'trying too hard';

'>>1707911
Civilization III was pure soul';

'Was there a cutscene if you beat all the scenarios?';

'>>1707911
>Can't stack your units with your allies' units
>No coordination of war plans
>No loaning
>Barebones tile improvements
>No flexible social policies
>No tech or wonders quotes
>Still renders instead of wonder videos
>No UN resolutions
>Diplomatic victory is decided by one civ - one vote rule instead of population size
>Barbarians can't capture cities and produce more barbarians
>Wounded units heal if they level up in combat
>Bronze Age chariots and tanks have exactly the same HP and firepower
SMAC is so vastly superior to Civ.';

'>>1707911
Why is hex grid cancer?';

'>>1708242
I found smac boring af with its shitty UI, shitty graphic, and it being too unappealing to bother learning. Uninstalled after 10min. Not sure if I remember but you can only make a couple units at most and they're somehow tied to the city or sth? Weird ass shit.';

'>>1708242
SMAC is more civ 2.5 than 3 and >>1708261 is not wrong, there's a gem in there but the UI is dated like a mummy, very hard to get into, a remaster just changing the UI and cleaning the graphics is long overdue';

'>>1707911
Dunno man, I'm not 50 yo, wouldn't know.
>mfw civ franchise dies with the old farts mass passing away
Just hurry, please, I can't stand these posts of LE OLD GAME GOOD';

'>>1708269
>SMAC is more civ 2.5 than 3
Except it has vastly richer options and nuances than Civ 3 which is a downgrade from it.
>>1708261
>Not sure if I remember but you can only make a couple units at most and they're somehow tied to the city
You can produce as much units as you want but each one consumes 1 mineral from the base it's built from. You can mitigate it by adopting a social policy increasing your society's suppport for troops, reassigning units to other cities, installing clean reactors which remove support cost from units, making a dedicated industrial center by operating a mineral outcropping/borehole in your city radius by a citizen or outside of it via a supply crawler.

UI is not harder than Civ 2 but due to more options, you have to get acquainted with hotkeys to cut time on context menus.';

'>>1708272
Die cunt.
You and your kind can go give each other onions latte coffee enemas.
Your a faggot.
Pic related, you and your filthy generation of casuals.';

'>>1707911
said none ever';

'>>1708259
It's just a dumb gimmick added only for the sake of being a novelty for the new game (novelty =consumer selling point as believed by their marketing expert). Zero advantages. Smaller number of neighbors. Can go straight in only 6 directions instead of 8. Smaller number of tiles. Things are and feel more cramped. You're literally looking at fucking honeycombs.
>>1708272
>old bad grandpa!
kek retard';

'>>1708290
oh right... in squares you can move 8 ways
hex really is a gimmick';

'>>1708261';

'>>1707911
>>1707950
>>1708059
>>1708064
>>1708242
>>1708259
>>1708261
>>1708269
>>1708272
>>1708277
>>1708279
>>1708283
>>1708290
>>1708313
>>1709007
fuck you';

'I have only played 2, 4, 5, and SMAC.
SMAC, 2, 5, 4 is the order of my favorites. I don't know why people fight about them all of the time. The best Civ game is Alpha Centauri by a country mile.';

'>>1707911
Did you skip over civ 4? It's almost exactly like civ 3 except a few minor tweaks, most of which are improvements.';

'I still have the thick instructions manual somewhere';

'>>1709298
>skipped 6
based
smac is better than most 4x's, not just civ games';

'>>1709301
none of which are improvements*
all of which are blunders and downgrades*
my bad, typo.';

'>>1707911
The series peaked in an alternative reality, where there is Civ 3.5, combining elements from SMAC, Civ 3 and 4
Also: almost entire list of your arguments can be applied to ANY pre-5 Civ game';

'>>1707911
To play devil's advocate:
>No social policies
Both SMAC and 4 had those and they were good.
>Best game pacing
The game is horrendously biased toward absurd early game expansion, even by Civ standards. Not even 2 requires such aggressive expansion until about 1000 AD
>No punishment for expansion and wide play
What is corruption and ONC or OCN, depending on how you abbreviate it
>Have large ancient era empires
MUST have, rather than can have
>Can vassalize civs
Not in 3
>Can disable all animations.
This is actually a horrible idea, for AI is going to sneak way easier on you without animations. On the flip-side, having to watch animation for 40 units smacking each other is super-annoying

You've missed more important shit
>Civ bonuses are pre-set of options, rather than everyone having some random power
>AI can play the game without cheating
>AI cheats like crazy despite being able to play the game
>Units have expiration date, rather than endless upgrades';

