'...out of all 5 I've played, 3 of which were Pokemon and 1 was Skyrim.';

'>>3479386
I can't fathom how people are able to enjoy this shit. I mean, just the characters themselves are disgusting. Look at the cover. Who the fuck wants to play a game where you have to interact with those obnoxious, hideous pieces of shit?';

'>>3479386
Same bro, although I'm not sure what this thread was made to discuss.';

'>>3479386

I'm playing it for the first time with mods removing the troons, the gays, and modern nonsense with romances.

I'm not literate enough in the genre (I only played the first Pillars and a bit of Kingsmaker) and have not advanced very far in the game to decide if it's still a slop garbage or redeemable with mods.

Combat system is fun tho. Playing on 'hard' difficulty.';

'>>3479395
The same kind of people who enjoy Dragon's Age and other post gamergate egalitarian sjw goyslop.';

'>>3479400
>I have barely played any games at all
>let me tell you about my politics
>I've also exclusively played the gayest games in the entire genre, but had to apply a mod to this one to remove content
>also I'm playing on journalist difficulty (tactician is actually normal, honor mode is the truly difficult mode)
People like you are why gatekeeping exists';

'>>3479404

k mister troon gatekeeper';

'>>3479404
>I've also exclusively played the gayest games in the entire genre
PF:KM is one of the best RPGs ever created.
Top 10 easily.';

'>>3479395
This is just D&D now and, perhaps, any fantasy media really.
Every character is a little snowflake with a quirky personality to go along. Your low level Mage? Yeah, he fucked a Goddess.
The rogue? He vampire gay sex
The Warlock? Hes a slave to the sexy devil baddie Devil sexy face
Retarded concepts can only lead to retarded outcomes.';

'>>3479445
No it isn't. Kingmaker is a terrible game. I have played hundreds of rpgs and I would rank owlcat games among the very bottom of them.';

'>>3479585

Would have been good if not for the kingdom management shit.';

'>>3479581
>This is just D&D now
Now? Retard, that was the case long before you were but a glint in jamal's eye. Third edition was infamously bloated with side material aimed at people who wanted to play super-special unique races and classes.';

'>>3479586
Nope. Everything about it is terrible.';

'>>3479589
How mainstream was DnD during its third editon days? How relevant of an influence was It on the paradigms of the fantasy genre?
And now?';

'I've been playing D&D for almost 15 years and then some, this game is alright, idk why everyone on this board is so mad at it, the "wokeness" of this shit isn't even a problem when you can just skip the sex (like irl) and kill everyone';

'>>3479400
>the troons
there are no troons in this game retard';

'>>3479594
Quite? People making games now were most likely introduced to it during third edition.';

'>>3479600
You don't understand. If I go to a truck stop bathroom there will be a cock sticking out of a gloryhole and i will be compelled to suck it again. We cannot live like this. We need to mod it out!';

'>>3479604';

'>>3479605
You know its not the same thing.
DnD was a niche hobby during 3rd edition time, now its the main trendsetter for fantasy tropes due to the popularity of 5th edition.
So what if some nerds that are now devs got introduced to It during 3rd edition days? 5th is what got really popular among the masses, and is now what sets the standard.';

'>>3479612
Its a troon? Man, It looks just like a real woman.
What did they even mean by making the troon such a freaky character?';

'>>3479619

Ok fine have this instead, she even says she was a man prior.';

'>>3479617
Are you fucking retarded? Fantasy used to be more niche, period. And for a while dnd was the grand king of that shit mountain. It was big enough that when japs went out to nick shit for emerging jrpg genre they just grabbed everything they could carry from it.';

'>>3479623
Keeping tradition alive!';

'>>3479612
>not important, don't remember it
>>3479623
>not important, don't remember it
if these are the infamous troons you speak about they seem unimportant and aren't worth my time';

'Apart from basic mechanics everything in this game is awful. Any ETA on modkit and if it allows for making campaigns/modules? I will suffer through 5e bullshit if at least someone competent will make plot and locations, and I hope they will unlock the day/night cycle from resting.';

'>>3479386
It would be if it were the only RPG you ever played.
>this is the BEST shit sandwich I've ever eaten!';

'>>3479624
Yeah, during the times of Wizardry, way before 3rd edition.';

'>>3479623
Im not the same anon youve been arguing with. I just wanted to make a little joke really.
Anyways, its bad, this game has terrible characters etc etc.';

'>>3479581
Every character is a little snowflake with a quirky personality to go along. Your main character? Yeah, he's immortal.
The cleric? She's a chaste succub.
The warior? Hes a floating horny skull.
Retarded concepts can only lead to retarded outcomes.';

'>>3479386
Thats cool. The best RPG i've played recently was Disco Elysium and I liked it a lot. Even as much as Baldurs gate 3';

'>>3479660
Shit settings were around even in the 90s
What exactly is your point?';

'>>3479678
Can you recommend a good RPG?';

'I can see why people like it, but damn do I hate the DnD milieu. Also, it'd be nice if the characters weren't all assholes. Like... there's complex characters, and then there's unpleasant characters, and these ones are almost all unpleasant.';

'>>3479710
Which one is so unpleasant?';

'>>3479710
Just play Gothic first, and then come back to this and all the BG3 characters will feel like literal angels';

'>>3479710
Gale, Karlach and Wyll are immediately friendly. Astarion is sketchy but mostly friendly after the initial meeting. Shadowheart and Lae'Zel are the only two unpleasant ones really.';

'>>3479771
Lae'Zel is extremly friendly for a githyanki.';

'>>3479771
It’s likely that people who played the early access vs people who only played the game after launch will have different opinions on the companions. Initially they were all edgy evil cunts (except MAYBE Gale was neutral) and players said they hated all of them and Larian went “uhhhhh we actually just frontloaded the game with the evil party members because it’s the only way to get players to playtest them for us, we promise there’s a full roster of good NPCs late in the game” and then promptly rewrote every single one, in particular completely changing Wylls backstory entirely.

Personally my opinions of all of them were soured due to this and I’ll never play with any of the origin chars for that reason, I don’t care what they did to them in terms of rewrites.';

'>>3479796
>except MAYBE Gale
ea gale creeped me out. i'm pretty sure he was supposed to be some sort of serial killer who had to murder magic users to feed the orb when artifacts weren't enough.';

'>>3479796
this is why early access is such a bad concept. vision gets diluted by people retarded enough to pay to bugtest.';

'>>3479815
>vision gets diluted by people retarded enough to pay to bugtest.
Agreed. I hated all the characters but stick to your original vision, have some integrity. Changing your vision pleases no one, it’s weak. I would’ve at least respected Larian for sticking to their guns, while still using a custom party anyway.

The games plot itself was
plagued by successive rewrites. The initial plot with Daisy was far more clever than the “Emperor” horse shit we got. People say “but the twist only works once if you don’t know it” but that’s equally true of the final version of the game, so.';

'>>3479697
Just one?
Elminage Original';

'>>3479386
Good Taste.
Me too, such a behemoth, a true modern masterpiece in a time where every slop gets praised as masterpiece this one actually delivered.';

'Honestly, I can understand if someone says “I liked bg3 and had fun playing it”, even if I may personally disagree with them, but when people use terms like “masterpiece” or “one of the greatest of all time” and so on, I can only conclude that they’re either 13 and haven’t played many games, or they’re being paid to lie on the internet';

'>>3479741
Setting of Gothic is a fucking prison, every single RPG has nicer people. Maybe some evil-oriented NWN modules have worse people in them.';

'>>3479386
A bit unreal to think that Baldur's Gate 3 would be made two decades later in 2023 and turn out to be great.';

'>>3479879
This. People need to learn it's okay to like shit things, hell, I love low/mid budget ARPGs as they have incredible amount of soul and fall apart at the reality verifying the vision and I don't defend them to death. I can understand why people would like BG3, as it has great presentation with voice actors doing amazing job and pretty good underlying systems like enviromental effects or verticality, but overall every other aspect was schizophrenic at best and completely fucked at worst. And, holy fuck, how can you ship a game where core mechanics like resting cause CTDs despite people reporting it year prior during EA.';

'>>3479879
Then your conclusions are shit and you are a dumbass.
1) Im 33
2) I played all the important and famous RPGs and CRPGs ever
3) Im not being paid by anybody';

'>>3479908
You need to learn that your opinion is not a fact.';

'>>3479879
It is one of the best of all time, demolishes literally every other game in the genre in terms of interactivity.';

'>>3479939
>It is one of the best of all time
WHAT? DELETE THIS OR IM GOING TO SPERG FOR THE NEXT 24 HOURS!!!';

'Baldur's Gate 3 haters when you mention literally any other RPG as your favorite';

'Baldur's Gate 3 haters when you mention that Baldur's Gate 3 is your favorite RPG';

'>>3479939
>demolishes literally every other game in the genre in terms of interactivity.
It’s an illusion that falls apart on your second playthrough, or even just reloading to replay a scene differently. And there’s tons of railroading where the DM forces the story to go exactly as planned.
>ignore Shadowheart? Nope she teleports to you because she has the macguffin and now you’re stuck with her
>kill the emperor? Nope, game over for you
>go down the road to attack the absolutes army? Nope, I’m teleporting you to safety!
>cross the bridge to pursue the brain? Nope, I’m teleporting you to safety!';

'>>3479939
Its one of the best whether retards agree or not doesn't matter.
The overall package at display is simply masterful.
Music, Presentation, voice acting, cutscenes, combat, world design, gameplay/interactibity, writing, reactivity, characters, side quests.
Game has it all, even if the game has moments where it fumbles here and there, the overall package makes up for it, you can count the CRPGs that come close on one hand.

Just because X game has 1 better aspect about it doesnt mean shit, this board sucks up games like VTMB and Arcanum and Morrowind, i love those games but they have sooo many flaws and problems within them, but despite that they ignore them for the overall package, retards are not arguing in good faith and are just trolling.';

'>>3479948
Example of bad faith posts.
I told you they gonna sperg. lmao';

'>>3479952
>writing
>characters
Lol, lmao. Stopped reading here.';

'>>3479955
Predictable post.
kys';

'>>3479948
>tons of railroading where the DM forces the story to go exactly as planned.
This is just another way of saying "the game has a story". Would you rather it was an open world sandbox? That's a completely different type of game';

'>>3479827
At this point I'm convinced that bg3 hate doesn't actualy come from /pol/ but from weebs. I'm sorry but your japshit sucks.';

'>>3479954
>”bad faith” is when someone has a different opinion than me and formed different conclusions than I did, because I am incapable of mentally separating my subjective opinions from objective reality
Yup, it’s /vrpg/ time';

'BG3, the Pathfinder games and dos1,2 are such disappointing games. i cannot understand why people like to play them and give them ratings beyond 90. the dialogues are bad, the companions awful, the story bleak and the combat system mostly build autism. and yet they dominate most lists of best rpgs.
older rpgs have their weaknesses but at least they had redeeming qualities.';

'>>3479967
No, bad faith is nitpicking things that exist in every other RPG and conforming to them as a legit comparison.
That illusion you speak of exists in every CRPG ever, BG2 has way less choices and freedom than 3. and same goes for lots of other RPGs like Icewind, Pathfinder, Solasa, Divinity Planescape, PoE, DAO, Shadowrun, KOTOR, VTMB and even Arcanum and Fallout which are come close but also has some level of restriction';

'>>3479966
Game compltely inspired by Wizardry, one of the most proeminent Dungeon crawl RPGs of the past, is simply labeled as "jap shit" by smartposter here.
You dont even have to tell me elder scrolls and fallout is all youve ever played.';

'>>3479977
Yeah and Disco Elysium i forgot about that game, it was being hailed as the ultimate story RPG and its also the same thing, 2nd playthrough and lots of choices lead to same path or lots of restrictions that you cant do because the devs need to progress the story.
Take your cope and shove it up your ass bro, i played my RPGs maybe find some retarded newfag to trick.';

'>>3479963
>This is just another way of saying "the game has a story". Would you rather it was an open world sandbox? That's a completely different type of game
I enumerated several examples that were extremely jarring to me during my playthrough, all of which broke my suspension of disbelief and my immersion, by nature of being extremely ham-fisted and clumsy railroading. If the game pretends to offer you a choice, but actually you're only allowed to choose exactly what the DM wants you to do, that's not a choice. That's "but thou must!"

So which is it, does the game have absolutely unprecedented levels of player choice and freedom and unparalleled reactivity that puts every other game in the genre to shame, or is the railroading a simple necessity due to the narrative structure and it's not their fault that you're stuck at a tabletop with a shitty DM who won't let you go off-script? Even fucking Morrowind in 2002 still let you kill crucial characters and then figure out a backdoor route to finishing the main quest, not just "lol game over bro".';

'>>3479966
>At this point I'm convinced that bg3 hate doesn't actualy come from /pol/ but from weebs
moeblob loves bg3';

'>>3479983
>Even fucking Morrowind in 2002 still let you kill crucial characters and then figure out a backdoor route to finishing the main quest, not just "lol game over bro".
See? this is why im calling you bad faith and disingenuous, the game lets you kill everyone, but if you kill the character protecting you then you get game over cause thats how its supposed to go.

