'*laughs in Dragon's Dogma*';

'what did we think of this?
i tried it briefly, dropped it hard because it seemed like such a generic CT ripoff. it got retardedly high ratings for some reason tho';

'>>3427127
Who makes lots of drpgs like Wizardry? I barely hear about the genre';

'A retarded janny made this thread.';

'>>3427127
Get a new job, you're just making the board worse.';

'>>3427127
Because westerners have nothing worth imitating. Japanese people do and that's why many indie devs want to be like them. JRPGs have: Good-looking and adorable art-style, fun yet easy to get into gameplay systems, memorable characters, cool and emotional stories, fantastical worlds where you can lost yourself, and many talented artists we're model figures for others.

Recently Mutsumi Inonata the artist for the Tale series passed away. She was mourned on /a/, /v/, /vg/ and even /here/. Because she left her fingerprint in her work, people recognized her as a main source of their joy. Meanwhile nobody knows western artists because most of them are faceless drones working for this or that corporation, without 0 distinctive work.
tl;dr Japanese has soul and westoids don't.';

'>>3427127
>Why do so many westerners try to make their own jrpgs but not the other way around?
Because westerners never made console-style RPGs and specifically no RPGs designed for 16 bit consoles targeting the age range where that type of game is most popular (roughly 8 to 15).

This yielded a popular and distinct formula for making a 2D RPG, featuring colorful aesthetics, character-driven storytelling and accessible turn-based combat. There's no WRPG equivalent to this formula, unless you want to count Dungeon Crawlers in which case Japanese definitely copied those from the west.';

'>>3427127
Because westaboo IPs do poorly in Japan generally (see SaGa)
Only mentally ill JP people want american slop';

'>>3427134
>what did we think of this?
I was just about to make a thread about SoS, but seeing this one, I will add my opinion here to avoid clutter

I am only up to visiting the tide caller who can see the future or whatever (probably like 1/4th to 1/3rd through the game) and while I find most the game is average, the writing is horrid.

There are many characters that will have a random line here and there that sounds like modern day tumblr speech (or would it be twitter/X speech now?). That terrible fat black pirate girl who constantly 4th wall breaks to talk about tropes. Jokes that make no sense in the time period/world (like the poor village girl saying someone at a cafe gave her a bigger coffee because she was doing her university finals)

Then there is how every. single. story. so far has made no narrative sense.
>mc's bemoan how they think Garl wont forgive them for some terrible thing they did
Turns out they did nothing wrong and it was rather Garl that convinced them to run into danger and decided to block with his eye instead of his arms.
>Normal people cant hurt dweller monsters
Except they can generate live mana, absorb it, boost themselves then attack just fine
>Moles turn a mountain into lullaby machine through enchantments and careful design in order to keep world ending dragon to sleep
They then proceed to purposefully give up all magic, meaning no one can maintain the enchantments that weaken over time, and become miners. As in they have spent generations digging away at the very cave network needed to keep the dragon asleep...
>First mole mage is born in a long time, is bullied until he literally almost destroys the world by waking up the dragon.
Garl instantly forgives him and lets him stay in the tunnels while trusting his bullies not to bully him anymore.
>Pirates of very dubious ability tell party to get on small rickety raft to cross the ocean
Party agrees instead of just instantly denying and looking for the owner of the large ship.';

'Because japanese pc gaming culture virtually does not exist, and when it did somewhat exist in the 80's it went about as far as Wizardry and similar MUDs. I don't know that Japan ever even really got DOS games. That's why JRPGs exist as a separate genre in the first place, Japs took Wizardy and the like and translated it into a simplified form that played well with home consoles.';

'>>3427504
>In ghost ship story, navigator wanted to quit so she could sing instead, captain starved the entire crew to death waiting for her to change her mind. They then stuck each other in a stale mate for hundreds of years waiting for one side to give in.
Not only could she have originally lied and said she would stay as a navigator to get everyone back to shore safely before quitting, but she also could have just been both navigator and musician. You know, like she immediately decides to do when she gives you the pirate ship. Making her years of resistance pointless. Not that just wanting to be a musician seems like something to starve an entire crew of your likely friends to death over.
>Dweller of woe has scared the townspeople to never leave as when someone tries, she controls them to go die, so the people lose all hope and give up.
Except the dweller can only control people within range of the island and only one person at a time. The townspeople could have left in a group at any time and only lost one or two people, instead of one person every week or so for years.
>two seniors betray your side because they want to live normal lives instead of endlessly battling more dwellers
Except that as far as anyone was aware, including the traitors, this was going to be the *last* dweller. So they would have had their normal lives, but instead chose to release more monsters and dwellers across the world... because that somehow fixes things?? They could have just finished this job and said they retire, no one could have stopped them and there wouldn't have been any of this world ending business going on. Because dwellers turn into world ending monsters when reaching peak of power... which the traitors already know about as well.

So whats their plan? "we will betray the world if you baddies leave us alone for a couple while so we can live without fighting and then you can kill us with the rest of the world :)" ??? completely braindead.';

'>>3427526
>old man is completely crushed emotionally that those two betrayed him to live a normal life
So his first act is to follow suit and completely give up fighting to live a normal life... what?