'>>1709461
Most of the "blunders" are subjective
The way expansion works is more balanced in 4
You're not ass raped by failing at building a wonder because you get fail gold
Map Regen button so you do t have to stick with a horrendous start or go back to main menu
Changes with the way artillery works
Most of the nitpicks in the OP don't even apply to civ 4 and a lot of those changes being complained about didn't happen till five.
My least favorite change is the way armies work in civ 4 and not being able to add settlers (and workers?) to the population or resettle a city. Overall civ 3 and 4 are very similar and two of my all time favorite games.';

'>>1709563
>>1709479
Subjective it is for sure. You don't get raped if you don't complete wonders btw you retain your production shields and you can use them on another project and yes you can fucking vassalize motherfuckers in 3. 3 is far from perfect it's just that all others are dogshit. That doesn't mean that making dogshit games is a bad thing. Dogshit games are more popular with most players so firaxis has still done the right thing you gotta rake in the money.
As for 4 the inability to insta zoom/pan lands it into the trashcan straight away. It ends there for me. It makes you wait it goes into the trash simple as. You wanna disable animations? Bruh. If you can put up with that the next thing you'll find is it lacks borders when you're zoomed out. The fucking game won't show how countries are shaped. There's no reason to look deeper it fails at the basics.';

'>>1710126
>and yes you can fucking vassalize motherfuckers in 3
No you can't.
Have you considered playing the game you are masturbating to?';

'>>1710126
Vassals are a feature that's exclusive to 4.
The only thing you can do with other civ in 3 is a military alliance and a defense pact, depending on how much you want to involve others into your wars';

'>>1710154
I did. I turned the zulu n*gger into a vassal upon defeating him. He was my bitch for the rest of the run and automatically fought alongside me.';

'>>1710168
>I play this game in my head, rather than on my PC';

'>>1710126
When zoomed out, select culture view to see you borders.
Dont shit about the greatest game you never played.
Retard.
Civ 4 = Civ 3 > civ 2 > Civ 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
New civ trash';

'>>1712020
Civ 2 > Civ 3';

'unpopular opinion here:

The best game is always the one you started with';

'>>1715431
This is a very Reddit post.';

'>>1715431
I've started with 2. 3 is better. 4 is between the two, since it has bunch of frustrating changes.
SMAC is the best, and I didn't play it until 2009';

'>>1707911
>everything removed was SOUL
>everything added is cancer';

'>>1710161
>Vassals are a feature that's exclusive to 4.
They appeared in SMAC first. If you beat a faction militarily hard enough they would sue for peace swearing pact of brotherhood with the caveat they would have to act, vote, and give you anything you demanded from them. Not the most useless thing in the world (free extra vote for resolutions, trade income for your cities).';

'>>1707911
I started playing 2 as a kid but 3 was my favourite. Never got into SMAC until adulthood because sci-fi wasn't interesting to me on it's own and I wasn't terminally online so nobody shilled it to me.
I don't know if it's the best but it certainly was the last Civilization that felt like it was simulating in a gamefied way rather than just being a game.';

'>>1715431
Nah, I started with IV and learned that V is the ultimate masterpiece civ';

'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQItkTkOmFM';

'>>1715473
go away reddit poser';

'Can't block civs from asking for map knowledge over and over again.';

'I just think sitting in a mountain and doubling your defence + two turns of fortification is really overpowered. And you even haven't built a fortress there yet with a sitting general';

'>>1716313
just ignore and go around or nuke';

'>>1707911
>Surely I missed more stuff.
colonists and workers can be settled in a city, becoming city population. city population is converted into colonists and workers when these units are built
we love the king day';

'>>1709301
Yeah, I prefer civ 4 the most, but I gotta say I do like civ 3’s longer feeling war scale.';

'I can still hear the spearman sound in my head.';

'>>1709301
civ4 was the last good one, but its gameplay is so bloated compared to 3, which makes it harder for the AI, so the AI has to get crazy bonuses to compensate';

'>>1716866
>gameplay is so bloated
Examples?';

'>>1716866
>which makes it harder for the AI, so the AI has to get crazy bonuses to compensate
Lmao. AI in Civ 3 also gets bonuses on higher difficulties, and maphacks on top of that.';

'>>1707911
>The only way to top it is with better ai. Chatbots are great at role playing nowadays so them playing other civ leaders and you being able to talk diplomacy with them and play with/against them is the next step.
I've literally been saying this for months on /vst/ now but every time I mention it I get some sweaty nerd talking about how it's a shit idea because no one wants realistic AI and they'd rather have simple gamified bullshit instead of an actual immersive experience.';

'>>1715431
but i started with civ i on my atari st and iii is my fav';

'>>1707911
Civ3 will always be my favorite, but the first that isn't shit? I loved Civ2...';

'>>1715810
>t. never played SMAC';

'>>1707911
3 wins due to following
>More complex than 2
>Works on a toaster, can even run on Win95
>Has borders and resources
>Doesn't have the super-broken caravans from 2
>Can plant trees
>Has artillery units
>No bullshit mechanics from 4
And controversial part
>Has eras
I know people hate those, but I always found them to be a good mechanic, for it enforces a specific pace to the game, rather than allowing you to go for era-busting cheese like 2';