To answer your question both are a must.
You can't have 100% freedom and at the same time have a story, that doesnt work. will never work and if you want it that way, then you are going to get a Minecraft.';

'>>3479977
So we go from
>>3479939
>It is one of the best of all time, demolishes literally every other game in the genre in terms of interactivity.
to
>>3479977
>No, bad faith is nitpicking things that exist in every other RPG and conforming to them as a legit comparison.
>That illusion you speak of exists in every CRPG ever, BG2 has way less choices and freedom than 3. and same goes for lots of other RPGs like Icewind, Pathfinder, Solasa, Divinity Planescape, PoE, DAO, Shadowrun, KOTOR, VTMB and even Arcanum and Fallout which are come close but also has some level of restriction
Both cannot be simultaneously true, which is my point. I don't think you understand what "arguing in bad faith" means, bro.';

'>>3479980
Never been much of an elder scrolls guy, always found dungein crawling somewhat boring. And yes, big fallout guy fan, played two first games like a dozen times. Your japshit is still faggy.';

'>>3479988
>but if you kill the character protecting you then you get game over cause thats how its supposed to go.
"But if you do [thing the plot doesn't expect you to do], then [you get railroaded], cause [the DM can't handle you going off script]"
Perhaps you are projecting your own bad faith argumentation onto me, anon? I'm simply disagreeing with you.';

'>>3479989
Maybe consider you are talking to 2 different anons?
And he didn't say its absolute freedom, he said compared to other RPGs the level of interactivity is super high, maybe consider he didn't play all games, but its a valid point to make since it sits at the top of the genre when it comes to that.
Game is highly interactive, you can interact with the world in multiple various ways and reactivity is there at 90% of the time, you can use spells outside of combat to solve different quests, thats not every RPG.';

'>>3479991
Do you even know why you get a game over?';

'>>3479983
That's what a good dm does. He prepares a campaign in such a way that you feel like you can take any path but they all will lead where he needs you to be sooner or later. You are ever going to play it once so the ilusion remains in place.';

'>>3479983
All the examples you listed are things that would have killed you. You're complaining that "I couldn't kill myself in the way I wanted". There are lots of other ways your character can commit suicide. Pretty funny that the only avenue of complaint for you are "limited amount of ways you can kill yourself" in a game that has no limits on the npc's you can kill';

'>>3479992
>Maybe consider you are talking to 2 different anons?
Sure. I simply meant in terms of the chain of arguments being presented.
>Game is highly interactive, you can interact with the world in multiple various ways and reactivity is there at 90% of the time
I pointed out why I disagreed. I said that your first playthrough the game does a good job of presenting this illusion, but it falls apart on replays or even reloads of the same scene. You often have a choice of
>Yes
>Yes, but greedy
>Yes, but rude
>[RACE] Yes, because I am [RACE]
>[PALADIN] Yes, by my oath
and so on. You'll get one line of flavor dialogue and then right back to the same path.
I also pointed out several examples of heavy railroading in the plot that I found to be very immersion-breaking during my playthrough, to the point that it was actually worse than the genre average, and certainly not 'the best ever, putting everything else to shame'.';

'>>3479993
>Do you even know why you get a game over?
Yes, because of railroading.
muh tadpole, muh astral prism MacGuffin, muh Emperor, muh Orpheus, muh Netherbrain. It's all fucking stupid and it serves simply as a pretext for the railroading
>>3479995
>That's what a good dm does. He prepares a campaign in such a way that you feel like you can take any path but they all will lead where he needs you to be sooner or later.
I will admit that this is a fundamental issue of translating a tabletop campaign to a linear cRPG.
>>3479996
>All the examples you listed are things that would have killed you
If it's going to kill me, then let it happen organically. If I choose to charge into a retarded battle I can't win, let me fight that battle and then die in combat. The way BG3 handled it was garbage and thoroughly unsatisfying.';

'>>3480000
>If it's going to kill me, then let it happen organically
So that's it. That's your complaint? "I couldn't commit suicide in a couple of specific ways therefore the game is trash"';

'>>3480000
>If it's going to kill me, then let it happen organically. If I choose to charge into a retarded battle I can't win, let me fight that battle and then die in combat.
Then you would just complain that game threw a bullshit encounter at you.';

'>>3480005
Behold, the intellectual acumen of someone who shrieks “bad faith!” over a difference of opinion.';

'>>3479990
What do you expect me to say? You have terrible taste and shouldnt dare to speak a thing about the quality of any RPG';

'>>3480000
You're literally confusing "railroading" with story. What you want is a sandbox game or a tabletop DnD game where you can do anything. This isn't tabletop and it isn't a sandbox open world game. All the "muh" stuff you mentioned are elements of the story. So let's get this straight. This would have been a good game for you if there was no Emperor, no prism, no Netherbrain, no Orpheus. So I guess we gotta start from scratch and write a whole new fuckin story now. Or better yet, since this is what you really want, just get rid of the story altogether and leave it an open world sandbox. That's what you want. Just admit it';

'>>3480007
You are calling the limited suicide options "railroading" in a game that is story based';

'>>3480011
Nta but yes, the game would be better If It were less story-driven and more Dungeon driver.
High time RPGs dettach themselves of such intense storytelling. That makes them no different from adventure games really, and betray the purpose of many of its staple mechanics.';

'>>3480018
So then just play a sandbox game, retard. You're complaining that this game is the wrong type of game. Just play the type of games that you like lol';

'>>3479998
Thats called dialogue reactivity, the dialogue reacts to whatever you do or whatever you build and presents to you a line, this is not the same as choices or branching paths.

Every side quests has more than one ending and multiple ways to solve it and reach those endings, each time you may get new lines to get through it towards the ending of it.

Character interaction changes based on your action and even on race, Shadoheart comments are different if you are Cleric Selune or Shar, if you are Mage or Durge.
She has new lines for you, thats not a typical thing in most CRPGs which lack this kind of reactivity.

Furthermore there are many points in the game where you can choose an entire thing, like in Act 2 where you fail to save Isobel and Last Light Inn goes dark vs if you succeed, or if you kill Nightsong and the place changes to total darkness or if you save her and it has moonlight, this is called choice that impact the world and not just a side screen at the end of the game.

This is basically textbook design of RPGs and CRPGs, since the 90s, im wondering what kind of games are you comparing it to to come up with these insane standard lol.
Name the 5 different CRPGs with examples like i did, dont just name the games, give actual examples.

Also one pro tip, interactivity is not just dialogue, it also factors in gameplay,
watch this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dh6nqsFsT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Piq3xAi14U


this is called reactivity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E5mDP-Dw9Y

and this is called interactivity, you interact with the game's world by using various spells that change the gameplay, this adds gameplay depth rather than just fight and talk.
You can break a wall and make noise. OR you can cast silence break the wall and nobody hears anything.';

'>>3480009
I am the one with bad taste? You jerk of to weeb blobbers as some grand standard in rpg. You are mentaly stunted and most likely a product of miscegenation and generations of incest.';

'>>3479966
I dont think so. its mostly Wrpg spergs.
Jrpg fans mind their own business.';

'>>3480020
As I said, Im not the guy youve been arguing with for a while.
Besides, Im trying to argue in good faith, the game is a bad RPG because Its a story mess slop with barely any interesting exploration to be had, It barely has any Dungeons, and even those arent anything more than hallways and little traps.
For an adaptation of D&D it lacks many of the things that make it what it is.';

'>>3479974
D:OS 1 and 2 have great combat systems. The best I've seen in CRPGs, other than Underrail.';

'>>3480011
>a good game for you if there was no Emperor, no prism, no Netherbrain, no Orpheus. So I guess we gotta start from scratch and write a whole new fuckin story now
You’re so close to figuring it out. Keep going, anon. I believe in you.';

'>>3480023
>I am the one with bad taste?
Yes. Im glad that is settled';

'>>3480037
Go ahead and present us with a draft of the new story';

'>>3480030
When asking them about game recomendations I always get some jrpg. It feels like but a next chapter in the utterly pointless war that nerds had been waging against one another since the 90s.';

'>>3480030
>Jrpg fans mind their own business.
The WRPG hate threads are as common as JRPG hate threads.
The BG3 hate does seem to come from the western fans though.';

'>>3480040
There is big bad guy who does bad. You explore a series of giant dungeons to stop him. Done.';

'>>3480040
Oh, god, it's the Fanboy 101 response. How shameful.';

'>>3480037
Ok, let me guess, you think it would be good if it was infection by an ACTUAL tadpole and you could turn into a mindflayer at any moment right? Ok, but that's not a story yet. What's the central conflict in the world at large? Who are the villains? UNLESS, what you really want is an open world sandbox plus a gimmick (mindflayer infection) to hook us into the early game. You can go ahead and admit that this is what you want now';

'>>3480032
Gauntlent of Shar is a one of the best Dungeons ever put in a CRPG.
It has everything, count with me.
>Interesting lore
Check! it tells the story of the region and how the general became the way he is today
>Great art style
Check! the colors of purple and blue blends with darkness and lack of light and fire signifies Sharr cult and its overall beautiful to look at.
>Multilayered level design
Multiple paths, secrets and ways to traverse with shorcuts? Check!
>Fun boss fights
Check! you fight the little devil, you fight your copies of the party, you fight Belthazzar and you fight multiple assassin's
>Pacing
Check! the pacing is a good mixutre between puzzles, lore dumps, cutscenes, exploration and actual battles.
>Rewards
FUCKING CHECK! two legendary items and lots of good loot especially for Shart.
>Choices and story importance
Check! the dungeon is a point of no return for the fate of the region, the final boss, the side character in your party, and even things beyond act 2, things that happens in act 3.
>Soundtrack
Creepy and atmospheric. Check!


10/10 Dungeon.';

'>>3480041
I really dont think its Jrpg fans but it could be one of them who knows, i mostly think its Wrpg spergs and rpgcodex users are enough proof.
Plus most weebs and Jrpg fans dont bother with niche Wrpgs so when they play Bg3 a game with polished gameplay and combat they tend to either struggle and drop the game or learn and love it, maybe few outliers exists, but majority of the sperg you see about bg3 is indeed from wrpg fans.';

'>>3480056
for the record before someone spergs at me, "niche wrpgs" was mentioned as examples of games used as comparison. not talking about bg3 here. i know some retard will try to spin it that way to farm some (you)s from me';

'>>3479386
It's okay.';

'>>3480056
Wrpg spergs hate on wrpgs
Wrpg spergs hate on jrpgs
Jrpg spergs stay in their containment zones sperging out about jrpgs
>t. Wrpg sperg';

'>>3479998
IDK I ordered a pumpkin spice latte in starbuck's yesterday and I considered my dialogs briefly before ordering:
>latte
>latte but VENTI
>latte and my name is Let's Go Brandon please put the whole thing on the cup or I may not hear it when you call
>latte and have you ever considered our privileged positions as two humans engaged in pointless capitalism that we could instead be donating this latte to those blacks who are less capable let's take a selfie together with the donation latte
>latte and fuck the christofascists maaan amirite

I feel they did a pretty robust job covering everything you might actually say.';

'>>3480110
Are you sometimes bothered by how brown you are? Do you ever look in the mirror and ask yourself what terrible decisions your ancestors of various ethnicities made that lead to this sad outcome?';

'>>3480110
>DM railroaded me and didn’t let me make coffee at home like a normal human being
Just proving my point, anon.';

'>>3480051
Puzzle and storytelling corridors filled with preset encounters.
Huge timewaster really, and nothing else.';

'>>3480141
Like every dungeon in an rpg? The fuck should dungeons be then?';

'>>3480147
Have you ever played any Dungeon crawler?
Or perhaps Zelda 1? Seeing that you see dungeons as puzzle-based I guess the series could be influencing your view.
A Dungeon is a labyrinth, a challenge, and a place to spend resources, even through battle, in search of treasure (and an objective perhaps). Not a story device, nor a bunch of lined fetch quest trials.';

'>>3479939
Honestly? I agree.';

'>>3480044
stick to playing games, not making them';

'>>3480157
Its a timewaste, just go to the final area and kill the boss at lvl 1. Why waste time doing all of the other meaningless shit.';

'>>3480531
The difference between a timewaster and a challenge is, well, the purpose of the structure you see.
There is nothing to be found there, nowhere to be lost, no resources to be spent, its just a sequence of corridors with meaningless puzzles that eventually lead you to where its designer desired.
There is no exploration happening, there are no real treasures but the predetermined ones to be found, there are no ways but the correct ones.
Its a sequence of little events painted in the aspect of a Dungeon. But its not one.
Dont get me wrong, you might find It fun, a fun waste of time that could instead be a bunch of lined cutscnes followed by you taking part in a challenge either in the form of combat or in the form of a puzzle and getting a rewards at the end of each.
This is seen as good design today, by the way, and follows the paradigms of the Five or three (I dont recall which one) Dungeons in more modern ttrpgs, but I dont find It correct, and to me Its a betrayal of what a Dungeon is supposed to be.';

'>>3480011
I agree with you. Of course it would be nice to be able to kill everyone and have the world adapt. But that is content and content takes time to make and test. So you have generic paths to follow. Big fucking deal. The emphasis of role play should be immersion in the world, quest completion allowing multiple paths to victory. That's it. All these morrowind fags need to SHUT THE FUCK UP. Like sure, kill everyone, cool. That's interesting for 5 seconds. Now onto the rest the game.';

'>anon 1: it's the best ever at [thing] and puts every other game in the genre to shame
>anon 2: I disagree, here are some counterexamples of game doing [thing] poorly, I didn't think it was better than the genre standard in that regard
>other anons: noooooooooo that's not a fair comparison, you can't compare it to other games in the genre, that's unrealistic, it's just a game and it's bound by constraints of practicality, you just want the game to be [absurd unrealistic strawman that no one has suggested], bad faith argument!!!
Why are they like this';

'>>3480011
>What you want is a sandbox game or a tabletop DnD game where you can do anything.
Probably this. If you play a CRPG, be prepared to conform to its limits. If you are unable to do that, do not play.

I prefer less story, but I can enjoy a game with a specific story to tell without banging my head against a wall, trying to undermine the story constantly.';

'>>3479395
I enjoyed it and I'm pretty late in progression of general videogame jadedness. The gameplay was system, the character interactions were decent enough, and the game flowed better. There were situations like spending 6 hours in a town doing fetch "chat" quests like in DoS1 and 2 which enabled me to enjoy replaying it. It also looks decent, runs well, and plays interestingly. The mechanics and gear are in very logical places, near nothing is permanently missable, and the things that are aren't that big of an issue towards build realization.

More importantly, it's relaxing to play even on (what is now) the second hardest difficulty.
The game, admittedly very easy. However due to it's general easiness let's any kind of freak of a character be able to make it through the game, less on encyclopedic knowledge of the games systems, and more with on the fly decision making. So the pressure of routing a build is less strict then something like Age of Decadence and the importance of remembering every single item isn't as important as some other games I've played.

So you combine a game that just does what it needs to do, well enough, and it's fun to play.
I like it. But my CRPG library is small; Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, NWN 1 and 2 (+ all of 2's expansions), Pillars 1 and 2, Kingmaker and WotR, Wasteland 3, and DA:O.
Of those, I find it more fun to just pick up and play.';

'>>3480959
Isn't fallout considered a crpg and is open world? I haven't played fallout 1, so I guess I don't know how on rails it is.';

'>>3480998
You can't refuse to leave the vault.';

'>>3480959
The objection isn’t “I don’t like that the games narrative constraints, and the practical limits of being a linear and pre-canned CRPG, prevent me from doing literally anything I can possibly think of” which would clearly be unreasonable. The objection is that the narrative constraints are clumsy, ham-fisted, and break the players suspension of disbelief, which is crucial for taking the game seriously. Adding to this are the repeated instances of the game giving you a false choice in which you aren’t actually allowed to take one of the “options” offered to you, which is thoroughly unsatisfying and poor game design.

>the big bad has a bomb collar around your neck
>if you deviate from the plot slightly then he detonates the bomb collar lol game over, nerd
>what, you think that sucks and is dumb? Ok let’s see you write a better story. That’s your fault, you knew you had the bomb collar on your neck, it’s your choice to commit suicide that way, you could have just complied at every juncture
It’s all so tiresome.';

'>>3481318
Next time you're bothered by this, pause the game immediately, get in front of a mirror, and repeat your criticism three times. If done correctly, you will learn how boring it is to hear you complain.';

'>>3480011
NTA, the problem isn't that there's a story, the problem is that it's terribly written and each plot point doesn't naturally follow from one to the other, but rather is connected through the flimsiest excuses, using macguffins which do just what the writers need them to do at the moment for no reason or with internal coherence.
>muh tadpole can't be extracted without killing you
Get a 4th level cleric, kill yourself, have him extract the tadpole and revivify you, cast respite the dead on you if he needs more than a minute
>muh astral prism macguffin
It protects you from transforming (except it doesn't because nobody transforms), it protects you from mind control (except for the entire act I, where you're fine without it while cultists are mind controlled), it has a mind of its own and can choose to attach itself to you (except it can't get itself lost if you bring it to the githyanki), it saved you from falling and can't do that anymore
>muh Emperor, muh Orpheus
Neither of them have a reason to be a retcon of established lore, neither of them have a good reason to oppose each other, neither of them have a good reason to need you for anything, neither of them have a reason to exist in the first place
>muh Netherbrain
It's the greatest threat ever that can be defeated by a level 12 party, it can conquer the world but no gods get involved (except for Mystra and Shar who just go w/e when their initial plans fail), it's so intelligent somebody has to turn into a mindflayer, but it sits there and does nothing, it actually outsmarted the three stooges by doing absolutely nothing and waiting for the plot to happen

The entire plot could be summarized with this 30 second clip from Futurama https://youtu.be/V3ZUhWuiQ20';

'>>3479944
Baldur's Gate 3 IS my favorite RPG.';

'>>3479386

It´s a hit and a miss for me. in The end WoTR felt better.';

'>>3479395
>who wants to interact with those obnoxious, hideous pieces of shit

Idk ask your parents';

'>>3481896
Anon, please, what would others online think of you if they found out..';

'>>3479963
>Would you rather it was an open world sandbox? That's a completely different type of game
yes please!

obviously I know that's not the game they made. your point stands

but I wish more people liked sandboxy, gamey, hardcore rpgs so we'd get one with the polish and production values of bg3

bg3 is very good mechanically. I just don't like the story or the characters or my party being a fucking harem where everyone wants to fuck me holy fucking shit I said "sure, I'd like to learn some magic" to a literal wizard and now he thinks I want to have sex with him HOLY FUCKING SHIT I told the druid he should get a drink DURING A FUCKING CELEBRATION WHERE PEOPLE ARE DRINKING and now I have to tip toe around a dialog option that is clearly leading into fucking him wtf is this writing?!';

'>>3479395
> I mean, just the characters themselves are disgusting. Look at the cover. Who the fuck wants to play a game where you have to interact with those obnoxious, hideous pieces of shit?

