'You can play as the Ottomans in EU4.';

'>>3478989
no';

'>>3478989
Mask of the Betrayer is the main one I ever liked

Apocalypse is just a last minute retarded swerve into evil. There really should have been an early split where you abandon the childhood friend and never meet any of the JRPG allies and you get a completely alternative mechanic to the assist system the entire game.';

'>>3478989
Problem with "evil rpg" is that "evil people" are shalow and boring. Hell, even interesting villains more often than not have more admirable qualities than vile ones. If you are a backstabbing cunt only out for personal gain you will either go alone or with other backstabbing cunts who are only out for themselves. And that gets boring really quickly. It's petty office politics with swords.';

'>>3479031
Works great in MotB.

The problem in 99% of them is that you have some dramatic plot to save the world and being evil at the same time is retarded because an evil guy would just grab the party gold and leave. Sticking around is always utterly contrived.

But MotB has a dramatic personal goal. It has wider implications but they mean nothing to you for most of the game. It also has the pc being seriously wronged at the beginning, so a lot of your evil can look like vindication. And even at the level of day to day game mechanics there is a fantastic difference for an evil player.';

'>>3479041
>It also has the pc being seriously wronged at the beginning, so a lot of your evil can look like vindication.
That easilly slides into heroism but edgy. Commiting genocide on the local goblin population is heroic purely based on "they are dicks and smell bad" just like murdering a dragon to take away his gold is justified on "big dumb lizard eats cows".';

'>>3479025
that would've been cool but what's there is still pretty good for me considering the endgame of apocalypse is the main attraction. Also there are choices you can make that range from being a dick to not bothering to help people which does get referenced later on.
>>3479031
That's just your preference, I would rather be a vile backstabbing cunt than the generic hero. But there is always room for nuance on both sides and when I say "evil" I don't mean vile with no nuance either.';

'>>3479071
The thing is, compelling villain more often than not will "act good" anyway. He is going to fight other bad guys (they are on his turf), avert disasters (shit sucking doesn't benefit him) and so on. There are games where play as a mafia member: you are still one of the "less bad ones" or like in saints row entire thing is played for laughs.';

'>>3479067
It's not like that in MotB at least. Active vindictiveness is just a really good evil drive in a CRPG, it makes sense with the kind of things a CRPG can set up for you to do in a way that for example a drive for conquest and domination doesn't, because you're not going to suddenly be playing a 4X game where you begin your evil world conquest. Vindictiveness mostly means you go around killing people that fucked with you, which is perfect for a CRPG.';

'>>3479084
But is that really even "evil"? It's a basic revenge story. Hell, there are a plenty of RPG where your motivation is fucking with people that wronged you. Fallout 2 with the enclave or both baldurs gates. Seeking retribution is hardly a clearly evil act.';

'>>3479025
>Apocalypse is just a last minute retarded swerve into evil.
It's not so bad since there's a sort of obvious build up if you take all the selfish dialogue choices, it actually makes your party members seem rather stupid since there's 0 reasons to trust the OP anti-social guy with a bitter demon inside him.';

'>>3479092
All I can say is play MotB and you'll understand what I mean. You would never mistake what the MC does for a sympathetic revenge story.';

'>>3478989
Might and Magic 6 lets you destroy the world.
Might and Magic 7 lets you side with hell and help it conquer the world.
Might and Magic 8 lets you prevent extermination of devil army.
Each of those games also lets you kill random civilians.';

'>>3479025
Apocalypse gave a lot of good reasons to destroy the world, it's just executed poorly. The human cast keep spouting about friendship while the gods+Stephen try to have serious discussions about the nature of their universe.
Instead of abandoning Asahi, the only way to revive her should've been taking Dagda's side. Akira's whole arc in IV was about how he was never able to save his sister in any timeline, he never got to make a choice, he was swept along by the decisions of others. Apocalypse drops most of the themes to make a lazy feel-good plot.';

'>>3479848
its not really a feel good plot anymore by the end of anarchy though';

'>>3479848
Good point with asahi. She could just die earlier though
I still think a completely alternate system to the assist gauge obtained fairly early would have really helped with story-in-gameplay and also made it so people doing an edgy game won't have to click through anime love triangle writing';

'>>3479031
you're talking about like cartoonish chaotic evil for evil sakes types which is usually what RPG choices boil down to. there's never any nuance to it or anything which is a shame. i remember getting good boy points playing an evil wizard because i spared someone but that was a practical matter of them being useful to me, i didn't spare them to be a good person. but the game makes no distinction, most game morality systems don't.

picrel is a wonderful example of what i mean. this incarnation of the Master saved this guy, kept him alive and even helped him "save" a planet that was dying out (by accidentally turning them into cyborgs that resent their existence and resent him for changing them) all just because he found it personally amusing but also because the guy worked into his larger evil plan. if you listened to the story without really knowing the background of Doctor Who or the character you'd even think the Master is being this kindly wizard type character just helping out but he's a very twisted individual that loves toying with people purely for his own amusement.

i feel like part of the problem is black/white morality systems that permeate most RPGs, even BG3's D&D axis felt better to play around. but also trying to add more flavor to choices like

>Spare (Jedi Jesus helps everyone)
>Spare (not a goodie-two shoes but maybe a heart of gold deep down kind of thing)
>Spare (not a good aligned choice but this NPC might be useful)
>Don't help (Player can't due to alignment/religion)
>Don't help (Player is a coward)
>Don't help (Player is self-interested)
and so on';

'>>3478989
Tyranny is a flawed game, but it has by far the best evil roleplaying options of anything I've ever played. You play as a bronze age lieutenant charged with pacifying a recently conquered area, interacting with rebels, feuding generals, tribal savages, your extremely dangerous boss, and peasants just trying to survive. The evil feels true-to-life in a way that few other games have. People don't go around kicking puppies for fun, they just pick the most efficient route to their desired outcome, indifferent as to whether it causes human suffering. (There is only one character who's a partial exception to this, but he uses horror and intimidation as a way to keep people in line Vlad the Impaler style, which certainly has historical precedent). It's really a shame it'll never get a sequel.';

'>>3479041
The problem wth motb is the quest to replenish your soul by eating people has two hyper specific ways to progress it, when there's a perfectly good npc right next to the quest giver who you can't use cause shes part of a different quest
Its very gay and unrewarding

Most decent crpgs have evil options. Planescape, Fallout. Even PoE lets you sacrifice your party members in a magic pool for power';

'>>3479031
It's a novel experience as you rarely have the focus show the hero as the antagonistic force. Have the world rise up and (try to) be the heroes because you aren't going to save them but destroy them.';

'>>3478990';

'>>3478989
if you don't mind RPGMaker games, Black Souls and Seraphic Blue have great evil MC's. The latter is a really high effort game which you wouldn't know it was RPGMaker.';

'>>3486990
>The latter is a really high effort game which you wouldn't know it was RPGMaker
A great many are trapped on that wretched format.';

'>>3478989
for me its edgy/antisocial nanashi who's only weakness is his giant soft spot for asahi. He doesn't trust the others because he knows how quickly you can die in tokyo first hand, and he wants to prevent that from happening to asahi';

'>>3482604
Kuroinu did a better job at this than Tyranny. That is why it got a sequel since people want to play as a rapist overlord beating up pure innocent women fighting to stop you and turning them to cock addled sex slaves';

'>>3478989
>Baldur's Gate mainline entries (not Dark Alliance, although they are great games)
>Daggerfall/Morrowind
>Ultima Online/EverQuest';

'this game just takes inspiration from DnD';