I am heavily considering dropping the game because of how bad the story is. If the gameplay was good instead of just mid then I might push through like I did with the Trails games, but it just isnt good enough.';

'>>3427127
What is Elden Cringe?
What is Dragon's Dogshit?
What is Final Fantasy VII Rebirth: Wild Cunt?';

'>>3427533
Definitely not rpgs';

'>>3427504
it sounds complete ass. i wish 4chan was solely in charge of videogame reviews from now on.';

'>>3427127
>Why do so many westerners try to make their own jrpgs but not the other way around?
One kind is vastly easier to design and implement than the other.';

'>>3427504
I don't get how this piece of shit got so much praise
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Stars#Accolades
just fucking look at that
are these fuckers paying for awards now? even if they are, why would this piece of shit be worth buying an award for?
they're not gonna make *that much* out of it are they?';

'>>3427127
the entire genre was birthed by japs just wanting to make their own Wizardry, you even mention it yourself.
The reason there are so many western jrpg knock offs is because the west's indie scene is massive compared to japans and a lot of indie devs are hacks who just blatantly try to ape nostalgic games.';

'>>3427952
they need to throw awards to indie games and this one is pretty progressive and had a lot of coverage. Don't think too hard about retarded nonsense like video game awards. It's about as stupid as caring about the oscars';

'>>3428317
>one is pretty progressive
i knew there was a reason
it's always the fucking kikes';

'>>3428317
also you're right about awards but honestly anon, i hope you understand my struggle as a working anon who has limited time to play good vidya and i actively *have to* weed out shitty games by looking at metacritic ratings and reading reviews and watching gameplay footage otherwise i'd probably never get through a single game in a year.';

'>>3427526
>Except that as far as anyone was aware, including the traitors, this was going to be the *last* dweller.
Agree with everything else, but this isn't why. They were told about the dweller that wipes people's memories by the hooded niggers and it was eventually going to destroy the world anyway since nobody had a shot at beating it, so they just said fuck it and took the hooded niggers' offer to move to another world. I assume you don't care enough about the plot to care about the spoiler
It's still retarded though';

'>>3427127
fromsoft games?
>>3427134
i don't know what ratings you're looking at: https://glitchwave.com/game/sea-of-stars/';

'>>3427127
>Why do so many westerners try to make their own jrpgs but not the other way around?
Do all the Wizardry clones in Japan not count as Western-inspired RPGs?';

'>>3428569
great site faggot';

'>>3428569
>ratings
Everyone refers to metacritic you retard';

'>>3428573
agreed
>>3428599
why would you do that? do you want to play bad games? seems like OP's problem was self-inflicted';

'>>3428572
What Wizardry clones?';

'>>3428573
whats the issue?
>>3428599
>retard
projection coming from a metacritic user. if you used glitchwave your confusion in >>3427134 would have been mysteriously avoided';

'>>3428573
Some of the top games are overrated imo.
Like Disco Elysium, its a good game, but it has no business being at the top, if thats the idea of the pinnacle of either RPGs or Games then i would've retired from this hobby.
Its too simple and barebones in many aspects to be at the top.

Bloodborne is not even the best at its own series but at least i can see it in the top 10.

Silent Hill 2 is circlejerked to the death, its not a bad game but its extremely flawed and people give it a special pass because muh symbolism

Mother 3 is not even better than Earthbound and has some jarring flaws as well, but somehow it has a cult following and many gamers dont bother to go out of their way to play it, so its ratings are inflated.

MGS3 is pretty good, i dont think so highly of it as well and i prefer the first two over the third, but since it has wide mainstream appeal and is well designed its more digestable to accept its placement.

Baldur's Gate 3
Same thing with MGS3 and Bloodborne, acceptable.

Dark Souls
also acceptable

The futher you go down the shitter it gets, you have games like Yakuza, Persona, Pathologic 2, and lots of mediocre visual novels occupying spots while actual well designed games are forgotten down below.

Its a site for hipster pretentious gamers who want to feel smart for playing video games, a phase i went through in my post teenager years. i understand the frustration of these hipsters they want to be accepted as art connoisseurs but when they grow up they will realize how stupid they were.';

'>>3427154
No one really, and the few that exist are mostly near 1:1 wizardry clones with waifu bait characters and I hate that I will still play them because the west doesn't even make shitty clones any more';

'>>3428573
do you really think the top 6 on metacritic are better';

'>>3428627
if you think the best rpgs of all time are disco commiesium, mother 3 and baldurs fucking gate 3 (not even counting the fromslop here as an 'rpg') you should not be allowed to post on this board
>>3428736
no
you know what a good solution is?
use none of them';

'>>3428685
>actual well designed games are forgotten down below.
such as? if they're not in the top 1000 they're probably shit
>>3428847
>if you think the best rpgs of all time are disco commiesium, mother 3 and baldurs fucking gate 3 (not even counting the fromslop here as an 'rpg') you should not be allowed to post on this board
they're all better than shattered lands or ultima vii or whatever it is you like. also bloodborne is an rpg, get over it
>use none of them
it's been infinitely more useful than listening to you contrarians';