So true! I hated especially the retarded ranger who talks about "butt kicking" and his giant space hamster, truly, cringe like that must be a modern invention and not date back to Baldurs Gate 1!';

'>>3481701
>Kill and Revive
That doesnt work for multiple reasons, one is because revive as a spell isn't powerful enough to undo body parts damage, you may need very high spells to remove it safely and characters in the world tell you so, also its implied that the astral magic illthids posses is different from the ones available to you in faerun so that sets another barrier, in act 1 characters you meet still dont know what it actually is and they assume it can be removed, later the emperor tells you it cannot without erasing you.
That would be the lore reason, but from gameplay point revive spells exist to help you resurect characters, if you notice its not used as much in the game story, its used as a mechanics to prevent constant game over or permanent character death, its a tool to keep you going forward, you can think of its as convenient mechanic, i think its silly to put that much weight on it in the story.
>Astral Prism
Later you learn that Orpheus powers channeling from the brain through your guardian is protecting the tadpole for progressing and transforming you, its implied that transformation takes a while and in act 3 you notice people actually transform.
You can go without the prism in act 1 but as soon as you come close to the absolute infested areas you begin to feel their influence of mind control and you are forced by the DM (larian) to get the prism to proceed.
>Emperor and Orpheus
Emperor is a major character with a backstory, he was involved with the whole plot and backstory of the game, he has a reason to exist, replay the game and find out. Orpheus exists for one reason, a tool against the brain power.
>Netherbrain
It was actually behind the plan so yeah, it gave them visions and thats why they made a team to go after the crown.

Nobody claimed this is the best written game ever, you can obviously find nitpicks, like those cinema sins guys on youtube, you can do that with everything, and compared to most rpgs this one has great writing.';

'>>3482004
Minsc was a joke character among 25 possible party members in a first RPG attempt from a studio with no real money or experience. Self-own.';

'>>3482008
And by BG2 he he might as well been the face of the franchise. There is a reason why they broght him back for 3.';

'>>3481981
Why are you freaking out? just tell them no.
I told Astarion no and he never brings that up again, i dont know if you noticed this but Larian games are gamey, that means even their stories are made to be video game stories, not movies or books, obviously nobody in real life tells you their life story if you ask them one question yet in baldurs gate 3 if you pick a question characters start lore dumping you for 2 minutes, nobody talks like this in real life, so this argument that they ask for sex quickly falls apart, because the game is NOT trying to be realistic with its character interaction, i dont know maybe go play The Last of Us or Uncharted or The Witcher 3, those games seems more like your type. and dont freak out now im not saying they are bad, those are well written games, written to be realistic and cinematic, so im sure you will enjoy them more.

Games the give the player freedom have to make concessions on writing plausibility, otherwise they cant widen the spectrum of freedom and interactivity. Look at Disco Elysium, it barely has choices and near zero freedom, thats the price you pay for what you ask for.';

'>>3482015
It's because they are pandering to lonely nerd people and ex-Bioware fans anon, it's not because of being "gamey". It's soap opera characterization.';

'>>3482016
>And by BG2 he he might as well been the face of the franchise
For secondaries, sure.';

'>>3482018
The complaint was that they quickly want to fuck you over minor positive interaction, the game is set that if you reach a certain threshold of + the character will propose a romance path for you, its that simple, this is not Uncharted featuring Drake and Elena or Witcher 3 featuring Geraldo and Yennefer.

If the complaint was about the whole romance aspect then your post is correct, but you can't be surprised about that when its what majority of rpg fans want. luckily for you its optional and you can stay virgin the entire game';

'>>3482022
Sounds like a mechanical issue then, the amount of points required and the thresholds should've been adjusted. However, I'm talking about the impetus for these characterizations and the thought process that informs their decisions.
>If the complaint was about the whole romance aspect then your post is correct
Wasn't it?
>Stay virgin
Don't attempt to write my character's background, Larianite.';

'>>3482017
>even their stories are made to be video game stories
interesting perspective
I tend to dislike story in videogames, maybe that's clouding my judgement';

'>>3482024
>Sounds like a mechanical issue
No because i already told you the game can't be arsed to make interaction realistic.
They want to set you up with a partner in act 1.

Characters dont instantly suck your dick, first you need to do few things that they approve, then you need to talk with them and hear about their past then will come one point where they are happy with you and will offer you a chance for a romance path.
Its really that simple, but some nerds were raging on reddit because of that, just say no and move on lmao.
I'm convinced people that make big deal of this are the ones that care too much about sex and romance.

For me romance and sex exists just as a fun little interaction, i just dont care too much about it, its neat that you can sleep with a character you have grown to like, but i dont put much emphasize about it and rarely if ever bring it up when i want to talk about the game "critically" like any game.
I would care more in some cases with a predefined character like Geralt and choosing between Yennefer and Triss, that has more importance that a Tav choosing a companion to romance.';

'>>3482026
I never found a real good story, so I accepted that I'm not a story person. There isn't a story out there that will blow my socks off.';

'>>3482008
>he's a joke character!!!
cope lol

are you also going to ignore all the shit dialogie and 'joke characters' that clogged the rest of the game up too?';

'>>3482029
I found the romances of Witcher 3 to be awful as well and poorly written. Are you autistic?';

'>>3482033
No. I don't hold Bioware characters in high regard.';

'>>3482026
Probably, stories in video games are different in how they need to be written.
I used to like stories in videogames way more, but when you start to explore other mediums you stop putting too much value in it when it comes to games because i often come for mechanics and overall package that lets me interact with things, thats why i like games that let me choose dialogue more than ones that dont, even if the story is worse, at least i get to interact with it more.
>>3482031
One of my friends is a critic focused on writing, he plays games only for stories and writing he doesnt care about anything else and the list he sent me contained only 8 games rated above 7 lol.';

'>>3482036
Ok but the romance there is more natural and is better developed, i just gave another example since you were talking about that issue.

So what video game romance you like? lol';

'>>3482044
Shadow Hearts. I'd really prefer no "selection" in a romance. Romances aren't a buffet and harems are awful.';

'>>3482047
Can you elaborate why you like the romance in shadow hearts?';

'>>3482052
Because it's not a self-insertion romance based on "pick your desired flavour of fanservice", it's built into, and impactful on, the narrative. Divorced from mechanics.';

'>>3482054
Then why dont you like the romance in Witcher? isn't that basically the same?';

'>>3482055
Nope.';

'>>3482008
The bg1 companions were various tabletop characters that the developers had played over the years. That was why there were so many of them, you were expected to get them killed and replace them with new ones.';

'>>3481981
So you are mad that baldurs gate game is a baldurs gate game. They were never hardcore dungeon crawlers, they had intrusive romances since the sequel. You might aa well be angry that bg3 isn't a space sim you fucking nigger.';

'>>3482074
>So you are mad that baldurs gate game is a baldurs gate game
no';

'>>3482066
Having a wide selection is way better in my opinion. Then you can actually leave the ones you dislike behind.';

'>>3482078
Original two games had clunky combat, unimpressive dungeons and wacky characters. Sequel more or less started romance subplots in crpg. And you expeced third game to be a blobber dungeon crawler? Why?';

'>>3482082
Wide selection of shallow NPCs, some likeable some unlikeable > narrow selection of deep NPCs who are all unlikeable';

'>>3482084
>you expeced
no

>obviously I know that's not the game they made.
>but I wish more people liked sandboxy, gamey, hardcore rpgs so we'd get one with the polish and production values of bg3
that's all. I think it's a great game mechanically. I enjoyed that aspect a lot and I am telling the void that I would like one that did more of the things that I personally like
sometimes, doing this prompts a cool anon to respond with "well, then you want this game!" and then I find someting new and my life is improved';

'>>3482007
Figures that somebody defending this game's writing would be functionally illiterate.

>That doesnt work for multiple reasons, one is because revive as a spell isn't powerful enough to undo body parts damage.
You mean like an eye? I believe we can already choose to sacrifice it. Except if we already did, in which case we can't just remove the prosthesis, for no reason.
>you may need very high spells to remove it safely and characters in the world tell you so, also its implied that the astral magic illthids posses is different from the ones available to you in faerun so that sets another barrier
You forget that the parasites leave your body on their own once you're dead. Can't blame you, because it's shown to happen exactly once in the entire game, for a cheap jumpscare.
>you can think of its as convenient mechanic, i think its silly to put that much weight on it in the story
Think whatever poor excuse you will, resurrection is a thing in FR lore.

>its implied that transformation takes a while and in act 3 you notice people actually transform.
This is the first time I hear of such a thing, provide concrete examples.
>You can go without the prism in act 1 but as soon as you come close to the absolute infested areas you begin to feel their influence of mind control and you are forced by the DM (larian) to get the prism to proceed.
You ran out of ideas to defend the game and are now stating irrelevant facts? Yes and unless you have Shadowheart with you (how any reasonable person is supposed to justify not killing on sight her, the gith and the vampire is another can of worms), it's incredibly contrived and example of terrible writing, whether if it's the macguffin flying to you for no reason, or Shadowheart finding you in just the location.';

'>>3482007
>>3482159 (cont.)
>Emperor is a major character with a backstory, he was involved with the whole plot and backstory of the game, he has a reason to exist,
Great argumentation. What are you, a preschooler?
>replay the game and find out
You can't make me, gave it more than its fair chance.
>Orpheus exists for one reason, a tool against the brain power
Thanks for agreeing with me.

>It was actually behind the plan so yeah, it gave them visions and thats why they made a team to go after the crown.
After the prism. And if the plot didn't happen exactly the way it did, either the three stooges would have gotten the prism and destroyed it. Ignoring how and why it would know of existence, location and capabilities of the githyanki artefact.

>Nobody claimed this is the best written game ever, you can obviously find nitpicks, like those cinema sins guys on youtube, you can do that with everything
My friend, I can't find anything but nitpicks.
>and compared to most rpgs this one has great writing.
Name them then, I'm curious. I've played a fair share of RPGs and I can't think of single one with worse writing.';

'>>3482159
>You forget that the parasites leave your body on their own once you're dead. Can't blame you, because it's shown to happen exactly once in the entire game, for a cheap jumpscare.
I can fix her';

'>>3482042
>One of my friends is a critic focused on writing, he plays games only for stories and writing
Kek sounds awful. But anyways I rarely get into movies/books either, so it feels unfair to me to expect a 40 hour game with gameplay shit in the midst to dazzle me with story, or to hold games to the same standards as older, simpler means of storytelling.';

'>>3482159
>You mean like an eye?
The eye sacrifice can be done with 2 ways, either with Volo surgery or the Hag offer, both end up not working which further proves my point.
I think you didnt understand my point, Revive is not a powerful spell, its resurrection abilities are limited, if this was lets say Wish then you would have a point, but tis just a simple cleric spell that doesnt heal body parts, if you cut someone to pieces and cast revive it won't work.
>you forget that the parasites leave your body on their own once you're dead
I know that, it was shown in act 1 escaping a corpse that died with no hopes of reviving, the parasite leaves after a permanent death and no transformation. once characters are in your party you are given the gamey option to revive them endlessly, this is to allow players to finish the game without cucking them out of companions after one death, i think you need to read more on the parasite and how it works.
>provide concrete examples.
In the sharess inn, there is an npc who transforms into a mindflayer after being infected with the tadpole.
>stating irrelevant facts
I mean you asked, and you received. you bring that up about mind controller cultists but the thing is you cannot go inside the camp unless you have the prism with you to protect you, and from that point on it stays with you even if you try to give it away. they did this to avoid breaking the narrative.

>Say the emperor and Orpheus have no reason to exist
>Provide examples of debunking that
>thanks for agreeing with me.
wait..what?

>After the prism
Yeah the netherbrain actually was behind that, so how can you say it did nothing when the game tells you it was the brain plan to make them go after the that to while getting stronger under the crown influence.
And you are silly to complain about level 12 party beating it, thats like every game ever? you beat the deities in games.
>Name them then
Dragon Age, Pathfinder, TES, NWN, Ultima, Divinity, POE and Wasteland';

'>>3482042
>the list he sent me contained only 8 games rated above 7 lol
Post list.';

'>>3481965
>Anon, please, what would others online think of you if they found out.
They will seethe? They already seethe when i tell them that my favorite Fallout games are Fallout 3 and Fallout Tactics. They already seethe when i tell them that Wizardry 8 is my favorite Wizardry. They already seethe when i tell them that i like the base campaign in NWN. They already seethe when i tell them that Malkavian is the best starting clan to play in VTMB. They already seethe when i temm them that i like Pathfinder:Kingmaker more than Pathfinder:WoTR. They already seethe when i tell them that the Trickery Domain in BG3 is perfectly fine. They already seethe when i tell them that my favorite jRPG is Septerra Core:LoTC. They already seethe when i tell them that Cyberpunk is the best first person action RPG. They already seethe when i tell them that Sacred GOLD is better than Diablo 2.

