'>>3476812
Every single one of them is shit except for D2.';

'>>3476812
Grim Dawn
https://youtu.be/WAOpqSrMn7I?feature=shared';

'>>3476812
Diablo 2. Grim Yawn if that's not allowed.';

'Grim Dawn is the correct answer';

'Grim Dawn.
Its prototype, Titan Quest, was OK but play the original not the "remaster" and don't touch the expansions made after the original devs moved on.';

'>>3476812
Path of Exile';

'grim dawn
d2
poe
last epoch';

'>>3477324
The only thing GD and TQ share in common is TQ's engine.';

'How I miss it';

'1) Grim Dawn
2) Grim Dawn
3) Grim Dawn

Honourable mention: Grim Dawn';

'>>3476812
Diablo 1. I know everyone loves Diablo 2, and it is a good game but it also kind of ruined the genre forever, changing it from a real-time roguelike where you don't have to start over every time you die to some autistic shit where you grind for specific items to complete your build.';

'>>3476820
same';

'>>3478655
They definitely have different styles of gameplay. D1 is superior in atmosphere, as well.';

'>>3476812
LE isn't bad at all but endgame is a bit shallow. GD retains more depth over the whole title, with no actual end game to speak of once you kill the superbosses, and it is getting an expansion so GD keeps the crown even though it is on a dated and jankier engine when it comes to the actual action.

If you want just a co-op game, make an actual friend and drag them in GD, then into your freezer, is much more fun than LE's forced ladder and anonymous mmo-ish environment.';

'>>3476812
this one is decent, the build complexity is rewarding to experiment with and the only problem i have with it is the content being overly grindy and build improvements become too small and sparing during the late game, still its 1000x better than POE which has all the exact same problems but worse.

>>3476901
kill yourself if you like grim dawn, it's redditor basedboy version of d2 and the trash multiclassing autism ruins the skill build complexity (even though it seems like it should do the opposite) and the itemization is even worse than the skill building mechanics. the game is a perfect example of the audience being sold on an idea, rather than the actual product. "people" that like grim dawn could be sold on bathing in dust and dirt if it meant they were intellectually advanced for doing so.';

'>>3477556
this was peak arpg gaming. sadly zoomers were learning how to read and write during the peak of this game. any chances there is a private server or revival yet?';

'>>3479216
>the game is a perfect example of the audience being sold on an idea, rather than the actual product.
Too true m8. It should be telling that when you talk about ARPGs in general all the Grim Yawn faggots shut up because they have no idea what they are talking about, but when you mention Diablo all the faggots that were filtered by ACTUAL kino (Diablo 2) flock with their drivel about "spiritual successor" or whatever.

The game is for people who get their opinions off of reddit and youtube video essays, they don't play ARPGs. don't even trust their opinion if they say otherwise.

I've played every ARPG under the sun, and the "worst" ones, like Wolcen and WH40k are leagues better than Grim Yawn. It's just that Grim Yawn has an army of reddit fanboys that will defend the game on based on vapid reasoning, and they will defend the game fervently because rather than play ARPGs, they played Grim Yawn a few times, and spend the rest of their time circlejerking about it's superiority';

'>>3479220
>an imaginary man of straw, “people who got filtered by Diablo 2”
Lmao it was a game that thirteen year olds figured out, what is wrong with you?';

'>>3479218
>any chances there is a private server or revival yet?
Supposedly someone is working on something but right now he's only got it so you can putz around the hub without any enemies. I'd kill for a revival though.';

'>>3476812
Still D2. Well, if anyone here have extensive experience in D2:Resurrected, I'd be happy to read your case.

Recently clocked 200+ hours on LE. Game is shit past 100 hours as its endgame is still missing despite the 5-year EA. And fuck them those connection issues post-1.0. Skill engine is great for letting players play but that's just about it.