'>>3428573
I just use it cause I already had a RateYourMusic account.';

'>>3427127
Westerners love to romanticize the idea of making a JRPG, but consistently demonstrate the same thing: that they have no fucking clue what makes "the classics" good in the first place.';

'>>3428915
>such as?
Hitman WOA
Chaos Theory
Dishonored
Age of Empires 2
Dead Space
Warcraft 3
Bioshock
Morrowind
A Hat in Time

And many more...';

'>>3428972
Those games are not progressive enough for bought journos';

'>>3428605
nta but there's really too many to name. You can check out any drpg, blobber, crawler thread when it comes up on here to see, I think there's one up right now with about 300 posts. There's really an endless stream of japanese wizardry clone crawlers coming out but they're all pretty crappy waifu bait games.';

'>wise mentor character
>its an old black guy with dreads';

'>>3428981
I wish old crawler had cute waifus instead of ugly ass niggas';

'>>3428986
Play Disgaea, or any NIS project with Takehito Harada's name attached to it for that matter, you won't be disappointed.';

'>>3427127
Dragon's Dogma and the Souls series are cases of this. The Souls series had its start as a competitor to Oblivion with how Sony commissioned it.';

'>>3427194
>Because westerners have nothing worth imitating.
Japanese people have never created anything by themselves.';

'>>3428685
Based for shitting on Yakuza but cringe for being an obvious From fanboy.';

'>>3428972
all of those are in the top 1000, many of them quite high, idk what your problem is
the top 1000 (which is as far as the chart goes) are basically the "glitchwave recommended", games outside of that are shit, this criteria has never failed me. see >>3428569';

'Jrpgs are already the rip off. Its simple as that. So they dont need to make another one. Bug people, especially japanese bug people, made a theme park of western society in bug people flavor from their own. This includes vidya. And this makes weebs so pathetic because they are rip offs of the rip off in general.';

'>>3428605
Entire DRPG subgenre or whatever you want to call it.';

'>>3427127
Because Japan doesn't look at tabletop as source of their RPGs. Which is weird because tabletop RPGs do exist in Japan, and I don't mean just those translated ones, but as far as video games go the idea was never to emulate tabletop.';

'>>3429149
Souls series is not western inspired except in Euopean weaponry.';

'>>3427194
lmao. everything that japs make save for their own cultural aesthetics were stolen from the west. souls series is pretty much sloppified western flanderization. anime copied disney. why are you weaboos so fucking retarded?';

'>>3429317
>Miyazaki literally admits that the main source of inspiration for Souls games comes from reading western fantasy literature when he was younger
stfu';

'>>3429399
That's just the aesthetic';

'>>3429405
>moving the goalpost this quickly';

'>>3429406
>if bg2 was set in kara-tur it would be a jrpg';

'>>3429409
>babble';

'>>3429399
>developer interview
Always the stupid ones quoting devs';

'>>3429406
No goalposts have moved you never understood in the first place.';

'>>3427127
Dark Souls';

'>>3430303
wrong';

'>>3427127
Because the majority of westerners grow up playing jrpgs and not wrpgs';

'>>3432329
Because that was worth the bump.';

'>>3432339
He's right though';

'>High fiving yourself
Pathetic.';

'>>3432719
The content of the post was for the other anon, only the bump was for you. He compressed what I wrote much earlier in the thread into a single sentence. Western RPG developers during the early 90s did a very poor job cultivating interest in the genre.';

'>>3427194
>>3428315
>>3429247
>>3432329
I have noticed that generally, the best stuff that comes from the west gets chewed up really quickly and tossed to the side.
>I consume any sort of western comics, animation or even games less often than a blue moon
>every once in a while I will stumble upon something I really like
>something with exceptional quality
>Gets surprised literally nobody talks about it
>I will look for the director, artist or developer to see if they have more or where they are now
>almost always they were just chewed up, got their work dissed, went bankrupt after not too long, and their most popular work is generally the first and last thing they did with some exceptions
Works like Fire and Ice, Aeon Flux, Hellboy, or when talking about videogames: Planescape, Anachronox, Troika games stuff...
hell, even Matrix, literally everything the Wachowskis did after Matrix gets trashed like it is the end of the world. Fun and inspired works that are treated like a joke.