At this point i am used to it all.';

'>>3483786
>nooooooooooo you can't have fun in single player games the wrong way, you're having fun wrong
Anon, I mildly disagree with roughly half of your list, but that's life. More power to you.';

'>>3483792
>I mildly disagree with roughly half of your list
Finaly someone agrees with me that the Trickery Domain in BG3 is good.';

'BG3 is one of the worst games I've ever played and I've played hundreds and hundreds.';

'>>3479625
Is there any fic about the Bhaalspawn forcing Edwin to use the girdle of masculinity/femininity and fucking "her" brains out?';

'>>3482084
It would have been great If It was, honestly. Game could have been more inspired by the Gold Box D&D games, with first person Dungeon crawling and all, I would love to find a more recent game that contains that gameplay style.
Wouldnt be exactly like its predecessors but, well, thats already the case for the actual game.';

'>>3483786
People making fun of you isn't "seething", especially since you have not altogether uncommon opinions, but, whatever helps you cope.';

'>>3483909
I have done this but unironically and it's well above average. I use it as a litmus test to determine if someone is worth having a discussion with. People who do not like it are generally real life NPCs, I have found, and can safely be ignored.';

'>>3480056
even the codex is praising elements of this game and ranked it #2 in the best games of 2023.
They're also really bitter about the fact that it does things well, like they have to admit it through their seethe';

'>>3481981
what's the point of all the polish and dialogue trees if there's no narrative weight?
You would rather have a couple dozen separate dungeons with maybe a macguffin or quest hook, not tied to the external world at all?
Now THAT sounds boring. Even in dungeoncrawler-y BG1 the vast majority of dungeons/encounters were at least somewhat related to the main conflict.';

'>>3483986
>NPC claws typed this post';

'>>3484003
>You would rather have a couple dozen separate dungeons with maybe a macguffin or quest hook, not tied to the external world at all?
NTA, but yes.
I find the emphasis on dialogue of BG3 such a waste of time, especially when the story is not very good. Romance subplots really are also things I dont find very enjoyable.
Id much rather be able to create my party and explore a more vast world, because the combat is fun, If a bit cluttered due to being based of 5e.
Dungeon design sucked as well, they really need to learn from great past Dungeon crawlers or maybe a game like Zelda 1, given the lack of random encounters.';

'>>3484003
There are people who only care about the story, and people who only care about gameplay. Hard to please both, when they don't give a flying fuck about the other thing, no matter how good.

This is good to keep in mind when listening to criticism. Some people are simply not interested in everything there is to offer.';

'>>3484049
So you wanted something that Baldurs Gate never was since the first game. It never allowed you to create a party from scratch and it never had a wast open world. You played Baldurs Gate and you are upset that it wasn't Might & Magic. You might as well be upset that it wasn't Halo.';

'>>3484065
Well, BG3 is also not exactly what Baldurs Gate was before. If they are changing things up, might as well change them for better.';

'>>3484068
By what, removing things that the series was known for? Are you perchance mentally retarded?';

'>>3484068
>If they are changing things up, might as well change them for better.
Yeah, it would have been cool, if this had happened';

'>>3484065
>It never allowed you to create a party from scratch
Incorrect. There were instructions in the manual on how to do so.';

'>>3484065
>It never allowed you to create a party from scratch
Easy to do in both games, start a multiplayer game, assign control of however many characters you want to make, then start the game, save it, and move your save from multiplayer folder to single player folder.
>and it never had a wast open world.
Bg1 had a fun open world to explore, with a good 75% of it being completely optional and unnecessary. Didn’t move to tighter set piece theme park ride until bg2.';

'>>3484083
>Easy to do in both games
It's not really how the game was designed to be played, isn't it? They wouldn't make shitton of recruitable companions if that was the case. It also doesn't make sense within the plot of the game. Pretty sure there is some way to hack your way to a custom party in BG3 too.
>Bg1 had a fun open world to explore
It was hardly "open world" even at the time when compared to let's say Might and Magic series.';

'>>3484097
>It's not really how the game was designed to be played, isn't it?
Why not? As other anon mentioned, the manual explained how to do so.
>They wouldn't make shitton of recruitable companions if that was the case.
They were all old tabletop characters that the devs had played over the years. Also, there were so many of them because they were intended to be expendable and replaced when killed adventuring.
>It also doesn't make sense within the plot of the game.
Why not? The main character (in slot #1) is the child of Bhaal, everyone else is just a buddy they grew up with, along for the ride.
>Pretty sure there is some way to hack your way to a custom party in BG3 too.
There is (and DOS2 also), it's just clunkier and more annoying. You also create a multiplayer game, but you have to launch 4x instances of the executable, and have each of them join the multiplayer game. Then you save it, and reload that save in singleplayer.
>It was hardly "open world" even at the time when compared to let's say Might and Magic series.
Sure, fair point here. I was mostly contrasting BG1 relative to BG2.';

'>>3479900
Yes its really cool';

'>>3479998
Don't bother, either they are shills or retarded enough to like the game.
It's sad but people with a brain are no longer the focus group of games, we have to move on.';

'>>3484049
>Dungeon design sucked as well
If you don't think dungeon design in bg3 is excellent you are a literally insane shit eater.';

'>>3484115
>tfw too inteligent to not demand that a series that never was a blobber to be a blobber';

'>>3484122
I'm the anon who started this reply chain, and the "I would've liked the game if it were more like a blobber" is someone else. I've never played a blobber, they don't appeal to me personally.';

'>>3484071
Exactly my point.
They have done that already, havent they?';

'>>3484139
What was removed?';

'>>3484117
Why is It excellent exactly? Ive argued why It sucks in this exact same thread when an anon brought up the gauntlet of shar';

'>>3484144
Because it's massive nonlinear areas full of multiple quest lines and loot, directly interactive, with several different methods of entry and traversal, and not a single second of repetitive content. I'm almost certain this is the retard that played through the game as a solo paladin with cheat engine enabled. It is, isn't it? Keep your opinions to yourself. The level design of BG3 is pretty much as good as a CRPG can possibly get, if you can't accept that then your dislike of it is probably due to your own mental hang ups rather than anything genuine.';

'>>3484155
>played through the game as a solo paladin with cheat engine enabled
Yes.jpg';

'>>3484164
Then what is the point of talking to you since you're obviously farquaad and a mentally ill third world retard?';

'>>3484168
>>3484155
>noooo you have to talk to my companinos and learn about their struggles with being gay trans women of color!';

'>>3484173
Go find a new hobby, farquaad.';

'>>3484155
It's so amusing to me that moeblob pretends to be so butthurt about Shattered Lands, when the game is fairly non-linear, not based on "paths", and Dagolar's Lair is a great dungeon that has multiple solutions to it and is even optional. Really makes the gimmick fall apart.';

'>>3484155
>the Larian internet defense force has arrived';

'>>3484181
If you make another dark sun thread surely people will believe you this time. Far better use of your time than actually playing more games and dispelling your retarded delusions, right?';

'>>3484168
Scratch a redditor and a racist shows itself.';

'>>3484185
I'm racist for real, not the pretend /pol/ kind.';

'>>3484184
No, I already owned you hard enough in the last one and proved you know very little about the game and its influence. The way you just disappear when proven wrong makes it boring.';

'>>3484190
>No, I already owned you hard enough in the last one
I have no idea what you are talking about.';

'>>3484192
Of course, you probably edit your memories to alleviate cognitive dissonance, fairly common in egoists.';

'This dude is Farquaad 100%. He got called out in a thread a month or two ago and immediately panicked and got defensive about it. He just inverted his gimmick, and now as preemptive deflection he accuses everyone else of being Farquaad.
>>3484168
>you're obviously farquaad
>>3484180
>Go find a new hobby, farquaad';

'>>3484155
Are we talking about the same game? As I said in another reply, dungeons in this game are all timewasters that could very well be turned into cutscenes intertwined with challenges. Nothing to be explored there. See>>3480895
Also I dont think bg3 is at all similar to Ultima or Wizardry.';

'>>3484195
Yep, I'm the one who called him out. He's made an effort to samefag and do fake fights between the moeblob and farquaad trollsonas. He's really upset that he's so easy to see through.';

'>>3484140
The combat, expansive Dungeons, the way smaller roster of companions, the combat etc.
Its much more of a dialogue focused game';

'>>3484197
>Also I dont think bg3 is at all similar to Ultima
https://www.pcgamer.com/how-an-obsession-with-ultima-7-led-to-some-of-pcs-best-rpgs/';

'>>3484203
>the combat
They replaced the clunky pseudo-real time with something closer to tabletop. Oh noes.
>expansive Dungeons
Baldurs gate dungeons were never that big.';

'>>3484195
You're becoming mentally unraveled now.';

'>>3484049
Im sorry but you are now defending game design that only exists due to constraints of early software in emulating tt. Wizardry and early ultima are revolutionary but boring due to everything needing combat to resolve. Even in dnd 1e there were plenty of prewritten gygax encounters that required lateral thinking instead of combat. The third ultima series is the first to allow for such emergent gameplay and is what the larian design philosophy mostly draws from. This is what the goal always was in rpg design, shitty romance notwithstanding.';

'>>3484206
Ultima 7 is the worst one and the least RPG-like, it's basically an adventure game.';

'>>3484218
You're shifting goalposts to increasingly retarded arguments. Just drop it and stop obsessing over this game and this genre you clearly have no interest in. You aren't fit to have discussions with real fans.';

'>>3484221
>hm yes, I, whose opinions align and overlap near perfectly with Reddit, (((games journalists))), and trannies, am truly the Real Fan, and I am not hysterically defending my slop-enjoyment';

'>>3484221
I'm a different anon who doesn't really care about your argument, just hates Ultima 7 and how it torpedoed the series.';

'>>3484206
Look, Im not saying that there is no inspiration. In ALL fairness, most RPGs are inspired by these two games.
This doesnt change a thing when It comes to the fact that BG3 is not alike the others.
>>3484207
Things changed didnt they? And dont pretend that the dungeons in BG3 are similar to the ones in BG1
>>3484216
Im defending a more traditional approach oriented by exploration.
I dont mean to say that It should or shouldnt mimmick tabletop because really bg3 does a good job of reproducing current ttrpgs trends, but that doesnt make of It any more fun.
So what if Gygax put some pre made encounters in his games?
And well, you can have both random and set story encounters in a game, no problem, all while having a more exploration oriented approach to Dungeons and overworld.';

'>>3484279
And just adding to my point, what lateral combat is there in bg3? You either fight or make a skill check to not fight. Now that is creative';

'>>3484282
Meant to say lateral thinking, my mistake.';

'>>3484279
>Im defending a more traditional approach oriented by exploration.
what exploration? You seem to be defending just gauntlets of dungeons with some randomised reward? How does that reward exploration?
There's plenty of exploration to be had in bg3 by the way and it does affect the way in which you approach the game in a 'lateral' way. Early exploration might give you an advantage in an encounter, get you an ally out of it or even end with very different rewards. Encounters can play out in multiple different ways depending on how much work you put in to exploration.
I made the point about earlier dungeon crawlers vs early tt dnd because you seem to misunderstand what the point was of them. Unless you don't know what the point of an rpg is? CRPGs were always meant to emulate tt, they just couldn't, and because of those constraints the 'dungeon crawler' genre was born along with the other mechanics that were easier to implement in those days, like random encounters. You don't see random encounters anymore because, while they may work for ttrpg considering the other freeform elements it has, it's absolutely shit videogame design. It's also why jrpgs still keep them as a historical artifact, being less informed of the point of (tt)rpgs in general.

>>3484282
>fight or make a skill check
come on now
there's plenty of encounters that can play out in a hundred different ways depending on how you approach them. I'm honestly going to assume that you didn't play the game because that's something even the critics of bg3 can agree on';

'>>3484391
Then I guess all RPGs should be action RPGs now that we can mimmick real combat in a way that is not turn based.
What a retarded point, seriously.
>there's plenty of encounters that can play out in a hundred different ways depending on how you approach them
Such as? I dont recall any encounters having any solution that isnt either combat or skill check. Sure the cutscene changes depending on If you chose the bard dialogue, but effectively, what is the difference? Roll a die and its either solved peacefully or turned into a fight.
And in any way, nothing of that makes of the fact that BG3 Dungeon design in BG3 is a bunch of corridors intertwined with challenges. Random encounters are fun because they add risk and variety, you can design "Scripted" encounters in a ttrpg as well, the random encounters are there to create variety and add a risk-factor to keep dungeon crawling.';

'>>3484437
>Then I guess all RPGs should be action RPGs now that we can mimmick real combat in a way that is not turn based.
As long as a system like this would still have other core rpg elements (and I mean actual rpg elements not witcher shit), I don't see the issue. This is basically what rtwp tried. But you're going past my original point, which is that these games tried to emulate a more complicated free-form system, but could only simulate a narrow aspect of it, and continuing to focus on this narrow aspect is dull and trite.

>Such as? I dont recall any encounters having any solution that isnt either combat or skill check.
You can use things like minor illusion to bait enemies on breakable structures/chasms without initiating combat, you can poison people's food to thin the herd, there are alternate paths in several dungeons that you can escape/bypass through forgoing combat altogether. You can discover things that influence later combat if you realise what it means for example the displacer beasts food and beast speech with it, finding out ketheric's entire backstory can influence the way the fight plays out greatly.
>And in any way, nothing of that makes of the fact that BG3 Dungeon design in BG3 is a bunch of corridors intertwined with challenges.
and drpgs being a bunch of rooms with nothing interesting in them except combat, and if there is something interesting it carries no weight because it's there 'just cause'';

'>>3479827
Jesus christ if you want to say a blobber at least say something good like MM6 and not some tb dungeon crawler shit';

'>>3484462
Dungeon crawling has always been the core of the ttrpg experience.
Sure, now they can emulate the more free form side of NPCs, but that doesnt need to be so in detriment of good Dungeon crawling. First person Dungeon crawling, and sandboxy overworld, creating a party from scratch etc are all perfectly able to coexist with more intense and free form dialogue.
Its all about the little puzzle boxes in BG3 things that are seen as good game design nowadays, but that remove real exploration and fun from the game, all in virtue of more cutscenes and storytelling
>>3484522
Sure mm6 is good too';

'>>3484762
You've still not explained what's so superior about drpg dungeon design, all you've said is BG3 has corridors with challenges (which isn't even accurate and can be just as well applied to drpgs calling it 'rooms with challenges').
>Dungeon crawling has always been the core of the ttrpg experience.
That you can approach in a million different ways, also with things that aren't on your char sheet. What ways can I approach a dungeon in a drpgs in a way that doesn't involve combat?';

'>>3484437
>I dont recall any encounters having any solution that isnt either combat or skill check.
You did not play the game.';

'>>3484972
>You've still not explained what's so superior about drpg dungeon design
Sorry, that is on me, I though that was made obvious when I listed the characteristics of good Dungeon design.
Now lets not pretend im talking about all drpgs, I mostly refer to games like Wizardry, Elminage, Bards Tale etc
The fun thing about the Dungeons in these sorts of games is that they are not concise contained structures meant to be corridors of challenges and puzzles leading you towards a reward. They are more like mazes, they do have their challenges, yes, but what they do masterfully is get you lost and drain your resources while letting you explore its many rooms and corridors in search of potential treasures or objectives that might not even be there. You might have to leave a few times before you find the way to lower floors or some other thing you might be looking for; a character may die deep in the Dungeon, demanding that you decide between staying and risking a wipe or leaving and losing your "progress"; you may never even find something, likely in a game like Elminage.
I wish BG3 had these sorts of Dungeons, they are much more fun to explore, much more engaging, they feel like ruins not meant to be entered (in a "in-world" perspective), instead of little curated experiences
Now, when It comes to engaging with threats, random encounters are combat intensive, sure, but you dont need to fight them all first of all, running away is sometimes the best strategy. Furthermore, given the high risk they pose, engaging with them demands a strategic approach, you must know your party, the limited tools they have and your enemy, so the way of dealing with combat can also be very varied.
I dont think being combat intensive detracts from the BG3, but I think the combat systems being a slog does. I dont mean It as a criticism when I say that BG3 encounters are always either combat or skill check, but you both should not pretend there is a lot more to It.';

'>>3485085
Just adding to the random encounters discussion, as I said these need not to be in exclusion with parlaying with enemies or seeking peaceful solutions.
A game like pool a radiance did these sorts of things even on Its NES port, where you cant even write shit, its possible to mix both';

'>>3485085
>but what they do masterfully is get you lost and drain your resources while letting you explore its many rooms and corridors in search of potential treasures or objectives that might not even be there.
this is called bad game design
What's the point of dungeon-delving if I can't influence my play based on non-combat information? Why can't I find clues to where the optimal path (for my party comp) is, or be able to ascertain which dungeons may have higher chance of finding the things I need (assuming it's not procgen loot)? Why do these dungeons metanarratively EXIST in the first place? What's the point of looting them at all if it's just number go up?
#2 Why are you criticizing BG3 on a design philosophy it wasn't ever going to follow in the first place?
>but you both should not pretend there is a lot more to It.
there very much is, but I can see why you'd think that if you played the entirety of bg3 as a dungeon crawler combat sim';

'>>3485086
>>3485085
though I will grant that BG3 is a bit too charitable with resources and they should matter more';

'>>3482297
Are you a genuine retard or is pretending you don't know what you're talking about your strategy of defending this game?
Let me rehearse:
>tadpoles don't leave you until you're dead, at which point the spring out of you. See: Edowin, Nettie's drow
>revivify is an in-lore spell that allows one to resurrect someone within a minute https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Revivify https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Revivify#content
>gentle repose is an in-lore spell that allows to prolong the time limit of resurrection spells pretty much indefinitely https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gentle_repose https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Gentle%20Repose#content
>as seen in both Volo and Ethel encounters and the opening cinematic, the parasite resides directly behind the eye
So you get yourself a 4th level cleric with both Revivify and Gentle Repose prepared and kill yourself. The parasite "soon after", judging by Edowin's case not even a full minute, you may not even need Gentle Repose, escapes on its own. As both Edowin's and Nettie's drows' corpses show, there's no permanent damage to any organs. Realistically you can suspect it would damage an eye in escaping. You do not need Wish, you do not need super special netherese magic that does whatever the authors need it at the moment, you do not need to cut anything open, you just need to kill yourself and wait.
>escaping a corpse that died with no hopes of reviving, the parasite leaves after a permanent death and no transformation
This is your fanfic. There's nothing preventing reviving Edowin aside from technical limitations.';

'>>3482297
>>3485109 (cont.)

