and it did make Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament (99) sound so good. A shame there was no EAX equivalent in Q3 as A3D was the only special option in that game. I did hope Creative would have integrated those Aurreal technologies into their EAX libraries, as those games even sounded special.';

'>>10872162
God, even within an industry full of scumbag companies doing every dirty trick in the book to obtain a monopoly or the closest legal thing to it, Creative were a special sort of assholes.';

'>>10872301
The only thing I remember about Creative is them lying about some of their sound cards being 24 bit.';

'>>10872301
Did they actually use the A3D tech or simply discontinued it in favor of their inferior EAX? It would make sense to upgrade EAX with A3D tech in order to create a superior product. The wiki page seems to imply that somebody at Creative had a huge ego, couldn't accept the existence of a much better algorithm and did everything to make it disappear.
A "sound" business decision would be to use the tech of the company you acquired to improve your own product line. Instead, it seems as if someone had a personal vendetta against A3D for some reason. Sound autists do be like that.';

'https://github.com/x64dbg/x64dbg
randomly throwing a Windows debugger in here';

'>>10848339
I'm surprised there is no good software implementation of A3D yet. Alchemy Universal easily simulates EAX.';

'>>10857450
It sounds like at least half the file size is PCM audio. Just compress it with 7zip and you'll probably get acceptable results.';

'>>10862149
>>10857715
failing that you can just have a 32bit win10 installation and use regular ntvdm';