Waiting for PoE 2..';

'>>3476812
Diablo 2.';

'I wish there were more straight up gunz ones.
The Ascent is okay but the actual looting and RPG part isn't there and the rest of the game suffers for it since it's just a very simple isometric twin stick shooter with half baked elements from another genre tacked on.';

'I love Diablo 4 and excited for Season 4.';

'>>3476812
D1. LE. Grim dawn. In terms of D2 I feel it did some things better than 1 but many things worse. Median xl is fun too.';

'>>3479659
>excited for season 4
Why?
I'm seriously asking, I couldn't get past level 70 of release and season 1 as it became too samey and grindy.
I don't know if it is me or ARPGs letting me down, probably me.
I could run meph forever in D2 so IDK.';

'>>3479220
>>3479216
>we're so angry about a video game
>together
lol why do you circle jerkers feel a bit effeminate
Maybe make actual criticisms instead of spittle and buzzwords next time.';

'>>3480085
>I could run meph forever in D2 so IDK.
D2 had sovl, d3+ doesn’t
Alternately, you were 13 then, and now you’re not. Take your pick';

'>>3479216
>trash multiclassing autism ruins the skill build complexity (even though it seems like it should do the opposite)

It doesn't, although oathkeeper might be a bit overtuned compared to the rest, you can balance it out with your choice of constellations that play differently.
I had a lot of fun making frost ninja out of shaman/nightblade, warhammer 40k type rifleman out of oath/demo etc.
Death knight out of oath/necro


>and the itemization is even worse than the skill building mechanics.
It isn't, are you even building around monster uncommons etc.
Did you even craft out everything you needed?';

'>>3480085
- Items are reworked, instead of the past where you spent more time traveling back to town to salvage/sell your gear, less gear drops overall, but they are more meaningful
- NMDs are sadly still the primary method to level from 60-100, but it will be faster than before
- Obnoxious gathering materials of herbs will now drop a bundle when selecting rather than 1-type at a time
- Helltides are now available for all world tiers
- Helltide populations behave like Season 2 open world events. Meaning there is now a progression bar when capped you will be ambushed by wave of demons until a challenging elite appears that could potentially 1-shot you (if you don't know any better)
- Forgotten Souls are attainable outside of Helltide chests
- Overall faster channeling time for mundane actions like opening a chest
- Affix farming has been redone to doing a endgame crafting system which requires you to do their new content, The Pit
- The Pit is the only area where you can gather materials to upgrade your gear to it's best version. In this, you can choose what sort of affix/upgrades to propel in
- The Pit is not endgame content
- Uber drops will now have a chance to drop the moment you enter WT4 off any monsters instead of only Uber Duriel (and soon Andariel). That means you can get a Shako off a random monster at level 65; unlikely but it's possible.
- For Hardcore players, Death Elixir is now removed -- no more hand holding from Blizz so you better use those Scroll of Escapes aggressively.
TL;DR item rework, faster ways to level, more monsters populating your screen, but still NO ENDGAME CONTENT. It is still farming shitty uber Duriel and now Andariel. Do I recommend D4 to people who hate it as of today? No, do not play Season 4 and wait for expansion showcase. Do I recommend to people who enjoyed Season 2 and skipped 3? Yes.';

'>>3480111
Hmm thanks for the thorough answer anon, I appreciate the rundown.
What do you think about build variety now? One reason I kind of got bored is it started to get that D3 feeling to me where I was railroaded into one build by gear.

For example my weird ass builds:
Lighting monk sorc that just used a staff and that close range lightning which had a lot of melee range potential actually.

I wanted to do a melee blood necro, but the pet type just was leaps and bounds better based on that one item that fired tracking ghosts all day.

Niche build just didn't feel like they were going to get much support and unworkable vs. enhancing their small trees with more sets (not really sets due to the crafting but you know what I mean), getting you back to that D3 best in slot set or nothing feeling.

Did a shako even unlock enough stuff for me to really feel like a big power boost once I had that tracking pet necro rolling? No it did not, thus killing motivation as there just didn't feel like much exciting power gear to grind, and I couldn't go relevel my niche builds since they didn't seem to have a future. Therefore bottoming out at 70 on interest. I don't care for hardcore at all, never been that masochistic to want to lose months of planning and grinding due to something dumb.

Also the multiplayer is still non existent yes? Almost rather pick up classicclysm and find a new mythic guild or something.';

'>>3480125
>What do you think about build variety now?
I have only played Barb and Druid in D4, but there will always be one spec that beats the rest depending what you're doing. Still, when it comes to leveling I can see myself going summon build just to see how good the buffs were to companions. Apparently, Necros will all go summons because they absolutely flatten the map with their army. Still, I don't see why I wouldn't try leveling a Lightning Druid again for fun or do Upheavel/Deatblow Barb instead of WW/Hota or Charge Barb.
>One reason I kind of got bored is it started to get that D3 feeling to me where I was railroaded into one build by gear
It will basically come down to affixes that drop for you up to WT4. I think the one thing D4 has over D3 when leveling is you aren't completely fucked if you didn't get any good legs in D3. In D4 as long as you're set to do a certain build, you can do dungeons to unlock min stat affixes for some; not all are dungeon unlockable though.
>Also the multiplayer is still non existent?
It's a lot like D3 popularity first two months then it depletes with only people wanting to do uber farms or powerlevelers for their alts.