Do western entertainment industries in general try on purpose to screw over the most talented artists?
Why do they do this?
How come nothing ever gets build up on and improved over time?
When you look at old "open blobber" CRPGs like late 90s Might and Magic you can clearly see that, while the graphics were weird and there were plenty of flaws, the gameplay mostly worked and had potential... potential that could have been build on more and more like the east did with their games.
Most 60s and 70s works from Japan look like garbage, but they build on one another and pushed each other forward.
Why does nothing gets built on? why are good artists and developers shun? Is this a cultural problem? a problem with the structure of the industry?
Maybe I don't get something about it, but it just feels like anything good that I've found got trampled and nipped in the bud.';

'>>3434238
In Japan old generations teach new generations to follow their footsteps. That's why anime and manga are so great; it's the result of years of refinement.
In the West, it's all about "owning le chuds" "sticking up to the patriarchy" "subversion" and keeping young generation down so they don't steal your spot.';

'>>3434238
jews';

'>>3427127
Japs can't into RPGs.
The closer is with mega westaboos like with SMT.';

'>>3427127
There's a significant JRPG playerbase in the west, while Japanese interest in WRPGs ended with Wizardry 5 and Phantasie series.';

'>>3434238
There are cultural differences, yes, but it's not everything across the board in all categories. You just happen to have niche interests where Japanese and Western environments are more obviously different. (RPGs and Comic books)
>Do western entertainment industries in general try on purpose to screw over the most talented artists?
No, I don't think so. There's obviously corporate incompetence everywhere but there's plenty of successful, long-running and reasonably conservative franchises when you look at the big picture.
- Madden NFL
- The Sims
- Warcraft (victim of its own success with WoW, though)
- Call of Duty
- Grand Theft Auto
- Assassin's Creed

> Is this a cultural problem?
There are a few cultural things I think. Mainly:
1. Stronger attitude favoring risk-taking and innovation (especially in the USA).
2. Academia infested with postmodernism and aloof obsession with novelty and subversions.
3. Videogames being relatively less prominent than other industries (for creatives, most notably Hollywood and TV/Cinema)

The first mindset is a double-edged sword, people more likely to shoot for the moon and either succeed or fail spectacularly with less middle ground.
The second leads to education failures, where creatives don't receive sufficiently thorough training in traditional skills and techniques, which are viewed as constraining, outmoded, inauthentic, patriarchal, and so on.
Third just means that videogames get second pick of many top creatives.

>a problem with the structure of the industry?
Not really, I don't think. Look into the histories of each of those companies and you'll find they all failed for different reasons.';

'>>3434575
All the western games you mentioned have degenerated greatly over time.';

'3433524
Didn't ask.';

'>>3434590
And Final Fantasy hasn't?';

'>>3434597
Glad you are enjoying the thread and keep coming back to contribute.';

'Didn't ask.';

'Is this one any good?';

'>>3427127
This art style is abhorrent.';

'western rpgs are gay talking simulators. japanese rpgs are action adventure games. you are homosexuals';

'>>3428539
>spoiler
are you talking about the one they revive using the blood moon that is supposed to be unstoppable unless you have over 30 celestial warriors? in which case if they didn't betray then it wouldn't exist.

or is it another one that is already around? if so, why didn't they tell anyone and just decided to secretly bail by themselves while fucking over the whole world even harder than it already was?

not only that, but why trust the hooded terrorists? seems far fetched to know about a dweller that should be impossible to know about since it wipes memories, having a way to transport people to another world and also that the world is habitable to the traitors at all. These are people who want the world to end, why would they have a perfectly fine second world in their back pocket to let the people who are their only threat to live in peacefully?';

'>>3427127
Japan did it, jrpgs are based on western rpgs from DOS and shit.';

'>>3434747
I liked it, felt like a solid B-tier from 1995 it so. Writing got the job done, didn't get it over its skis, characters were charming, gameplay was a nice mix of options and set growth. It's nothing special, but would probably be remembered by a small-yet-dedicated fan base if it had been released in 95.';

'>>3432424
He's not.';

'>>3434986
Yes he is. Unless maybe you want to nitpick the term 'majority' like a fussy faggot. But the truth is that a lot more westerners old enough to make videogames played jrpgs and not wrpgs. More millenials old enougj to make indie games grew up playing final fantasy, chrono trigger and breath of fire than wizardy, M&M, and elder scrolls.';

'>>3427127
Because no one outside of USA (and maybe Canada) likes to play tabletop. Most if not all western rpgs are crpgs based on dnd. In Japan itself they have different concept of what an rpg is, and if you tell anyone about tablettop, dnd etc they will cringe.';

'>>3435130
Real nice of you to bumb this Anon, now why don't you tell class all about the RPGs you like?

For me its the FM Towns version of Wizardry V';

'>>3435148
>try hard tard has shit taste
Holy kek';

'>>3435148
>replying to a sage'd post doesn't bump the thread
That's pretty nice actually
>What kind of retard says "the FM Towns version of Wizardry V", it's the worst version of the game.
Yes its wireframe and mostly a port of the basic versions but the music is absolutely incredible, its so grand and epic.
https://youtu.be/D8N1JE7644k';

'>>3434238
Unironically this >>3434388
https://archive.is/1N0IQ';

'>>3435148
>replying to a sage'd post doesn't bump the thread either?
In your dreams maybe (and mine), you doughnut.';

'/vrpg/ has such high quality moderation!
Such high quality threads like >>3419978 up for 14 days when a meta thread was just deleted! And even leaving up the 2 YIIK threads with low quality necrobumps before they hit the archive!
Such an amazing board. :)';

'>>3435338
Mods on this board are fairly lazy but this is a really bizarre thread to pick for this bitchfest.';

'>>3435391
>but this is a really bizarre thread to pick for this bitchfest.
It's on-brand with the board's sporadic quality.';

'>>3435116
More people played Skyrim and Oblivion than any of them and more people know about TES.';

'>>3435471
Not them and I agree but there is a significant difference between the release date of chrono trigger and Oblivion.