>In the sharess inn, there is an npc who transforms into a mindflayer after being infected with the tadpole.
Exactly one. No other True Soul transforms at the sight of you, only this one and only so that a whore can be lustful towards a mindflayer. This is exactly the type of narrative consistency that I'm bashing this game for.
>you bring that up about mind controller cultists but the thing is you cannot go inside the camp unless you have the prism with you to protect you, and from that point on it stays with you even if you try to give it away.
So it should be needed by the time you meet your first True Soul. Or rather, since the True Souls are sent to the beach where the nautiloid fell, at the beach.
>they did this to avoid breaking the narrative.
See, that's the problem. That the narrative is so brittle that it falls apart at the slightest nudge.

>>Provide examples of debunking that
You don't know what examples are or what debunking is. All you did was contradict like a 5 year old child.
>>thanks for agreeing with me.
>wait..what?
You said it yourself: Orpheus exists only as a tool for the hack writers.

>how can you say it did nothing when the game tells you it was the brain plan
Because the brain's plan hinges on everything outside of its control. First of all, Gortash needs to get the logical idea to steal an artifact that has been in Gith possession for thousands of years for no reason (because it could out a stop to his plans... sitting in a gith fortress?), then he needs to make the logical decision to send a lone nautiloid full of mindflayers that would be shielded from mind control by the artifact, then said mindflayers have to succeed and bring the prism to the brain, when they are free from its mind control.';

'>>3485100
>What's the point of dungeon-delving
To explore, that is what Ive been saying.
Nowadays, yes, It may be seen as bad Dungeon design, but that is because players have the expectations of winning every time they attempt something.
The optional path is not something you should need to figure out, rather just look for a path that works for you is enough.
Tending to the question of ascerting what you may find, looking at the example from Elminage, you can deduce that higher danger Dungeons contain better random loot. The point is that you have to calculate risks and find a way to minimize them. Of course you also have quests to fulfill and these give you a clear objective to search. Elminage has many, but older ones that had one big central Dungeon have the story objective to be reached.
Now about a metanarrative reason, well, I dont know. There is most of the time a small background to Dungeons in these games, but yes, its a gameplay first experience, I really dont see a problem with that, in fact, I think that is the correct approach. You are playing the game, not watching it. These Dungeons are fun to explore, they dont serve a story purpose, and that is the point.
Now, at last, im not criticizing BG3 in comparison to the series previous entries, Im looking at It from the entire RPG standpoint, from what the genre does great, and that BG3 could do. I dont care about its intentions, if It wanted or not to be a dating sim or an epic storytelling experience, or If It fulfilled the devs objectives. I care only that It is not as fulfilling of an experience and that It lacks what makes other RPGs great, its Dungeons arent good and It lacks the fun provided by more exploration-oriented RPGs. Sure It has tons of dialogues and cutscenes, but all of that fall flat when the gameplay isnt as Fun as It could be.';

'>>3485203
>expectations of winning every time they attempt something.
it's not about winning, it's about having options';

'>>3479948

Look, you can have your own opinions, but video game RPGS with linear plots will railroad you. All RPGs will railroad you in fact, but in person your DM can mask that fact and make you think you are doing something, a video game as it stands baring some bad A.I vomiting more things at you has to have you do things a certain way. It can let you do them out of order and do more or less, or give you more or less choices that "matter" but if it has a linear plot, which this game does, it must railroad you to a degree. That is just how video games work.';

'>>3485320
But you do have. You can approach a maze like however you like, because since you dont even know where the objective is, all you can do is explore.
Ill never forget how in Elminage original found Ring in Nicoreth Volcano by randomly teleporting around It because my party was too weak to take the encounters in there.';

'>>3485333
>All RPGs will railroad you
Yes. God I wish people would stop always defaulting to the same goddamn low fruit criticism. No shit, there aren't unlimited options in games, we all knew that.';

'>>3485333
>if it has a linear plot, which this game does, it must railroad you to a degree. That is just how video games work.
Yes, this is true, and I acknowledged this very point myself later in the reply chain. I think everyone here, or most, understand this. The argument being raised isn’t “I don’t like that due to the technical and narrative constraints of being a pre-canned CRPG, I cannot do literally anything I can think of”, the argument is that:
1. At several points, enumerated above, the games narrative presents you with “choices” in which you simply aren’t allowed to choose one of the choices. This is thoroughly unsatisfying and obnoxious to the player. If you’re just going to go “But thou must!” until I say yes, don’t even give me the option of saying no.
2. The games writing is very poor and the plot is nonsensical and frequently relies on ham-fisted and clumsy plot devices to force things along. Swen said they felt backed into a corner by the use of the MacGuffin and that’s how you get really stupid shit like “lol that companion you ignored just teleported to you in a cutscene” because it was necessary for the plot.
3. The result of 1 and 2 together is a very jarring, immersion-breaking experience that shatters suspension of disbelief. The story and writing aren’t merely “not great” which is normal for CRPGs (the point is the gameplay, the story is but part of the package), and cross over into being actively dumb enough and annoying to actively detracting from the other elements of the game that are good and fun.
In short, they fucked up, and fanboys rush to defend this incongruence in order to prevent cognitive dissonance. Again, if someone says “yeah that was dumb but l still had fun and liked it” that’s a completely reasonable opinion. I’m merely objecting to retards who fawn over it as the best ever and pretend it’s flawless.';

'>>3485347
>No shit, there aren't unlimited options in games, we all knew that.
This is a strawman argument, approaching rank dishonesty.';

'How come the people who argue over this game at all are invariably boring and repetitive? RPGs used to provoke interesting debate and humour, now it's like people just going through the motions.';

'>>3485341
that's an option in exploration only
where are all the others?';

'>>3485362
Okay, you found a choice that was lacking and got upset, no shit, not a terrible surprise to anyone etc.';

'>>3485377
Okay, you found a post that was lacking and got upset, no shit, not a terrible surprise to anyone etc.';

'>>3485390
>you found a post
Posts. Endless boring posts for years and years about the same thing over and over again';

'>>3485394
And you expected better? lol, this is internet convention. Does everything have to revolve around you and your unrealistic expectations? Get over yourself.';

'>>3485403
Just get new material, or stop posting if NPC regurgitation is all you can muster';

'>>3485408
>Just do better bro. Meet my unrealistic expectations.
You sound exactly like him. Is that the issue, you hate when you see yourself in others?';

'>>3485410
Who? What unrealistic expectations?';

'>>3485411
Autistic and repetitive posts about video game criticism are an internet convention. It's built in. Stop expecting everything to revolve around your specific requirements. You found a poster you dislike, get over it.';

'Its amazing to me that an autistic retard has been crying about this game nonstop for over a year and not only does everyone still love it but its even more popular than anyone had even imagined it could be.';

'>>3485417
It's a mental illness anon. Those people can't help themselves.';

'>>3485417
Feels good to be on the right side of history, eh? Truly, the masses are the final arbiter of all taste and goodness. What a blessed and healthy world we live in.';

'>>3485412
So you're saying I'm asking too much from the good people of /vrpg/.. I'll need to think about this';

'>>3485429
Exactly, it's like expecting video game developers to innovate in order to please your specific needs while making no more money. Completely foolish and pissing in the wind of practicality.';

'>>3485417
>all criticism is just crying
>you are le autist
>everyone loves it
very interesting post thanks for sharing anon';

'>>3485109
Tadpoles dont leave until the body is with the point of no reviving.
Come on give me ONE example where a parasite left the body and you are able to revive it? just one.
Try to kill one of your party members you will notice that the parasite doesnt leave, this means you can still revive them.
Revive is not that powerful, its merely a 4th level spell and cannot repair severe damaged body parts, i have told you this but you are refusing to listen.
If you had Wish then maybe you argument could be valid, but you dont have it.
Also its implied that the parasite the party got is some sort of an Illithid magic, its beyond to be tempered with as stated multiple times in the game, even by the Emperor himself.

>Exactly one. No other True Soul transforms
For me thats enough to destroy your criticism, you said nobody transforms, i proved you wrong. next.

>So it should be needed by the time you meet your first True Soul
Not really, its implied in the game that the Goblin camp is a huge nest that reeks of the absolute influence, thats why you get that vision when you approach the camp, thats also why they force you to equip the prism, otherwise the narrative will break there,you admit it yourself, there has to be restriction by the DM in every campaign and in every plot, otherwise if everything is chaotic then there are no stakes and plausibility.

>You don't know what examples are or what debunking is
I know you are just upset that i dont agree with you on everything, i never claimed its the best written piece of fiction in gaming, you imply its the worst thing ever, so its not my fault you are not accepting possible explanations for ambiguous plot elements which exists in like every rpg ever.

>You said it yourself
My dude, you said he had no reason to exist, he and the emperor which i debunked, he has a reason to exist in the plot, so do the emperor.

The brain had a plan and waited patiently until it worked, well it didn't because of your party.';

'>>3485417
Wait this drpg autist has been doing this nonstop? Jesus';

'>>3485444
>its beyond to be tempered with
wow, that sounds really cool, my dm should use that in his next freeform campaign';

'>>3485446
The other dude has been defending the game for years too while shitting up other threads about games he doesn't personally like. They are probably related.';

'>>3483786
>like Pathfinder:Kingmaker more than Pathfinder:WoTR
holy based I forgive your previous transgressions.';

'>>3485437
There are some good posters here on /vrpg/ though.';

'>>3485454
I know, I'm one of them. :)
As long as you don't make a gimmick persona or think everyone is samefagging or a butthurt janny or less than you for having different taste, you're cool.';

'>>3485360
You dont get to decide whats acceptable/reasonable and whats not.
Why do you think you have the authority on this? why i must agree with you that its was dumb but i liked it but you cannot agree with me?
See how this works? you are an egomaniac who is dishonest and wants to impose his opinion on our throat.

So i played lots of CRPGs and RPGs in general and i rank this one high in writing, why because the writing was engaging, reactive and well built into a video game format, furthermore the writing provide with a number of cool twists that change the pacing and the tone of the game, and the characters in the game are simply fantastic, and to add to all of this the side quests are all interesting and connect to story and its characters in a meaningful way.
For example the whole Guild questline in act 3 with Jaheira and Minsc and how they connect two characters to the event of the game and Baldurs Gate. Or how Raphael questline connect to the ending.
This kind of reactivity and branches that not only connect but also react to what you do before or after is simply good writing, thats good writing for games, you dont need to write a book/novel and copy it to games.
Add to that the level of polish with fully voice acted dialogue and cutscene and its engaging enough.
Larian also implemented a new branch for the Dark Urge which can give a lot of backstory.

This kind of thing is rarely seen in a lot of RPGs.
Keep in mind a lot of RPGs are just as generic and as flawed in their stories, a lot of generic characters and tons of pacing issues and side quests that feel out of place.
I can count the RPGs with better writing and they are really not that much.
If you think that pointing out few flaws is going to change opinions then i have a cake to sell you, Cinema Sins have been doing this for years and nothing changed.

You need to understand that what you find super annoying and super super obnoxious doesnt apply for the rest of players.';

'>>3485448
Show me one single plot in any RPG where you have 100% full freedom and you will see how it quickly falls apart. The more freedom you have the more disjointed the plot becomes.';

'>>3485367
Well, exploration should be the most important thing so Im glad that there are options for that.
But well, you can run away, you can Teleport out of combat, you can strategize around petrification etc.
ALL combat oriented but with enough Variety. Once again, not my criticism of bg3';

'>>3485417
I think i would love the game and move on if retards didn't cry and seethe about it daily, they forced me to be a defender lol and now im a fan, im already invested.

I think i know why some people do this, i will exclude the ones who say its woke because frankly those are so few.
So the reason why some are seething at it, trying to convince others that its not good is because they lost a good game to the masses.
You see now BG3 has broke into the mainstream, this is alarming to the CRPG veteran le hardcore gamer that believes they have a monopoly on liking them, now if you go into the street and meet a casual that barely plays RPGs he will tell you BG3 is one of his favorite, this makes the hardcore fan feel so bad that the he spends most of his life playing this searching for a favorite but now he shares it with someone that barely cares and invests into the hoppy, it feels that you are being robbed, who is this casual retard and why are we supposed to share the same favorites despite me playing over 500 games and him played 50, this is unfair. they start to look for reasons to nitpick and hate on it, trying to find a new hidden gem favorite that makes them special and unique and "unlike" those "normal" people.';

'>>3485085
>The fun thing about the Dungeons in these sorts of games is that they are not concise contained structures meant to be corridors of challenges and puzzles leading you towards a reward. They are more like mazes, they do have their challenges, yes, but what they do masterfully is get you lost and drain your resources while letting you explore its many rooms and corridors in search of potential treasures or objectives that might not even be there. You might have to leave a few times before you find the way to lower floors or some other thing you might be looking for; a character may die deep in the Dungeon, demanding that you decide between staying and risking a wipe or leaving and losing your "progress"; you may never even find something, likely in a game like Elminage.