Diablo will always be the most casual, accessible because it knows exactly the sort of people that play it: boomers with families and only got 30 minutes to get away from their sexy wife. They literally have exp elixirs set to 30 minutes so I realize
>Time to start dinner, oh I got some time I'll pop another exp elixir
Personally, I do not see Diablo ever reaching the POE audience because it will alienate the mentioned casual audience above. The paragon board is a joke because everyone copies whatever streamers do, but maybe this itemization rework will add some depth to builds again. Maybe even setting up for the expansion by redoing the foundation?';

'>>3480098
>i had a lot of fun LARPing in my own head about class fantasy
you can do this in any game. Grim Dawn just gives you a bunch of square pegs that fit into various square holes, no complexity, no risk or reward. everything is the same shade of bland.

>did you even itemize?
yes i did, that's why i know it's garbage. PoE and Last Epoch are miles better in this regard

>>3479235
it's not a strawman, it's just a preemptive argument because i have seen Grim Dawn redditors circlejerk for over a decade about this piece of trash game, with 0 reasoning as to why it's actually good.

Grim Dawn is a perfect litmus test on if you have good or bad taste in video games, in fact it's indicative of your worldview as a whole. You are ruled by predisposition and ingroup-approval. You have no opinions of your own, it's all vapid drivel from the mind of a mentally stunted 3rd worlder.

>>3480093
i made my criticisms, now you produce an actual defense instead of being a faggot. hard sell, i know';

'>>3480182
>Grim Dawn is a perfect litmus test on if you have good or bad taste in video games, in fact it's indicative of your worldview as a whole. You are ruled by predisposition and ingroup-approval. You have no opinions of your own, it's all vapid drivel from the mind of a mentally stunted 3rd worlder.
Seek help immediately, anon.';

'>>3480212
nah i have superior taste and intellect. if anything GD faggots need help, but I won't take your retardation away from you. everyone has the right to be as retarded as they want :)';

'>>3476812
Warhammer - Chaosbanne';

'>>3480182
>no complexity
Bullshit
>, no risk or reward
The fuck does that even mean in ARPG? You sound like a schizo with a lot of buzz phrases about pegging and holes. Just pay a whore to strap one on for you if you truly like hardcore that much, same stupid masochism.
>Grim Dawn is a perfect litmus test on if you have good or bad taste in video games, in fact it's indicative of your worldview as a whole. You are ruled by predisposition and ingroup-approval.
oh yeah that mighty GD bandwagon where GD dominates the normiesphere, step off with your larping in your own head
>meanwhile the POE skinner box compels me to defend that piece of bloated crippleware shit
lmao, fucking please double queer, you're like a young senior citizen that gets angry if something is a little more imaginative than a slot machine POE pull. Almost every POE player is a clone spitting this angry rhetoric too because your leisure time must be a frustrating grind with no end. Kind of like you trying to get a woman off.';

'>>3480135
>>Time to start dinner, oh I got some time I'll pop another exp elixir
>Personally, I do not see Diablo ever reaching the POE audience because it will alienate the mentioned casual audience above. The paragon board is a joke because everyone copies whatever streamers do, but maybe this itemization rework will add some depth to builds again. Maybe even setting up for the expansion by redoing the foundation?
Fair enough, I'm done speculating on copium of games to improve anymore now though. They're either fun right now or they get shelved right now.
I might give it another whirl with a sorc "melee" build just to see what's possible now. He looked pretty cool with a lightning staff and effectiveness wasn't a joke.
I don't watch streamers at all but the boards definitely had one best path at least in the pet necro case. You play enough of these to be better than all the streamers and it's just self evident after a while.';

'Grim Dawn's dual-mastery system was weird. I always felt like my characters were much stronger if they focused points into one mastery.
The only exception being Demolitionist's Flame-touched and Vindictive Flame, which pair well with any class due giving such a huge boost to damage output and survivability.