More like 90's kids grew up mostly playing jrpgs and 00's kids did at least play Bethesda games';

'Why the (((false dichotomy)))? I grew up playing Fallout and Baldur's Gate, and the SNES and PSX era Squaresoft stuff, Deus Ex, JA2, Arx Fatalis, Morrowind, etc. Games back then weren't so niche and most people played multiple genres of games, there wasn't the hyper-specific genre tribalism where people only played one single developer of a sub-genre of a single genre. You could play RPGs, and strategy, and FPS, and simulations, and so on.';

'>>3435471
The guy who conceived Sea of Stars graduated Game Dev school in 2007 and is probably in his late 30s now, meaning he was probably 8-10 years old when he played Chrono Trigger (which is cited as influence, along with Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario).
>>3435544
>I grew up
Anecdotes whatever, yeah I played those games too.
>there wasn't the hyper-specific genre tribalism
This is true however there was much starker divide between computers and consoles and between the two, consoles were far more common among kids.';

'>>3435544
I think when It comes to retro games, the perception is clearly skewed towards jrpgs. In modern ones, especially post-ps3, wrpgs, though Skyrim and Fallout especially grow more mainstream. That is where the difference comes from.
When people ARE trying to create RPGs that mimmick old games, they end up replicating jrpgs because that was the mainstream at the time.
The dichotomy exists because It is very real when It comes to the collective memory surrounding old RPGs.';

'>>3435593
>however there was much starker divide between computers and consoles and between the two, consoles were far more common among kids.
True. In the 90s, a decent PC was thousands of dollars, generally the domain of middle-class white kids with one or more technologically-inclined parent.
>The dichotomy exists because It is very real when It comes to the collective memory surrounding old RPGs.
I don't dispute that there's a dichotomy between PC and console RPGs (until the lines got blurred in the mid 2000s, when we started to get console-focused games that were merely ported to PC), I just think that it's a false dichotomy to say that people only played or liked one or the other. I am guessing that your taste leans towards the JRPG side of the spectrum. There's plenty of nostalgia-bait and retro appeal for 90s PC RPGs as well.';

'>>3435602
Though there is plenty of 90s PC nostalgic games, I dont think they are as iconic among mainstream audiencies as games such as Ff6 and Chrono trigger are.
I dont lean much towards JRPG nowadays, but before my late teens I had never played a single RPG on PC. SNES and PS1 JRPGs were all that I knew really.';

'>>3427194
>JRPGs
Was inspired by western table top. Was pretty sure it's a common lore on this board, so I assume you are just bating.
What's even the point of this EAST vs WEST garbage?';

'>>3427127
Most western RPGs didn't see Japanese releases and since the Japanese can't speak English they don't even know they exist. Also, western RPGs tend to be pretty text heavy, so even those who know a bit of English will struggle. Only a handful of nerds in Japan play western RPGs.';

'>>3435602
The thing that was missing during that timeframe was any western devoper even attempting to make a game in the same style as the 2D, 16-bit JRPG. When Street Fighter hit big, franchises like Mortal Kombat and many other clones followed. For JRPGs your options were mostly untranslated Japanese games.

So this left a desire among people in that demographic to fill that perceived gap. Even if it's on an indie budget';

'Sea of Stars is not good';

'>>3435597
Jrpgs were lower budget and could be done easier by one person pumping out turn based combat slop. Western RPGs (the recent ones) are jobs programs to make people who call adding armour to an NPC enemy a different design.';

'>>3435848
>slop
kinda like how you churn out low-effort posts parroting meme words trying hard to fit in.
JRPGs weren't low budget in the 90s. They generally had much bigger budgets than western RPGs. It's just that as time progressed, the "2D console RPG" formula became more accessible to solo developers while larger companies largely abandoned it.';

'>>3435881
cuck';

'>>3435881
> the "2D console RPG" formula became more accessible to solo developers while larger companies largely abandoned it.
Thank you for reiterating my point while acting like a /pol/tard. Really helps me feel at home.';

'>>3435885
Mentally ill retard trying to drive drama. Pay it no attention, it isn't even human.';

'>>3435848
Were or are? Nowadays I think they are easier to mimmick, though good spritework still requires effort.
But were they not iconic and beloved, people wouldnt waste their time trying to replicate them.';

'>>3427127
Westerners made that and it was worse than 99% of true Japanese jrpgs, and full of globohomo pandering why would japs copy the west when their games are worse than ever?';

'>>3429393
The west industry used to lead but that's the key word used to right now it's full of talentless hacktivists with no taste that only serve as a vehicle for propaganda.Japs have done enough work by now to differentiate themselves from disney and wizardry';

'>>3427127
>japs
>playing or making rpg games with customization, realism, lore, choices and consequences';