You are looking for Roguelike games
Dungeons like these can be cool but they lack the significance of a proper handcrafted meaningfully designed dungeons.
This is like comparing a chalice dungeon in bloodborne vs legacy dungeon in elden ring.
Its like not even a comparison when you look at it through the lens of quality, but if you just want to mindlessly replay the game then yeah, that doesnt mean the dungeon is bad or "sucked" though, that means you want a different kind of thing.';

'>>3482347
>Post list.
Sure those were the games that got rated 8 and 9 (no game was rated 10)

1.Planescape Torment
2.Persona 2
3.Xenogears
4.The Last of Us
5.Spec Ops: The Line
6.Witcher 3: Hearts of Stone
7.Metal Gear Solid
8.Soma';

'>>3485482
>You see now BG3 has broke into the mainstream, this is alarming to the CRPG veteran le hardcore gamer
Imagine when they see a woman enjoying Baldur's Gate kek';

'>>3485497
I figure that would be a good opportunity to make a girlfriend, lol

But yeah i agree with you, there is this one girl that beats From Software games with a dance pad, she also plays Baldur's Gate 3 and if i recall correctly she beat the game on honor mode.';

'>>3485482
>You see now BG3 has broke into the mainstream, this is alarming to the CRPG veteran le hardcore gamer that believes they have a monopoly on liking them.
Not the anon you've been talking about but let me give my two cents. I am what you would call a *le hardcore veteran gamer*, i have no problem with other people enjoying videogames. I am all for more people enjoying videogames like Baldur's Gate 3, Jagged Alliance 3, Wasteland 3, Rogue Trader etc. I would actually love it if more people suddenly start enjoying the games i like instead of crap like Fortnite and LoL.';

'>>3485496
>persona2
>xenogears
>tlou
I think your friend isnt as well read as he thinks he is. Those games dont have good writing. And the games on that list that do are all time classics so no points for that. Im also p sure spec ops is also only there bc he knows its a heart of darkness allegory (a poor one at that)';

'>>3485510
Thats because your self worth is not centered around which games you like/beat which is a good thing.

If you notice i said "le" as i was meaning to mock them, hardcore gamer is just that hardcore gamer who is into the hobby for more than casual fun.
Le hardcore gamer is a one that basis their entire personality on this trait and will get upset if you tell him a casual friendly game is good. he likes to argue with you from a point of superiority where his takes are the only correct ones and yours are worthless.';

'>>3479386
Finally a RPG where I can nick furniture from the dungeons I'm crawling in. Always playing games i had that nagging feeling when finding a treasure "I don't even care about the contents, I want to take this cool chest with me". If I was living in the forgotten realms I would start up a furniture store selling shit I got from adventuring.';

'>>3485514
>Those games dont have good writing
I hope you know this is meaningless as long as you don't give a good explanation for your view. Any anon can say this, some even manage a few reductive reasons.';

'>>3485482
>they forced me to be a defender lol and now im a fan, im already invested
this is really sad and exactly the same mentality as the people you are mocking. you are informed by other people's perceptions.';

'>>3485516
Art theft was a valid strategy in dos2 to make money without outright stealing from vendors';

'>>3485471
I'm making fun of your English. But it's funny to me that you say "doesn't matter plot needs rails to function" and then try to justify the rails. Why bother if the rails need to be there?';

'>>3485514
I dont agree with him most of the time, but he knows his stuff around what makes good and bad writing.

For me most important things in games are not the plot

Game design is king, the way gameplay works, how interactive the game is, how the combat works, how the game controls, the world design, how the levels are build, do they react to your abilities/skills or they are just there for set dressing, how the loot is made, how progression is crafted, level of depth and difficulty that is just right and not too bloated or too thin, exploration and how rewarding it is? is it fun to explore? is the content unique and refreshing or its recycled and repetitive and uninspiring? how is the encounter design was it made to be solved in one single way or does it allows creativity and freedom and multiple approaches? challenge is also important, but it doesnt need to be hard, just the right amount of challenge that forces me to make decisions.

Then beyond that you look at the world and its design, how rich with content it is, how varied the levels or the biomes are, how multilayered the layout is and does it all multiple paths or its a linear straight line to progress

Then i look at presentation, i admire good writing but good presentation with average writing beats good writing with shit presentation to me.

Then comes the writing, i should note character are above presentation but main plot is not.
Writing i care the most for characters, then dialogue and how fun it is to interact with its systems, then quests quality then main plot and worldbuilding at the end.

After that comes the aesthetics, the art direction and character design

Then music and sounds which i also like

Beyond that i dont care anymore, i do value immersion and atmosphere but only in games that try to do that, and the overall package accommodates towards those points';

'>>3485526
English is not even my 2nd language, but yeah rails need to be there, for sure.
I just try to justify as much as i can, take what you want from it and leave the rest, its up to you, if i can think of an explanation to justify it, i will try, if not i will not.';

'>>3485526
>Why bother if the rails need to be there?
Because with them you can tell stories';

'>>3485516';

'>>3485496
>1.Planescape Torment
>5.Spec Ops: The Line
>6.Witcher 3: Hearts of Stone
Based';

'>>3485529
>>3485530
No, why bother justifying the rails? Let me put it another way: are all rails equal?';

'>>3485538
I dont understand the question';

'>>3485538
Do you happen to know a video game story without rails?';

'>>3485543
But I did eat breakfast.';

'>>3485527
Im not reading all that shit';

'>>3485543
You can think about it for more than a minute or two, there's no time limit. I can't make it simpler than 4 words.
>>3485544
Are all rails equal?';

'>>3485554
You dont have to.
tldr: i dont agree that plot is the only thing that matters, the rest are thing what i value in games if you are interested.';

'>>3485556
>I can't make it simpler than 4 words.
Can you give examples in games? that will make me understand it better. Game doesnt have to be real.';

'>>3485556
>Are all rails equal?
Are all stories equal?

If I answer your question, will you tell me which game has no rails in the main story?';

'>>3485558
>>3485562
I'm saying it's not a problem of rails, it's a problem of some plot points being dumber than others which turns them from story to rails. But, if you are looking at games purely structurally, it's really not worth justifying them, because you accept them just based on function. What it comes down to is which rails are acceptable to you versus which aren't. Like, if you are creating a scenario to justify a lack of options rather than creating a scenario to tell a story. Try to make something where the player doesn't feel the constraints quite so much. Good storytelling is like a ride, yes, and a good ride is not one you want to get off of.';

'>>3485569
You're not a genius for realizing a RPG story would be better without rails.

You would be a god among men levels of genius if you realized a RPG with a compelling story without rails.

So this discussion is basically "a thing should be perfect" and "nothing is"';

'bg3 sucks donkey balls and anyone that likes it is a doodoo head in my book';

'>>3485578
Anon, are you sure you can even have discussions in English? You aren't understanding what I'm saying at all.';

'Played the game and i did like it. My only problems are that there are too many lgbt stuff and the fact that it was easy to make romances even when you are just being nice.';

'>>3485599
I should have also mentioned the amount of black dwarfs';

'>>3485593
Your point was clear
>Try to make something where the player doesn't feel the constraints
Which boils down to "be better"';

'>>3485599
At least you can be nice without romances. In bg2 i had to be a dick to Jaheira for her to stop trying to jump on my dick right after seeing her husbands mutilated corpse.';

'>>3485463
>You dont get to decide whats acceptable/reasonable and whats not
Here, let me give you an example:
>I like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I think they taste good, and I like eating them.
Reasonable.
>Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are, objectively, one of the greatest foods in history. They are my litmus test for food: anyone who doesn't like them is an absolute retard, and their opinions can be discarded.
Not reasonable.
Now replace 'PB&J' with 'BG3'. Same shit happens in every thread about the game on this board.

The frustrating part is that I've presented a nuanced argument, couched in an acknowledgement that it's my subjective opinion, and readily admitting that I can understand why other people might disagree and have different opinions than I do, and reach different conclusions based on the same information than I did, presented politely and with a lack of personal insults, and citing multiple specific examples from the game as to why I reached the conclusions that I did. That's the whole idea of a discussion, right? We share our opinions and conclusions, explain why, present examples and evidence for our points, and then discuss, yeah?
But for some reason, when it comes to BG3, you get hardcore fanboy mode setting in, and suddenly everything is emotional arguments and non sequiturs and insults, and the game's "defenders" cannot abide even mild criticism. There's a really fucking weird form of emotional investment going on in the game. Like shit, at the very start of this whole conversation we saw "bad faith" introduced to mean, rather than dishonest argumentation, someone who simply didn't like something that someone else liked. Now:
>you are an egomaniac who is dishonest and wants to impose his opinion on our throat
There's this really weird phenomenon on /vrpg/ where I've found that dishonest people tend to project that dishonesty onto others, even in response to people who are going out of their way to argue honestly.';

'>>3485606
I'm explaining that it's not really about the rails to people, it's that they feel the rails are dumb and that varies by person. Nothing to do with "don't have rails", more to do with "where there is smoke there is fire".';

'Then here, this is an excellent example:
>>3485482
>I think i would love the game and move on if retards didn't cry and seethe about it daily, they forced me to be a defender lol and now im a fan, im already invested.
"I'm emotionally invested in the game, so now I'm a fanboy to 'own' people who have anything negative to say about it"
>You see now BG3 has broke into the mainstream
BG1 sold millions of copies when the market was much smaller and games were lucky to sell hundreds of thousands. It's always been a popular and well-known series, not some hipster
>new hidden gem favorite that makes them special and unique and "unlike" those "normal" people
and so on. The rest of the post is simply bizarre projection.
Or this kind of stuff:
>trying to convince others that its not good
or
>If you think that pointing out few flaws is going to change opinions then i have a cake to sell you
It's always some weird projection of "you're just lying to trick people" instead of just having an honest discussion about what people liked, what people disliked, and why.
Same with
>>3485497
>Imagine when they see a woman enjoying Baldur's Gate
lel XD the chuds are mad at women
and so on. I'm sure you've all seen the dozens of derivative posts about "people only disliked the game because of trannies" and "the game sold millions of copies so it must be good and people who dislike it are only jealous" and so on.

I honestly think someone could do a pretty good (((psychology))) thesis on the utterly bizarre reactions to BG3, both people who loved it, and hated it. I've seen so much weird shit in these threads. What's the shit that zoomers do nowadays, "parasocial relationships"?';

'>>3485673
Yes you made your point already, rewording it doesn't help.';

'>>3485674
>>Imagine when they see a woman enjoying Baldur's Gate
>lel XD the chuds are mad at women
I noticed that too, it's like they are absolutely sure about all the aspects of the people they are talking to. It shows that it's not really about games to them, it's about a perceived "enemy".';

'>>3485691
lol, he mad';

'>>3485672
I'm sorry but i dont really buy this excuse, everything you wrote applies to pretty much every game ever.
Every "big" game has its fans and they are going to tell you that its the greatest game ever, because to them it is, i bet you wouldn't do that if someone tells you Knights of the Old Republic is the greatest RPG ever, even if you disagree with it.
BG3 is still new and is still the big thing currently, it will obviously get more defense and hype than the rest of the older games, thats just how it is. Do i need to remind you how many Elden Ring is the goat threads and youtube videos were made in 2022? or how many people still circlejerk Silent Hill 2, MGS3 and Fallout New Vegas?
Should i go into every thread demanding that their fans adhere to my arbitrary standards of what reasonable praise and unreasonable praise for their favorite game is?
Disagreements are fine, but thats not what has been going in BG3 and you know it, some people here will try to shut down any positive opinion of the game, its this obsessive nature that gets you such reactions that you are complaining about.';

'>>3485674
Again thats not how it works.
Suppose i played two games that i loved equally, one game rarely gets talked about but the other gets constantly discussed, eventually i will find myself fanboying one game over the other simply because of that, and as a result of investing more and more you become a bigger fan of said game.

People who played BG1 are not the same anymore, in 2001 yes BG was popular RPG, but in 2023 it wasn't, it was really niche and every gaming website rarely talks about them maybe except niche ones. So dont try to delude yourself that the old BG had this influence of the success of BG3 because they didn't

>honest discussion about what people liked
I had lots of discussions above and in many other threads, some are good and honest but some are also bad and dishonest, i dont know which anon are you but one of the "honest" anons here couldn't form one argument without throwing an insult at me, simply because of disagreement, so please dont try to paint me as the dishonest person here.
Just as a hater will look for any opportunity to nitpick the fuck out of the game, im going to look for any to justify and defend the game, fair deal.';

'>>3485714
>Just as a hater will look for any opportunity to nitpick the fuck out of the game, im going to look for any to justify and defend the game, fair deal.';

'>>3485608
Wasn't she moping about him in bg3?';

'>>3485857
he's lying anyway, it takes ages and ages to start the romance with jaheira in bg2.';

'>>3485857

What was the canon outcome of ToB? Sarevok and Viconia clearly didn't get redeemed.';

'>>3485909
>What was the canon outcome of ToB?
There wasn't one, and if there were, neither Larian nor WotC would give a shit';

'I'm not a swords and sorcery or dnd fan in general but I bought this recently and thoroughly enjoying it.

Is there a way to switch characters mid conversation or forecast conversations so I can have the right character ready?

Probably my biggest annoyance so far is starting a scene and I have the wrong character selected because I wasn't expecting a convoy to start.';

'>>3485444
Since you have nothing left but regurgitating arguments I already destroyed at best and going "nuh uh, DEBOONKED" at worst, I'll stop being your substitute for human interaction. Have a nice time with the game, maybe one day you'll even play it.';

'The Emperor has to be one of the most poorly written garbage fire characters in the genre. Nothing about his backstory makes any sense (Moonrise didn't exist in Balduran's time and why the fuck would he care about some dump a couple km away from a place that has his fucking name on it, that's not an adventure) and his only purpose in the story is to keep the plot from unravelling after all the edits and rewrites. Also like how the Githyanki guy comes back half mauled to death with zero explanation bc the whole thing with Orin attacking the Creche got cut';

'>>3485948

How did Balduran get back to the mainland from Werewolf Island?';

'>>3485948
>>3485952
"Hey, remember those old games you like? Lol, fuck you"';

'>>3485948
>Also like how the Githyanki guy comes back half mauled to death with zero explanation
You are being attacked by gith killsquads, it stands to reason he is targeted too.';

'>>3485714
>Suppose i played two games that i loved equally, one game rarely gets talked about but the other gets constantly discussed, eventually i will find myself fanboying one game over the other simply because of that, and as a result of investing more and more you become a bigger fan of said game.
So you're the ultimate contrarian. The only thing dividing you and your image of people you're arguing with is that you're on 4chan, where bg3 is shat on and not on, say, reddit where it is lauded for things that were CRPG standard for years now.';

'>>3485599
>Played the game and i did like it. My only problems are that there are too many lgbt stuff and the fact that it was easy to make romances even when you are just being nice.


Just mod them out or make them platonic, I'm new to the the game and playint it for the first time without the most glaring aspects of ESG propaganda being put in my throat.

So far I'm on Act 1 (I believe), just before Moonrise towers, in the dark fog land, after the forge, around level 6. Decided to go to the crèche on the way.

So far I'm not a fan of the writing at all, I can't stand the way most of the characters are written, Astarion especially, being le "quircky smug gay with reddit humor", or Karlach, being le "gym wholesome tomboy with high T" character. All that shit is very Twitter-y, I don't recall having that kind of similar thing in Pillars of Eternity, in which I enjoyed the character writing.