For the most part, I think dual-classing is more of thematic thing. It's something you do if you want to make a certain type of character rather than the most powerful thing possible. My Death Knight (soldier+necromancer) was great fun, even if he didn't actually need any of the soldier skills.';

'Obviously poe but i also hate it. Then project diablo 2. Last epoch is fun. Been playing it all day actually. Just needs more time.';

'>>3479216
Nah GD is awesome, Titan Quest as well
We’re getting Fangs of Asterkarn at some point and TQ2

We eating good fellas';

'>>3481214
>Obviously poe
Game lacks a key ingredient, fun';

'>>3481524
>Game lacks a key ingredient, fun
Are all games abbreviated PoE this cursed?';

'>>3481572
>Piece of Excrement
Spooky ain't it';

'I get the dislike towards GD after reading through this thread, but why is POE the most mainstream ARPG of them all? Anywhere I go IRL or online, the average ARPG enjoyer mostly prefer playing POE above the rest. But here it seems the opposite, why? Is this simply room temperature IQ casual gamers who play POE are mere masochists or something?';

'>>3482174
>I get the dislike towards GD after reading through this thread
It’s just one anon with a hate boner, any threads about ARPGs end up with him sperging out about hating the game
>but why is POE the most mainstream ARPG of them all? Anywhere I go IRL or online, the average ARPG enjoyer mostly prefer playing POE above the rest.
D2 introduced the “grinding for rare loot” paradigm and then from D3 onwards you’d see big studios have psychologists on staff to maximize the addictive potential of making gambling sim/skinner boxes for obediently-trained gamers. It’s all dopamine hits, loot boxes, and microtransactions. Hurry up and grind through the actual game to get to the “endgame content” and such. You saw this already in the d2 era with cow level grinding and, later, Baal runs, but it’s been scientifically perfected now.';

'>>3482213
Makes sense, you never see anyone talk about their replays of D1 after all this time, but unanimously many agree it's atmospheric approach is flawless. D3 shat the bed with its cartoonish narrative, the awful dialogue of Azmodan reminding you he exists, and the featherweight of Malthael's impact on Sanctuary. I appreciate what D3 was going after, it was equivalent to going down the shounen-arc where you climb to the top literally saving High Heavens from the Burning Hells. But it was just all poorly executed. At least with D4, I think the storytelling is on point and holding Diablo off 1-2 expansions is the right decision long-term. I think to myself the level of impact Diablo will have when he finally arrives, but it all comes down to MS not axing their creative staff or another colorful ABC campaign.';

'>>3482213
There’s plenty of people that dislike PoE, it might be anecdotal but most I know that do are people who more dislike what they game has become. It’s too bloated and so many mechanics are in dire need of a touch up or just poorly explained.
I started back in Legion and have played on and off mostly for a couple weeks to a month the odd league on occasion. I think for me I bounced off the game after around 650 hours played because I realised there’s so much that I still didn’t understand about the game, certain niches about crafting and some endgame progression stuff. I got tired of the atlas loop and didn’t find the grind for new bosses and endgame to be interesting nor was I willing to put in hundreds more hours to learn those things.

I like GD, D2 because they have a nice level of depth and customisability to them while not feeling obtuse or hard to understand. There’s many RPGs out there that use dual classing and I can’t for the life of me think of an example where it’s not felt right, it’s just plug and play and pick the spells and abilities you like. PoE on the other hand often forces you into builds you don’t like to grind up or level into a swap. Sometimes the build you dream up is just too expensive to start so youve gotta play something else etc, stuff like that I never liked about PoE';

'>>3476820
modded D2 is pretty great.';

'>>3482174
it was the first big free ARPG so any broke thirdie can download and play it. that's about 90% of its popularity.';

'>>3483040
It's this desu. Once you get tired of the constant treadmill you move on to an actual game like d2.';

'>>3483138
I would imagine that the number of people who go from a modern ARPG back to an older game like D2 would be rather small, they’d think it was simple and primitive by comparison. I doubt many people still play D2 that didn’t grow up playing it when it was new. Hell I watched a guy I used to work with get filtered trying to go from 3 to 2';

'>>3483138
PoE was interesting early on, when you were an EXILE and you were tracking down the person who EXILED you, so you could fuck them up. Then everything else happened. I started playing not very long after the town in Act 3 (beta) was implemented but I lost interest hard after all the Vaal gem shit.';