'>>3427194
jrpgs are the biggest shovelware 0 IQ slop ever';

'>>3434238
Long answer is those works were insufficiently marketed because they came from upstarts who weren't connected or didn't kiss the ring or didn't paneer to the propaganda de jure.
Short answer is Jews.';

'>>3434665
Final Fantasy has 16+ entries.
The games you mentioned were already bad for their 3rd or 4th entry at best.
Japs have a different mentality from Westoids. In Japan old artist pass their knowledge to new ones. In the West the only thing old farts do is destroy their own work.';

'>>3436183
Is that why FF hasn't been good in the last 20 years?';

'>>3436191
>Is that why FF hasn't been good in the last 20 years?
I mean, hell, I even like the series, or at least used to, and this is largely accurate';

'>>3436191
In the last 20 years Final Fantasy has lost all its original creators. You're just proving my point.';

'>>3435652
To distract from the fact that the games market is dogshit both in the East and West.';

'>>3436245
>To distract from the fact that the games market is dogshit both in the East and West.
Wisdom.';

'>>3435886
No your point was wrong and got corrected. Now you are seething about it and babbling about /pol/ for some reason.
>>3436183
>The games you mentioned were already bad for their 3rd or 4th entry at best.
Simply wrong.
> In Japan old artist pass their knowledge to new ones.
Not on Final Fantasy, clearly.
>>3436228
>You're just proving my point.
The point that's clear as dogshit?
Why don't you go back and read >>3434575 again, and if you have a genuine point to make, post a complete thought and not just a half-baked, incompetent snipe.';

'>>3436228
>In Japan old artist pass their knowledge to new ones.
You said this, so why couldn't the new devs improve upon the old formula?';

'>>3436228
Final Fantasy is a series where they try to make every game drastically different just for the sake of it.

The DQ approach is better';

'>>3436346
The old jrpg formula relied on abusing the inherent limitations of the hardware at the time, limitations which were removed at the turn of the century.
Sprite art, 4 niggas in a row, 3d models on a hand painted canvas, and other techniques were rendered obsolete as computers could render both 3d environments and models at the same time with compute to spare.
Talented developers moved on to more advanced projects while the ones lacking left the industry one way or another.';

'>>3436770
So why couldn't they just transition to the new era?';

'>>3437109
There were certainly developers who tried, final fantasy x and golden sun are examples of that.
But it was clear to most that the age of old jrpgs was over despite the massive success of the aforementioned games.

Final fantasy xi was made into a mmorpg and square enix wouldn't release another mainline entry until five years after their previous one, shaking up the old jrpg formula in the process. Something that was divisive at the time.
Square then tried to refine the new formula shortly thereafter with ffxiii which was even more divisive than the previous entry, often joked about as final hallway xiii.
The series wouldn't see another mainline jrpg entry until seven years later (which was somehow worse than xiii) as square focused on making another final fantasy mmorpg.

Camelot, already being giants in the jrpg sphere before the release of golden sun, had resigned themselves to making mario sports games for nintendo while waiting for an opportunity to make another jrpg presented itself.
The opportunity to make a sequel to the golden sun games finally came almost 10 years after the first two were released and they promptly tried to implement the old formula with updated graphics.
Despite being one of the most anticipated games of the year it was an abject failure and landed them on nintento's shitlist where they have stayed ever since.

>tl;dr
As my previous post stated, old jrpgs relied on abusing hardware limitations to give the illusion that the game was larger and more graphically impressive than it was.
Once those restrictions were lifted developers had to reinvent the formula and still only found limited success, while the developers who stuck to the old ways would crash and burn.';

'>>3435843
Why does every indie game have to have these “clever” lines shoved in, it’s so so overdone';

'>>3438412
Writers are too insecure to write anything in earnest, so much like in Marvel/Capeshit, they put """funny""" ironic lines everywhere to remind the audience that they're totally being ironic and not to take their shit seriously.
Which in turn devalues the rest of the script. Especially if the script is actual garbage that no one would want to be accused of writing in earnest.';

'So glad a janny defended the existence of this thread. What compelling discussion this is.';

'>>3438429
Not sure who moderates this board, but the short tempered, harsh intolerants over petty rule breaks and passive-aggressiveness makes me lean towards is Yournamehere.';

'>>3427285
SaGa does very well though';

'>>3429239
Because you're a casual with shit taste. According to glitchwave, some of the best RPGs are chrono trigger, fucking mother 3 and ff7 rebirth (not even an rpg).
The fact that you even need a rating site says everything about you. Just look up the gameplay, read some threads about it and then decide if you want to play it. That certainly never failed me and I can assure you, I've been gaming before you were even alive.';

'>>3428915
Shattered Lands is mediocre and Ultima VII isn't even an RPG, far too much simulation instead of abstraction. For the record, you're retarded for even comparing it to games from entirely different generations. Anyone with a bit of sanity realizes you can only compare it to contemporary products';

'>>3435148
>Deus Ex
Immersive Sim, not an RPG. Kys pseud';

'>>3429254
The source of jrpg is Wizardry and ultima. But most of the fags on this board don't know that.';