I'm not very advanced in the plot but so far I find it a little nebulous, especially the "guardian" interludes. We will see how it unravels.';

'>>3486011

One more thing : when I say the character writing is very "twitter-y", it's not only confined to the character writing, but to a lot of other situational events, in the way there are set or presented to the player. In most of them I can't help but feel that it's been written by a liberal, either from big coastal cities in the US or big cosmopolitan cities in Europe. All of the tropes are here : vaguely anticapitalist, quite progressive, disdain for hierarchy and social inequality, and so on.

It's glaring to the point I think that BG3 really is a product of its time, I'm not entirely 'immersed' in this game for this reason. It fails to transcend it into something more universal and apolitical (like LOTR for example). Maybe I'm too stunted for this anymore.';

'>>3486011
Watch out for this thread, there’s lots of massive untagged spoilers for your first playthrough. I disliked the game for some of the reasons you’ve alluded to but I hope you have fun';

'>>3486019
>All of the tropes are here : vaguely anticapitalist, quite progressive, disdain for hierarchy and social inequality, and so on.
Uh dude
>It fails to transcend it into something more universal and apolitical (like LOTR for example)
Dude...

Those tropes have always been present, you're just more aware of them today.';

'>>3479401
>Dragon’s Age
Came out in 2009.';

'>>3486019
>vaguely anticapitalist
Not my wholesome chungus capitalism!
>disdain for hierarchy
Where?';

'>>3486027
Yeah, nothing new, it's just the writing chops of the people presenting those tropes are a lot worse because they were raised on works that were inspired by works that were actually written by people with real life experience. We've gone into copy of a copy of a copy territory.';

'>>3479581
>The Warlock?
I find it funny that you mentioned the devil contract he willingly entered and not the fact that the game casually drops onto you he is basically the prince of Baldur’s Gate.';

'>>3486027
>apolitical (like LOTR for example)
Tolkien's views are all over LOTR. Monarchy good, capitalism bad, empires bad, small communities good and so on.';

'>>3482167
what the fuck why is it so big';

'>>3486043
So you don't have to pixelhunt for it?';

'>>3486037
Tolkien on politics are pretty much those of someone who hates politics.
>My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs) – or to 'unconstitutional' Monarchy. I would arrest anybody who uses the word State (in any sense other than the inanimate realm of England and its inhabitants, a thing that has neither power, rights nor mind); and after a chance of recantation, execute them if they remained obstinate! If we could get back to personal names, it would do a lot of good. Government is an abstract noun meaning the an and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people. If people were in the habit of referring to 'King George's council, Winston and his gang', it would go a long way to clearing thought, and reducing the frightful landslide into Theyocracy. Anyway the proper study of Man is anything but Man; and the most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.';

'>>3486044
i thought that thing came out of her head that size i was like how';

'>>3486050
>i thought that thing came out of her head that size i was like how
Aside from their exceptional craftsmanship, holy swords are often indistinguishable from
ordinary magical weapons. A paladin may not become aware of the sword's special powers
until he uses it. In some cases, a paladin may be able to identify a holy sword by its cryptic
inscription (which may require the Ancient Languages proficiency or a friendly mage's read
magic spell to translate). A skilled weaponsmith or sage may also recognize a holy sword.
Occasionally, a holy sword will glow when touched by a paladin, or the paladin's arm may tingle
when he picks it up.
Holy swords are hard to come by, and a paladin rarely finds more than one in his entire
career. Usually, a paladin acquires a holy sword under difficult or extraordinary circumstances.
A holy sword may be part of a venerable red dragon's treasure horde, concealed in a cave atop
a high mountain. A paladin may hear rumors of a holy sword buried in a desert ruins; in fact, the
ruins contain a map that shows the actual location of the holy sword, embedded in a glacier in
an arctic wilderness. If a paladin reaches a high level without acquiring a holy sword, his deity
might direct him to one in a temple on the ocean floor or a treasure chest on a remote island. In
any case, the DM should treat the acquisition of a holy sword as a significant campaign event,
and design the circumstances of its discovery accordingly.';

'Why don’t mind flayer s infect stronger / larger humanoids instead of humans / elves etc?';

'>>3486080
Or blue whales';

'>>3486080
They aren't viable hosts. Tadpoles either can't take root properly, host dies during ceremorphosis or resulting mind flayer is in some way retarded. Larger races are more usefull as slaves.';

'game's worse than divinity original sin 2 for anyone who has actually had sex before';

'>>3486019
The only character I liked in the end was Shadowheart, also there is a difference between the writing in the beta and the final build.';

'>>3486019
>like LOTR for example
>I am the witch king, I can't be killed by old white men!
>Yes, but how about a young girlboss?
>AAAAAAH';

'Is going Durge on the first playthrough fine';

'>>3486195
Yes, unless you want to save it for a replay. But if you'll only play once, go Durge';

'>>3486199
>save it for a replay
Swen told me to do this and I intended to but then the game was disappointing and bad and so I never replayed it. RIP. Maybe I’ll replay it with a custom party when they’re done patching it and adding cut shit back in.';

'>>3485936
Your arguments have been proved to be either false, incoherent or simply things that dont matter, like the argument for revivify allies to remove parasite which have been proven to be incoherent, you base your entire argument around the premise that revive can make parasites go out of their host, but there was NOT a single scene where this was shown as possibility to happen, this is why your argument falls apart.
When you find me one scene where you can kill a host watch their parasite run out and then be able to revive them, then and ONLY then your argument would hold some merit.';

'>>3485963
Lmao no, by the way you are in for a huge shock when you see that EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT the haters try to pull here comes straight from Reddit.
Lmao, so the le hardcore gamers on /vrpg are actually redditors in disguise.
When the game released the biggest amount of bitching came from Redditors and Steam forums, not from actual rpg enthusiasts forums';

'>>3486378
It has gayness and trannies and globohomo gay bear gay sex. And zoomer gameplay.';

'>>3485933
You can switch characters but they will be outside of the conversation(that's how some people do surprise attacks, enter in convo and attack with your other characters). If you want to have a specific character be the one starting convo you should put them as the head of the party and separate the party group.';

'>>3486378
>haters
i can't take anyone seriously who still uses this word';

'>>3486394
What should he say? Skibidi rizzers? Ohioids?';

'>>3486378
>EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT the haters try to pull here comes straight from Redd
Prove it.
>When the game released the biggest amount of bitching came from Redditors
Show 20 posts on reddit bitching that weren't downvoted to oblivion.';

'>>3486394
>hater hates being called a hater';

'>>3486407
probably shouldn't try to categorize disparate people and opinions and lump them as "haters", a term from born from black consumerism and envy in the ghetto, in order to alleviate his discomfort at their criticism
>>3486416
but i like the game';

'>>3486195
Tav for a first playtrough is the best. Durge for a third or forth playtrough.';

'>>3486493
>playtrough
>forth
is this your new gimmick?';

'>>3486503
When i type fast on my old keyboard this tends to happen a lot. I would not call it a gimmick, it is more of a side effect.
>inb4 buy a new keyboard
Fuck that, i'm going to use my old reliable Logitech until it dies completely.';

'>>3486035
Well thats because this is a fairly reasonable background for a hero in a medieval setting. Yes It makes him somewhat special, but a pacto with a hottie demon is what really cements him as a special little snowflake.';

'>>3486841
>fairly reasonable background for a hero in a medieval setting
Before he, like most origin characters, was heavily rewritten before release, his story was that he was LARPing like a hero fighting goblins in the woods because he was actually a fuckup insecure loser, and sold his soul to gain power to be like “fuck you all, I’ll show you who’s a weakling now!”';

'>>3486841
Warlock class in dnd is all about having a pact with a demon or devil or whatever. He is as special as paladin character would.';

'>>3487014
DnD 5th ed paladins:
>um akshually I don’t need a God for my holy divine powers, I am enlightened by my own vow. In this moment I am euphoric';

'>>3487016
Godless clerics were a thing since at least planescape.';

'>>3487016
>DnD5e Paladins are something different and more interesting than slightly more martial clerics
Oh no, woe is you.';

'>>3487016
>>3486884
>warlocks are special snowflakes, paladins are pablo's deus vult fantasies
You niggers don't even pretend to know what you are talking about at this point.';

'I honestly dislike the game mostly because of how annoying it is to play. Every single time I load my savefile I can be 99% sure that at some point something retarded will happen and I will have to reload.
Pathfinding is garbage and it doesn't help that almost every single thing you do in this game is going to get filtered through that.
UI is also generally pretty bad (your companion got seperated because of our garbage pathfining? hope you can notice that his portrait is in a slightly different position).
And the worst thing is that these things compound on each other and turn things that are not problems by itself into problems. I fucking hate every single time I have to reload because of how long it takes. I understand why loadtimes are so long. I understand that there is a pro/con thing going on but I still find it annoying because of how often I have to do it.
The game really isn't interesting enough for me to want to deal with this shit.';

'>>3487014
Damn, DnD class system is not very good, who wouldve guessed';

'>>3487071
Ohhh yeeeees!!! Paladin is now a more material cleric BUT he can be atheist, oh my heckin science this so cool!!! Just like me!';

'>>3487382
Do you ever get tired of being brown?';

'>>3487382
>a more material cleric
What level of retardation are we talking about when somebody can't spell correctly a word laid out in front of him? Sub 60 IQ? Less?';

'>>3487216
Works on my machine';

'>>3487392
blame the autocorrect, Im at work right now';

'>>3487396
so the pathfinding isn't garbage on your machine? or do you have access to a different better ui?
im jealous honestly';

'>>3487404
Don't post while sucking cock.';

'>>3487216
Posts like this just absolutely convince me that no intelligent person dislikes bg3.';

'>>3487415
>you are le low iq
ah yess the peak of critique
Feel free to absolutely destroy my post. It should be easy for such an intelligent individual.';

'>>3487016
Except for 4E where they explicitly get a piece of their deity in them, Paladins have always been like that.';

'>>3487427
Because dnd was always satanic garbage made by homosexuals. Just because its shilled by media now dosn't mean its not.';

'>>3487433
Retard.';

'>>3487415
>t. midwit desperately seeking to reaffirm himself';

'>>3487445
>midwit
Only retards use that word.';

'>>3487451
>t. +/- 0.1 sigma';

'>>3487405
The pathfinding is fine, too god even that it trivializes a couple of environmental puzzles
UI is easily fixed with mods or playing with controller';

'>>3479879
It may not be a masterpiece, but with the exception of Rome Expeditions and MotB, I can't remember having so much fun and feeling "fulfilled" with the choices presented to my MC.
Playing as a Redeemed Durge was great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evs8wrZhZdw';

'>>3487470
>Durge
do people use this retarded shorthand to offset how gay "dark urge" sounds?';

'>>3487553
Technically it should be THE DARK URGE. Since it is not just any dark urge.';

'>>3487553
I guess we're lucky. It could have been Mobo or Hurder instead.';

'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsDz-MTdNeE


games a masterpiece chuds are just seething. If Dragon Age origins came out today /vrpg/ would call it woke for having gay romances in it';

'>>3487734
>ctrl+f search "woke"
>only 3 results
>none of those posts are even shitting on the game
are you okay anon?';

'>>3487669
>THE DARK URGE
sounds like a scat fetish movie';

'>>3479623
>>3479623
These aren't transexuals.
They've been transformed by magic completely into something else.
A transexual would be closer represented by a mind flayer that had male equipment yet forced you to accept their version of events and attempted to control you via thought and social pressure.

It's not even a trans dragon for example, it's still a dragon even when it is in human form because the human form is a temporary magical construct. People accept this reality in that world because it is real and demonstrable in front of them.

They might address that dragon as he or she because the form matched the gender last I knew of D&D rules. If the dragon was a good type such as silver, gold, brass etc. They might be inclined to give it the representation it desired at the moment.

If it was evil such as red, blue, black etc. They would probably even call it 'dragon' in human form because they would not respect its efforts to control them.

A flesh golem could be constructed with different genitalia, surgery, and magically animated and it would be referred to as it, unless the necromancer used dark magic to mind control your pronouns.

Let's say it was a magical cursed belt, and the fighter still felt like a man cursed to transform. His compatriots would likely be inclined to refer to him as he, because they would respect his real predicament that he didn't sign up for, and that he isn't trying to control them about it.

Things to think about.';

'>>3487763';

'>>3487763
i kinda see where you are coming from here. it's why i don't read gender bender h-doujins, shit is just gay.';

'>>3479589
I've played at a lot of 3.0 and 3.5 tables. The stuff is there but you're supposed to make the conscious choice not to write a fucking special snowflake because nobody likes a Drizzt player. Its about having the options and exercising self-control.

>t. Played at the same 3.5 table for 20 years';

'>>3487766
I think anon points to the fact, that using our real logic o a reality where magic (or magic like tech) exist is mostly pointless. FR is a place where shapeshifters exists and anybody determined and lucky enough can learn to alter self, or pay a wizard to do it for him.
For us man wanting to be a woman is a pointless fight against reality, for level 5 wizard it is as serious decision as for us is choosing color of shirt we are going to wear today.
Although I don't think there was a game or other work of fiction (outside of mad rants on /tg) that tried to widely consider implications of wide access to magic.';

'>>3487925
Exactly this.
One, maaaaybe two, of those options is usually good.
Like being an elf, or a dwarf in the human centric world.
A good writer will tell you how hard it is to write a believable alien perspective.
It's when you're tragic backstory + demon pact + magical artifact organ replacement at level 1 + tadpole in the head + daddy issues + conflict storyline against other party member + folk hero of fame and legend at level 1 things quickly get stupid.

Larian actually has good character dialogue, great even, and some great ideas unfortunately they don't have that self control and hence the landslide of reddit clownshit goes on top.';

'>>3487949
>Although I don't think there was a game or other work of fiction (outside of mad rants on /tg) that tried to widely consider implications of wide access to magic.
Part of the general decline of fantasy writing. First thing to do is figure out the laws of magic in your world what is the price of magic, and the social costs to it are part of that.
Then frankly they should be kept obfuscated and mysterious, barely explained until the time is right unless your book/campaign is literally about that. You can usually get a good story when you purposefully break the rules. Example: Master of the Five Magics by Lyndon Hardy.';

'>>3487763
>A transexual would be closer represented by a mind flayer that had male equipment
Mind flayers have no "equipment" thoughever';

'>>3487974
>Master of the Five Magics by Lyndon Hardy
Loved that book as a kid.';

'>>3487968
>One, maaaaybe two, of those options is usually good.
>Like being an elf, or a dwarf in the human centric world.
Dwarfs and elfs were a core race since first edition. Game is based in Faerun, they couldn't make it low fantasy just because it would make you in particular happy.';

'>>3479821
>The initial plot with Daisy was far more clever than the “Emperor” horse shit we got. People say “but the twist only works once if you don’t know it” but that’s equally true of the final version of the game, so.
I don't simp for EA but after learning this post release I agree, it sounded much more dramatically impactful in the original format.
I suspect it was a combination of gooner simps and political simps that influenced them to drop good drama for crowd pleasing or whatever.