'>>3482636
The reason PoE is shit is because it's a focus on the economy and trading, which is the worst part of ARPGs and why RMT sprang up. The main creator of PoE has a degree in finance and he obviously wanted to capitalize on using the psychology of ARPGs to spurn addictions in whales and money seeking/laundering amongst the 3rd world.';

'>>3483145
>Iron Maiden was removed from the chaos sanctuary
RIP 0 life whirling barb';

'>>3482174
>who play POE are mere masochists or something?
You got it on the very first guess, congrats.
Whomsoever doesn't understand GD is the real successor to D2 is a pond amoeba posing as a person.
It has a greatly detailed world, atmosphere is top notch with a lot of variety esp. counting the DLC, darker than D2 ever was in some parts and you just have a lot more room to play what you want with "D2.5" level mechanics and then constellations on top of the multiclass system in an extremely robust set of maps and bosses along with other modes than: Grind Mephisto.

The angrier a sperg is, the more likely they are to be a poser here and it is they who are the recent bandwagoners on skinner box rides like POE with that 3rd world anger underscoring their posts because they are poor.


>>3483155
This gentleman gets it, and I knew this about POE the instant I encountered crippleware and their shit crafting which is akin to korean grinders.
There are honest video games and there are psychological manipulation tactics, GD belongs to the former group.';

'>>3476812
PoE is decent but there's a lot going on, I haven't played the end-game just traverse through the campaign a few times. I still prefer D2 and I play it offline. no other ARPG has come close to d2 for me.

>>3478655
modern ARPGs are based largely on the design of Diablo 2 patch 1.10+, which released the same day Blizzard North closed. rumors are that it was largely developed by one straggling member of B.N. as most of the people had quit well before B.N. was officially closed.
you should try playing earlier patches with the cactus launcher. it's a very different game, playing vanilla on vanilla patches like 1.05b, and playing the expansion on 1.09b.

>>3479442
it's a very good remaster. but the game is changing as seasons go on because they keep tweaking skills and adding new items. I prefer legacy D2 these days, in offline.

>>3479798
you should also try older patches of D2 with cactus launcher.

>>3480085
the complete package of d4 is just mediocre. items have no meaning. there's no thought in your build. the gameplay is mediocre, monsters are spaced too far apart to feel good about tearing through the dungeon, and the arbitrary requirements on dungeon completion taking you out of the gameplay.

>>3480111
this still sounds mid, item drops being altered isn't the item rework the game needs. gameplay still the same floaty low impactful mess it was before I'm sure.

>>3482174
because they modernized and iterated on how people remember diablo 2, which is patch 1.10 onwards, as they were the longest standing patches and when ladders(seasons) were introduced. they also released after d3 and were regarded as the true successor to d2 after many people were disappointed by d3.

>>3483156
ahh, the good old days.';

'>>3483591
the big problem with games like d3, d4, poe, compared to d2, is when you get an upgrade in d2 it enables new content for you. when you get an upgrade in other games you get to run the same thing but with the number increased by 1.';

'I'm contemplating getting back into d4 with the loot changes in 3 days. I like a lot of the barbarian changes they did so far and the new patch looks even better. But then I get back into the game and every environment is muddy brown or dust yellow mixed in with swamp olive and that's it. All the enemies feel really samey too.

I never even made it to paragon points';

'>>3476812
Diablo 2

PoE, Diablo 1 and Grim Dawn are good.
You can have some fun with Last Epoch and Torchlight.

Rest is garbage.';

'>>3483155
>The reason PoE is shit is because it's a focus on the economy and trading, which is the worst part of ARPGs and why RMT sprang up. The main creator of PoE has a degree in finance and he obviously wanted to capitalize on using the psychology of ARPGs to spurn addictions in whales and money seeking/laundering amongst the 3rd world.
Maybe that's why I keep doing the game and the campaign up to mid tier maps is what I enjoy the most. Just pick any skill and theme and make it work ssf. Once the power upgrades stop coming either level a new character or wait till next league.