'>>3435122
Come to Finland and say some retarded shit like that. More TRPG players in one village than many American cities.';

'>>3439237
>Using reddit/youtuber terms like Immersive Sim
>Calls other a pseud';

'>>3435130
>>3435148
based and lilurapilled';

'>>3439809
He is right though';

'>>3436100
>customization
There is plenty
>realism
Realism is for retards that hate fun
>lore
Depends what you mean by lore
>Choices and consequences
Japs do it better, in wrpgs you can be evil or good but you will always have the same final boss and ending it's that you cam be an asshole in some sodequest if you want, meanwhile japanese have different endings depending on your choices';

'>>3442377
You still haven't told us from what third world shithole you're from, jarpigger.';

'>>3439809
>Using reddit/youtuber terms like Immersive Sim
you fucking retard they said that in PC gamer in 1999. stupid fucking nigger do not speak about Deus Ex.';

'>>3427130
So that's why it's bad';

'>>3442621
>using fag journo terms
Lol';

'>>3435843
>>3438412
>>3438421
this shit kills me, modern writers are utterly incapable of sincerity, it's the same way they live their lives and the reason they produce nothing but garbage';

'>>3444995
Ai should replace them already';

'>>3427127
Because orientals don't play crpgs and have shit taste in general. In case of japs specifically, they don't have much of an indie culture beyond comiket circles, which are too low scale to make proper rpgs. The most they can output is visual novels and rpgmaker slop.

CRPGs never really made it to east during their heydey because they couldn't afford the translation and asians had different preferences. Japan has been primarily a console and handheld market since the 90s and Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong were primarily a mmo/multiplayer pc cafe market. China and other asian countries were too poor and irrelevant for western devs. Nowadays thanks to steam some crpgs come out translated in eastern languages, so they're gaining some popularity there, but due to their aesthetic preferences I don't think they'll ever be as popular as jrpgs or mmos in the east. Plus bugmen don't like too much choice and options. They prefer a more streamlined experience.';

'>>3447455
the amount of actual computer rpgs made by chinks, gooks and nips can be counted on one hand. i'm not sure if they're any good since i haven't played them.
Prince of Qin, for example, looks like an actual CRPG and seems to be generally liked if you ignore technical issues.';

'>>3427127
You get that this is literally how DQ1, and thus the jrpg genre, started, right?';

'>>3447455
>don't play crpgs
>have shit taste
Pick one';

'>>3427127
Westerners who make JRPGs actually hate JRPGs at their core and are trying to make the gae they imagined in their head when they first saw a JRPG as kids.

The reason it doesn't happen the other way around is because the Japanese actually enjoy CRPGs';

'>>3450567
Nah westerners who make jrpgs are 90's plebbittors who only played chrono trigger, ff6 and secret of mana';

'>>3452135
Yes and the common thread of all those games is that they are extremely easy, and just let you play with combat gimmicks and watch the spectacle of fights. Western RPG fans dont actually care to engage with stat systems and combat strategies, they just want to play timed button press minigames and watch team-up attacks';

'wrpg bad
jrpg good';

'J"RPG"s are for consolefaggot subhumans. Let's just ignore the basics of what makes an RPG and look beyond that. So, you just bought Tales of Lolicon: The Mystery of the Legendary Alchemist Risty - The 3rd Chapter - XD UwUltimate Edition XX2 Re:Mastered. The first thing you notice is that you get a bunch of popups like in some shitty mobile game. Congratulations you unlocked DLC#82 and received another cheat item! If you aren't immediately repulsed by that, uninstall and leave a negative review you shouldn't even be considered a sentient being.

Also, Japs are so braindead and lazy they can't make any of their games work properly on PC yet weeaboo faggots still keep buying every pile of shit on Steam.';

'>>3453575

jrpg=shovelware
wrpg=jarpigger cope';

'>>3453779
Actually jrpg during the 90's were made by big companies while wrpgs by indie tier devs';

'>>3456892
Not really worth the bump.';

'>>3427127
There are heaps, dark souls being the biggest example. Japs also make Wizardry clones all the time. Arguably JRPGs are actually western RPGs. (Ulitma/Wizardry/ect)';

'>>3456927
How the fuck is darksouls a wrpg? It's not even a rpg';

'>>3456927
>>3456944
Read the fucking thread. >>3428685 >>3430303';

'>>3456896
Cope.';

'>>3456947
Still not a rpg, it's zelda for redditors';

'You must not have a lot going on in life if all you do is necrobump threads with low quality posts "for teh lolz xD" on this slow board.';

'>>3456892
Ok? They're still bottom-of-the-barrel dogshit "games" with 0 roleplaying.';

'>>3459708
>if there are no arbitrary skill check dialogue boxes there is no role playing';

'>>3460051
>jarpigger being disingenuous as usual';

'>>3427127
If you want a CRPG factory then you go to slavs for that.';

'>>3427127
PC Gaming wasn't a thing in Japan until very recently.';

'>>3461319
Apparently, MSX, NEC PC, Fujitsu FM Towns, Sharp X68000, and RPG Maker weren't a thing in Japan, huh.';