Still like the game in spite of all the weird belgian/plebbit descendants of Ed "Dare Ye Enter My Magical" Greenwood (He still wrote an underdark knockoff setting about blacksmith domming a drow that was quite good later) and lefty baggage but ofc it's good in spite of those things, not because of them.';

'>>3488264
Listen to what you're saying
>core race
>low fantasy
Your mind is seeped in too many generations of plebbit level bad writing is the problem, and you're translating what I'm really saying into terms your familiar with.
Overuse of familiarity with derivate ideas about fantasy and magic is the problem I am defining in the first place.';

'>>3488269
Listen to what I'm saying you fucking nigger: larian got the dnd license and made a game based on it. You want them to make a game in New York but not include skyscrapers because your dad molested you on 9/11.';

'>>3488280
I like that I've made enough rational points to where you've lost it and devolved into buzzwords that in no way resemble any of the valid points that I have made. Thanks for being broken by me and proving who the real schizo is here, lefty cultist.';

'>>3488286
>bringing in politics out of nowhere unprompted
You are the one who is buckbroken by trannies, you absolute retard.';

'>>3488289
You want a better game, I told you how to get one based on the rules of literature. I'm not here to coddle your consumer trained preconceptions about derivative hack settings.';

'>>3488291
...do you actually think I'm the one that made baldur's gate? Is this what /lit/ does to someone's brain?';

'>>3488293
>muh low fantasy
Forgotten Realms is a big place, no one forced them to open with airships and outer planes, and add things like Wyll who is like Barnum and Bailey multiplied by Penn and Teller squared by those fags that got mauled by their tigers and Cirque Du Soleil in one man, not to mention tieflings everywhere etc.

You're just here to defend it because maybe you never read a book or know how fantasy is actually supposed to work, you just want more lightshows and me to shut up about their obvious political initiatives. These aren't complex defenses equal to my complex criticisms.

Maybe you can concentrate a bit and retort me with something that isn't utterly predictable in your next feeble salvo.';

'>>3488299
Do you think you are still and the highschool debate club? I'm not gonna throw any "salvos" at you. I'm gonna call you a dumb nigger who spent too much time among faggots on /lit/ and brown people on /pol/.';

'>>3488300
That's about the level of discourse I can expect from a dumb millennial. You're boring and I'm done with you now.';

'>>3479400
Mod list?';

'>>3483986
>Animigger thinks he is not an npc.
Poerty';

'>>3485501
Holy shit you are an actual redditor';

'>>3486378
Nice gaslight nigger';

'>>3488299
>how fantasy is supposed to work
Fantasy is shit outside of tolkien and maybe leguin/pratchett
If you think pulp fantasy from the 70s onwards has any merit then youre the retard anon';

'>>3479581
that's just typical american popular character tropes anywhere, any series. it makes me vomit.

less charged character starting points and arcs would be more believable. this hypercharged dogshit is just too much.';

'>>3488264
Sure they were core races, but the world was clearly a human-centric one of sword &sorcery. The requirements to be a dwarf or Elf were much higher than to be a simple human class, and there were plenty of limitations that worked towards making them feel special.
Most npcs in the modules were humans, simple peasants, lords and bureaucrats; some were witches, yes, but few and unique. Most of the sorcery was done by the players or by evil creatures.
Old D&D settings were much different that modern day forgotten realms, a thing that only started changing in later Ad&d.';

'>>3488382
I like all three of those authors, but the fact that they're all you can mention, the only standouts in all this time proved my point for me. You just told me everything is derivative, which is what I said.
>Gene Wolf
>Fred Saberhagen
>even Piers fucking Anthony, great grandfather of Reddit
Those guys beat this shit I'm seeing.
Again I like BG3, it got a lot right, but certain elements don't get weeded out that would improve things greatly by their absence because people are willing to defend derivative reddit bullshit against le chuds or whatever.';

'>>3479581
We are all unique, everyone more unique than the last.
You have to constantly one-up the last character.';

'>>3488446
Oh Im nta youre arguing with, I just think its asinine to expect videogame writing to be on par with the "great" fantasy writers or even great literature in general.
BG3 reaches about the same level of quality as did the IE games in the writing department as far as im concerned';

'>>3488446
So you would like bg3 if it had more cunny?';

'>>3488452
>BG3 reaches about the same level of quality as did the IE games in the writing department as far as im concerned
I like the IE games but most of them have writing in the range of “mediocre” to “average” just like most games in general. They’re video games, they have a story and characters but they’re not the focus, the focus is the game and the story and characters are supposed to do their job and get out of the way.

BG3, by contrast, has extremely cringe-inducing and terrible writing that’s constantly being bad enough to break your immersion and distract you from the game. This is a far worse sin than merely “not being great”.';

'>>3488512
What if BG4 was about Moll's gang?';

'>>3479386
It was written incredibly stupidly.';

'>>3488568
11/10, game of the year all year. Conservative kino is back, west is not fallen anymore.';

'>>3488518
Bg1 and 2 were full of cringe lolsorandom humour endemic in the late 90s and early 2000s. Noober/neeber might as well have come out of "dude wheres my car"
You are wearing rose colored glasses';

'>>3488637
wasn't noober based on an actual forum troll?';

'>>3488637
>You are wearing rose colored glasses
I’ve replayed them within the last year, and I called their writing somewhere between “mediocre to average” yet you’re responding as if I had said they were great and unimpeachable. Go compare and contrast Noober in BG1 with “Noober, but some YouTuber” in BG3 and tell me with a straight face that it’s not far worse.';

'>>3488737
>I had said they were great and unimpeachable.
I did no such thing
I was responding to:
> has extremely cringe-inducing and terrible writing that’s constantly being bad enough to break your immersion

>contrast Noober in BG1 with “Noober, but some YouTuber” in BG3
they're both cringe thank you for conceding
>far worse
how it's the same thing
>cringe, but old :)
>cringe, but new :(';

'>>3488743
>they're both cringe
not all cringe is created equal. first you must show that they are equivalent with a side by side and comprehensive comparison';

'>>3488761
>nuh uh doesn't count you have to make le video essay to prove it
kys';

'>>3488743
Listen whippersnapper. My shit is stuff and your stuff is shit.';

'>>3488777
video not required. screenshots and a sentence or two of analysis for each will do. :)

otherwise, concession accepted.';

'>dog companions in BG3: 1
>dog companions in BG1: 0
>dog companions in BG2: 0
it's clear what the superior game is';

'>>3488782
BG3 doesn't have Jan Jansen. BG2 does. BG3 is less cringy.';

'I killed all the trannies I could find in the game still got letters from them when I finished this playthrough 0/10';

'>>3488787
That's very brave of you to post your pictures anon. Good for you for living your best life!';

'>>3488786
not to mention most of the evil companions in BG1 and 2 are megacringe
WHy would anyone ever tag along with xzar or montaron?';

'>>3488786
i never even met him in the game. :)';

'>>3488791
but the bg3 companions are gigacringe.';

'>>3488794
And everyone who isn't gay never encounter the gay bear scene.';

'>>3488796
BG3 companions are 100x less cringe than BG1 and 2 by virtue of not talking like an american renfaire larper';

'>>3488799
The Sword Coast accent is canonically an American California accent thoughever.';

'>>3488797
i imagine most people have seen it, because they marketed the game with it. gay bear is at least funny, it's even poking fun at the 'bear" large hirsute gay men fetish, shadowheart is cringe as fuck though.';

'>>3488800
>nooo this game is too woketard california millenial speak
>it would have been better if everyone had a california accent
I can't keep up with the cope around bg3 anymore, which is it?
I can't';

'>>3488799
yeah, instead they talk like a game of thrones extra. soulless cringe.';

'>>3488802
life is confusing when you see other people as a blob, isn't it? i'd suggest staying away from anonymous discussion. have you tried reddit? you can see people's post history and call them out for actual hypocrisy.';

'>>3488805
you seem to know a lot about this reddit website';

'>>3488800
>The Sword Coast accent is canonically an American California accent thoughever.
>anon wants more Amerislop voiceacting
Sod off cunt. Baldur's Gate 3 has some of the best voiceacting in a videogame ever.';

'>>3488816
yes, i know a lot about the internet.';

'>>3488817';

'>>3488336
Found the redditor, lol';

'this site is full of babies honestly.
I should have left with Moot back in 2014.

Anyone not retarded willing to give recs based off BG3? I really enjoyed the combat system and the branching character paths. Also enjoyed just how good it looked overall, especially with mods.';

'>>3489691
Dos2 for combat';

'>>3489693
Picked it up, I feel mixed on it but it may have been the origin I picked, so I might start a new game. I was playing the redhead with the demon inside her and disliked how the game was goading me into being a snarky asshole. I like playing goodie two shoes for games like these though.
Otherwise the bit I saw of combat was pretty good.';

'>>3489691
For combat: not much, there are very few turnbased RPGs with combat this good.

Wasteland 3
Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2
Jagged Alliance 2 and 3 (if you consider them RPG)

For the branching paths:
Pathfinder Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous
Fallout New Vegas
Alpha Protocol (beware janky as fuck and barely playable)
Age of Decadence
Tyranny

Looks good:
Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2


Those are games that can do good in certain aspects, but if you want total overall package, there are only few RPGs that can match BG3.';

'>>3489719
Thanks for the recs, I tried pathfinder but was really annoyed by the movement system and how it felt to play overall. I’ll give the rest a look though.

I guess the issue is BG3 really was the total package. Here’s hoping it inspires more games to try and strive for such a thing.';

'>>3489719
I personally would condense this list to:
>Wasteland 3
>Divinity:Original Sin 2
>Jagged Alliance 3
>Pathfinder:Kingmaker
>Tyranny';

'>>3489691
>this site is full of babies honestly.
Yeah, people sperging out because someone said mean things about their favorite games is pretty babyish, I agree
>I should have left with Moot back in 2014.
What's stopping you from leaving now, faggot?
Anyway, that other Anon is right. JA2 and 3 are fucking great. And they're not CRPGs, but if you want more of the combat, pick up the XCOM games if you haven't already. And as for branching stories, check out Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines';

'>>3489705
>I like playing goodie two shoes
well lohse is probably the most 'goody 2 shoes" and if she's already too spicy you might want to go custom yeah';

'I guess the problem is Larian did not take interactivity even FURTHER. The issue is things must be one way or another, either the tieflings kill the druids or have the adventurers fix their mistakes OR let the druids kick out the Tieflings to leave them at the mercy of the goblins( which understandably, they have every right to ).

The conflict in the grove here is that both leaders are quite selfish. We the player should be allowed to confront Zevlor about the children being thieving cunts and endlessly enabling his kin's behaviour will be their undoing. We should be able to confront Kagha about her power grab and convince the grove's elders to demote her and change course.

One crucial choice is we the player should be allowed to to is to bring the tieflings and druids together and convince them that they need to work together to solve the real problem. An army of goblins RIGHT AT THEIR FUCKING DOORSTEP. Which should lead to a far cooler outcome. An alliance siege of the goblin camp where the Adventurers land the killing blow on their leadership. Inverting the absolute's invasion plan on the grove.

TLDR: Act 1 should be about bringing people together to solve real problems over their petty squabbles.

p.s. I hate these stupid captchas.';

'>>3491155
>needs even MORE interactivity!
Ain't that the case always, sister. A bit unrealistic though.';

'>>3479394
this
fpbp';

'>>3489691
>Anyone not retarded willing to give recs based off BG3
IWD2 with the EE mod (mods are mandatory and substantial fixes)
Temple of Elemental Evil with Co8 and temple+ (mods are mandatory and substantial fixes)
Dawnsbury Days
Knights of the Chalice 2

Those are the *good* dnd/dnd adjacent crpgs. Like half of act 2 in DOS2 is sort of like BG3 in terms of map/quest design but implemented way worse and the rest if the game is bad, as well as the combat being some of the worst ever. All the owlcat games are just terrible and I would never ever recommend them to anyone. PoE is a hyper autism game that must be played on PotD to be enjoyed, don't play it unless you played IWD2EE and enjoyed it because it's more of that.

Other noteworthy games:
Dungeon Rats
Age of Decadence
Jagged Alliance 2 (3 is extremely bad, do not recommend at all)
Wizardry 7
Grimrock 2
You may enjoy NWN modules like Aielund, but I've always found aurora engine to be bad';

'>>3479401
Dragon Age characters are far more likable and endearing. Morrigan is not particularly likable as a personality, but she is genuinely one of the best characters in the history of western RPGs.';

'>>3491286
>Dragon Age characters are far more likable and endearing
No, Alistair is so bad he might actually be symbolic of everything wrong with that era of rpgs, and the rest of the characters just kind of blend into the background. I feel dragon age is basically the western equivalent of fujoshit.';

'>>3491279
>mods are mandatory and substantial fixes
Stopped reading here';

'>>3491155
>the problem
Yes and also a haptic + holographic interface should project Karlach into my bed IRL so she can ride me and bring me tendies and tuck me in at night.
What a crap game that it doesn't do these library lists of things I just pulled out of my ass, guess I'll play Outer Realms again instead to own the chuds and strike a blow against fascism and capitalism.';

'>>3491434
Yes, the value in these games are that they have been worked on for 20 years, and because they were born flawed the focus was on actually improving the games instead of just adding aids like SCS. You're free not to play some of the best CRPGs ever made, that's on you.';

'>>3491279
NTA, How is Knights of the Chalice 2?
I love BG3 and im interested in trying it, what should i know before getting into it? is it extremely unforgiving? what are the main draw behind it? story? gameplay? exploration?
I saw it on Steam but its super niche and has low play count so im not sure if its for me, i also didnt play the first one, is it a must or you can start with 2?';

'>>3491480
>NTA, How is Knights of the Chalice 2?
It's grognard battle chess. KotC1 and Dawnsbury Days are cut from a similar cloth and much cheaper(And simpler) so try those first. 2 is also extremely derivative of ToEE, so if you don't like ToEE you probably won't like kotc2.';

'>>3491473
>Yes
Stopped reading here';

'>>3491435
>Yes and also a haptic + holographic interface should project Karlach into my bed IRL so she can ride me and bring me tendies and tuck me in at night.
I will never forgive Larian for dennying me this simple patch!';

'>>3479623
It's forgotten realms dipshit, you can't throw a stone without it colliding into the heaving bosom of a former man

>>3487763
>These aren't transexuals.
>They've been transformed by magic
Which is literally what transsexuals would do if there was magic instead of medicine

You guys twist yourselves into some silly ass knots';

'>>3491289
The only thing fujo about it is being popular with women, which is because the writing isn't pants shittingly emotionally retarded at all points.';

'>>3491519
It comes from mythology. Tiresias was a woman for 7 years, Loki got knocked up in female form. Same shit with animal-fucking: Zeus as a bull and Europa, turks being descendants of a she-wolf fucked by a shota and so on.';

'>>3491531
Gender gending and androgyny are classics for a reason. Getting butthurt about them in fantasy is like complaining about the existence of magic or knights; after a certain point you need to ask yourself if you even like the thing you're claiming to like.';

'>>3491526
>The only thing fujo about it is being popular with women
The writers are literally all gay guys and fat women. Its a fujo game from top to bottom. Only a woman could tolerate the atrocious map and quest design, because their brains don't even take such things into consideration. They cannot understand males.';

'>>3491539
You just make it sound like only gay men and fat women can write compelling fantasy, which is a ridiculous excuse for straight men because we know everyone can do it too if they're held to the same standards. Frankly I think your heteropessism is a tragic reflection of the general state of male creativity.';

'>>3491543
Stright men aren't alowed to write fantasy in the west, only in Asia. That's why Japanese games are censored in the west.';

'Men play the character in a game. Women make themselves the character.
That's the source of this shitty writing.';

'>>3491548
Theres too much slop out there for that utopia to be true';