I do enjoy getting into heists though.';

'>>3484073
Yeah, if you like doing the same thing over and over, you'll enjoy PoE.';

'>>3484094
Arpgs in a nutshell. Story and exploration in grim dawn can only carry you so far. At least poe manages to have the best variety in the genre unless I'm missing some game like Victor Vran which I haven't played.';

'>>3484094
Isn't that the entire point of ARPGs? I legitimately believe at least Blizzard TRIED to put heavy emphasis on story for Diablo 4. I don't think I met anyone who outright called D4 story shit.
>exploration
Kek, for a game introducing open world, the exploration is ABSOLUTE SHIT. Open world was a fucking mistake and waste of time.';

'Diablos aren't RPGs. They are just dumbed down RTS.';

'>>3484171
>I don't think I met anyone who outright called D4 story shit.
Yeah, I do. It's mostly groanworthy at best with the retarded female lead, but the worst offense the story can do is get in the way of the gameplay which it does repeatedly. At least there's adventure mode, but then you realise the gameplay of d4 is nothing amazing either and you're wondering what you actually finished the story for.

For all the shit PoE does, the lore bits you find throughout the story are genuinely great and the labyrinth has the best voice acting out of all action rpgs.';

'>>3484171
D1/2 were created as roguelikes, so hardcore was the intended mode. with that said, those games were created with a start and an end in mind. poe took 1.10+ d2, and d3, and added end-game to it, something a few mods had tried to do as well for d2. the whole concept of end-game is what makes these games soulless.
some noteworthy things about d2 1.10+ include:
>respec
incentivize leveling builds that you'll change out of later, lack of character development and reduced immersion.
>pinnacle bosses
uber diablo, uber tristram. these aren't bad things. but they weren't added to single player so they were really just to fuel the economy of ladder realms.
>synergies
made builds more clearly defined, less player agency over spreading points to their playstyle. is it a coincidence that my favorite build is the bowzon (physical for pvp, or lightning fury / freezing arrow for pve) since it doesn't rely on synergies and can use both javelins and bows efficiently? the only class that actually uses weapon swap for something other than buffing?
>runewords to replace coop
call to arms replaces the need for a barbarian, enigma replaces the bonuses of a sorceress.
>mana potions on vendors
resource management is no longer a concern.';

'>>3484196
>the whole concept of end-game is what makes these games soulless
Even as a teenager, the irony of D2 classic "no one even plays the game anymore, they just grind the meme d1 reference cow level" and after the expansion "no one even plays the game anymore, they just grind Baal runs" wasn't lost on me';

'>>3484200
yeah they set an abnormally high max level that they never intended people to reach and only autistic people with life issues grinded that shit out. with online and trading and rushing people just get boosted through the game by a friend then get traded all the gear to play a build they wanted to play. hence we have level boosts and such in all the other games today.';

'>>3484177
I did not find Neyrelle offensive, the most awful writing in Diablo 4 is Taissa. There was a clear change in writers from Act 4 to 5 because her entire personality flips from being grateful of saving her life to "I ain't doing shit for you." There's also a part where depending which route you took, the other route would not realize you did something already (I don't remember). I think Neyrelle is fine, she's the representation of a new generation that knows nothing of the Eternal Conflict. She think she has the willpower to stop the endless cycle, but will fall victim like everyone else because the Wanderer was a little bitch placing the responsibility onto Neyrelle.

I'm not sure what you are referring to the story getting in the way of the gameplay? If you are referring to the cutscenes like Lilith visiting Donan, witnessing Lilith watch her "child" being eaten alive by wolves, etc. then well I have nothing to respond.';

'>>3483149
It does get pretty crazy when you start fighting ancient gods.
And annoying because of how the battles are designed.';

'>>3484224
>She think she has the willpower to stop the endless cycle
This is what happens when motherfuckers didn’t finish Diablo 1';

'>>3484196
>the whole concept of end-game is what makes these games soulless.
this, a thousand times this. a hamster wheel is not a game.';

'>>3484228
Neyrelle likely is aware of Aiden's attempt to contain Diablo's soulstone in himself given she is a scholar too and was in the Horadrim's clubhouse for most of the story. Whatever she has planned to stop Mephisto from returning is up to what little remains of Blizzard's creative team. I know they got the Witcher 3 guy still there, but I really believe the two guys that got axed for woke shit had a lot of vision for D4 long-term that is now lost.';

'>>3484236
>Aiden's
Literally who? Did they retcon some whole backstory to my boy Warrior now? I swore off Blizzard after D3 sucked.';

'>>3484196
Mein Neger, while I agree with your general sentiment, there's key points worth disagreeing with.