'>>3461319
lol. The entire JRPG genre exists because of Japanese computer nerds who got really into Wizardy';

'>>3427127
The writing in SoS was so shitty to the point where they could've merged Valere and Zale into one person, turned them into a mute protagonist and it would've been an instant improvement.
Or make Garl the protagonist since he somehow is more of a character, albeit still an annoying and not very good one.';

'>>3427127
tranny game! tranny game! We've got ourselves a tranny game boys!';

'>>3461422
The only somewhat satisfying arc for Garl is for him to die halfway and stay dead. Valere and Zale are boring I agree, but Garl being any more important than he already is would make the writing completely intolerable.';

'>>3461037
>only with a console ban could kids stomach crpgs
Funny';

'>>3464276
Consoles deserve getting banned.';

'Unironically, things like CRPGs or immersive sims are too complex for asians to play. Multiple western game releases in Japan had to have retarded special difficulty modes that are lower than the easiest settings to have the average player there not get confused/ragequit.

I wish I was joking. This is mainly a Japanese and Korean thing to be fair, the Chinese are somehow far more open to genres and varieties of game outside of JRPGslop that is functionally identical to products from the early 90's.';

'>>3427194
>Because westerners have nothing worth imitating
Wasn't the entirety of JRPGs kickstarted by Wizardry and Ultima?';

'>>3466049
>Wasn't the entirety of JRPGs kickstarted by Wizardry and Ultima?
Yes. It's pretty funny because Japs also use German, Latin and English words in their works all the time as well as Western mythology, especially Nordic stuff.';

'>>3465914
Except Asians are smarter than Americans';

'>>3427127
https://youtu.be/ddlxA7gi-G4?t=3166
>Just a bunch of plot edging.
>I don't want to goon to your plot, I want to coom!';

'>>3465914
You're right. The only Japs ever do right is art. A computer RPG will never be made in Japan.
Their localized games have built-in cheats. In Deus Ex the player dealt 4 times the damage, took 40% less damage, etc. When you've been around modding games you might have also noticed how nonchalant Japs are about adding overpowered cheat items/abilities..
Asians are also incapable of playing games in first person that aren't static pictures. You'll often see them complaining about 'motion sickness'.';

'>>3428325
Sucks cause SoS and Chained Echoes put so much effort into the art, unlike actual Japanese devs like Square, but they suck at designing gameplay and their stories are gay';

'>>3427127
Westerners are mentally ill.';

'>>3427127
Are you a retard? Japs are obsessed with making wizardry/ultima clones.';

'>>3466699
It ultimately ended up a 6.5/10 but the mid game was actually really good. The water tower dungeon was fantastic. Was very disappointed that the final dungeon was just a straight line with no puzzles.
>>3466980
Chained Echoes' art wasn't even good. The mecha combat system was fun but that is all. Everything else actively pissed me off, and I beat it. The biggest being when they lore drop that there is a continent sized parrot and never fucking show it.';

'>>3466985
sir, your foreskin is missing';

'>>3467010
OP already said that. They never evolved.';

'>>3427134
The game, as in, strictly gameplay, is really good, but the story and characters are super cringe. Such as shame really.';

'>>3467014
>Chained Echoes' art wasn't even good
The portraits look off, which is a pretty big thing to miss the mark with. Everything else in the game looks good/decent, but the creator should've gotten the portraits drawn by someone else for sure.';

'>>3428325
Wish these games didn't get the worst writers.
Stuff like Alter AILA Genesis and The Way are wonderful Western love letters to JRPGs. Though I suppose they were blessed with being developed before this decade.';

'>>3468612
blame greed. among free games, there are no bought reviews and paid shills. the reputation of good quality echos on forever.
rpg maker devs started to produce garbage once they saw dollar signs because now they couldn't just reuse assets and had to rely on overpaid "artists" or make everything themselves and burn themselves out. the beauty of "stolen assets" is that at worst it's filler for your actual vision and often goes unnoticed anyways, especially as a remix or palette swap. it was unacceptable to ask money for that. but in today's world you can trace over jrpg art, make a half-assed copy of an existing combat system and sell it on steam to subhumans. but sea of shills went the extra mile and made their characters ugly, fat, non-white which reeks of ESG money. the lack of typical 'heroic' beauty is always a huge red flag.
i don't know where the shitty writing comes from. it might be a symptom of losing interest and getting burned out or trying to shoot for some sort of mass appeal instead of, you know, just crafting your own story, no matter how offensive or weird because now you're beholden to some foreign entity and not the art itself. or it might be just sellouts and soulless assholes taking up game development as a job.

the monetization of indie games killed the scene. and it's coming for modding, too.';

'>>3469182
"Indie" is fucking dead.
"Hobbyist" is the current meta for independent, usually solo devs who aren't in it for the wrong reasons.
Though, I'm sure greed will come for that as well, before long.';

'>>3469182
>pic related
Damn
And the tan woman trace is actually a bit cute. Shame.';

'>>3467010
In the 80's yeah';