>respec
Respec was added in 1.13 compared to 1.10. A small difference in patch numbers, but people were playing on 1.10 talents for a whopping 7 years before getting the ability to respec. As such these things shouldn't be conflated even if your point is fair and valid. Even uber diablo came 2 years after patch 1.10

>synergies
This is the original feature of patch 1.10 which is also the patch which started the longer life cycle between patches and really cemented the balance diablo 2 lod was known for best in my opinion. Synergies made the game "feature complete " in my mind. Before synergies it was always a rush to the one high level skill you wanted to use for the rest of your game with maybe a side skill to avoid immunities. All the level 1 skills like firebolt, charged bolt, etc. we're best avoided and I would regularly end up as level 24 with 12+ skill points left over before I had actually something worthwhile to invest in. Synergies made the majority of skills actually useful, not as passive buffs, but even as main skills because later skills would buff them through synergies to the point of viability.

>mana potions on vendors
Non-issue, late game you'd always have enough, it solely helped to speed through early game which was very welcome at the point of time in the life of the game because anyone still playing had already leveled 20+ characters over and over again.';

'>>3484255
Yes, they retconned so the Warrior's name is Aidan (I mistyped). I think it's more the fact Blizzard made fans constantly throwing out what ended up happening to Rogue (Blood Raven) and Sorcerer (The Summoner). To add that depth rather than "what happened to the three that managed to slay Diablo?" Oh, they all went mad, just like D2's Paladin (Carthas) went insane in D4 when locking himself and two other paladins in that Host of Mephisto dungeon.

Sure, the retcon is almost like how Capcom retconned Ryu of Street Fighter who was originally this stoic fighter wanting to be the best and doing everything by the book, but then gets retconned in that he only beat Sagat for using Satsui no Hado. Personally, I like the additions they did to the original D1 cast, it's a grim fate for the three and tells how fragile, miniscule humanity is.';

'>>3484272
>how fragile, miniscule humanity is.
Whatever. Kicked Diablo's ass.';

'>>3484272
>fragile, miniscule humanity is
i always forget how masturbatory grimdark is';

'>>3484264
that's why I label it as 1.10+. but I did have my timelines slightly off as it's been a while since I looked at this stuff. 1.11 was the patch that released on blizzard north's official closure day. uber diablo and some of the new runewords were ladder features that launched with ladder which began in 1.10. many top dogs had left by 1.10 release in 2003 though.

>1.10
ladder, uber diablo, synergies, mana potions
>1.11
uber tristram, busted runewords, ladder specific items
>1.12
digital install support
>1.13
respec, removal of iron maiden
>1.14
backend work';

'>>3484160
Grim Dawn is a dense game, the acts alone will take you much longer than most arpgs. PoE is a race to maps because thats where the skinner box game is and the campaign is dogshit';

'D1
randomly generated dungeons give it a replay-ability that no other entry has';

'>>3477556
>>3479218
>>3479422
There is a discord server. Right now they are working on an emulator and basically reverse engineering the way the game worked. You can play around with all the heroes and their powers, but they're still working on the ai for combat.';

'>>3477556
why was this game better than d2, poe, or others? why did it flop?';

'all I've heard is good things about torchlight 1/2 but nobody mentions it in these threads?';

'>>3489062
Torchlight 1 is good, but it's not very deep. Play only on vh+hc, try to kill final boss then stop playing.
Torchlight 2 is not good. Even mods don't save it. You could try playing if you have free time, but it feels like a slog.';

'Playing the new loot patch in d4 is actually fun. You can easily get like 60% cooldown reduction and more in your build and it changes everything. Easily accessible shit like 300% increased damage for your build too and that's just early game at level 34.

I'm not saying the game is saved, but it certainly brought my fun back. Being able to skip the campaign is great too, I can just run around and blow up shit in a game that feels more modern than path of exile.

Btw poe2 when?';

'>>3489062
Very "mid", as the kids say.';

'>>3476812
Would have to be PoE, which I enjoyed for a couple years in the mid 2010s. I like GD, TQ, Torchlight 1/2, but I only got a couple playthroughs out of each of those whereas with D2 I tried every character multiple times.';

'>>3489062
They are too kiddy for the demographic on this site. They were kinda almost too kiddy for me. But Torchlight is a nice little Diablo style experience (gameplay-wise).
I remember being hyped for TL2, and being kinda vaguely disappointed with it, but years later I went back and decided I had underrated it. The enemy designs are really tight, and it has good music.
But I think the major downfall of both those games is lazy balancing of the skill trees. Their system just kind of doesn't work. It's restrictive.';