'I really liked Civ3. Never had a chance to play the expansion(s?), just base Civ3. Strategic resources were such a cool mechanic compared to previous Civ games, definitely one of the most important changes they made to the series as a whole.';

'>>1717972
It may be an unorthodox opinion, but I like the vanilla more. Stuff added in the expansions is just bloat. Although, new civs are neat for novelty sake.';

'>>1707911
Where to get it now?';

'>>1718607
Jokes on you, I still have my physical copy. Sucks to be a torrenter like you, at least I own my games instead of stealing them, no licenses, live services, or Denuvo bullshit for me.';

'>>1718607
Pirate a gog release. The steam one as always has bunch of annoying bugs they've caused during their work and also mixes modern era descriptions for techs.

>>1718722
... the game still has none of that, you deft cunt';

'>>1718579
The two new traits added in expansions alone make it up for how shitty all the other changes were. I also like you can ignore enitely Repubic/Monarchy if you plan to do early conques and just go through Feudalism instead. It's a shitty government (essentially a reverse Monarchy), but it works wonders in terms of aggressive play';

'>>1715431
I started with civ 2 but even I can say tha technically speaking civ 6 with mods is better. I just don't know the mods for civ 2.

So speaking technically, no nostalgia glasses, counting mods and even completely overhauls, wich Civ is the best and why?

I guess most people will say Civ 5 with Vox Populi.';

'>>1720886
Nostalgia is a meme made up by people to cope with the fact that most new games they bought are worse than old games.';

'>>1720896
Whatever, wich civ is best and why?';

'>>1720901
6 of course. You should play only the latest and the newest like everybody else because newest is best.';

'>>1707911
Nah, it peaked at Civ 4 because that's when we got the Colonization remake.';

'>>1721019
I'm one of the few people who actually loved it, barely even touched normal civ iv but racked countless hours on col';

'>>1720886
>I guess most people will say Civ 5 with Vox Populi.
Civ 5 fags aren't people nor human

As to your question:
Toss a coin between 3 and 4. Then you will know which game is second to SMAC';

'>>1721019
>>1721324
What's good about colonization? I've only played the original and bts.';

'>>1721403
Wich has the best mods between 3 and 4? Civ 5 has many problems, what saves it, is the mod scene, you can't be serious if you think 3 and 4 vanilla are better thant 5 with mods.';

'*laughs in civ 2 throne room*';

'>>1721615
>Wich has the best mods between 3 and 4?
4. How is this even a question? Literally the first, second and last reason why 4 is good are mods. Vanilla is a mixed bag, but the modding capacity of that game is beyond sword - it's beyond insane.

>>1721627
You should be laughing in king, king.';

'>>1721541
Nothing, but fags like to meme about total overhaul mods to it. Civ4Col is a genuinely shitty game. If you can't stomach original Col, there is FreeCol to fix that and then you move on with your life.';

'>>1707911
>No <good things> cancer
Very persuasive. All the mainline Civilization games except the first one are good you fucking contrarian.';

'>>1708290
>Zero advantages
It's less game-y, more realistic, diagonals don't cause a cheese advantage, AoE attacks are more even etc. There's a reason every CRPG with grid uses them over squares.
It's in fact one of the things that was absolutely an improvement with V.';

'>>1721717
>>1721719
>npc calls someone contrarian
lmao. what does gamey even mean if all games use the hex grid? the other 2 points have nothing to do with the grid but are an implementation detail of the game's distance or movement cost calculation which can be chosen. your hex grid has the same unevenness problem if you want to move in orthogonal directions which is a lot more important in many real world scenarios. the only positive point is that the spacing between adjacent tiles is the same. if that is more important to you then the hex grid is better. it is not an improvement when it comes to shaping terrain. a hexagon has sharper edges by than an octagon, although you could double the sides of a hexagon too to make a smoother dodecagon with lines drawn through tiles but I haven't seen that done in games.';

'There is no reason to pick democracy over Communism, Sid was a red ass kissing commie back then.';

'>>1721646
>>1707911
That's sad, I've played CIV IV, I was really looking foward to try CIV III but isn't there any overhaul like Realism Invictus or similar?
I've gonna be honest the CIV IV art direction just doesn't do it for me, I was really hoping CIV III had some similar alternatives in the modding scene.

If there is, I'd really appreciate a suggenstion.';

'>>1725115
Well, there's this mod:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/2021-expansion.28973/';

'>>1725115
If you can find Ka-El's double your pleasure mod, it has a lot of content, maybe too much';

'>>1708290
honestly I don't really care either way. After a decade of playing with squares and a decade and a half or so of playing with hex's the hex's don't really seem any better.';

'Hexes are balanced in all directions while squares are more powerful on the diagonals.
Ergo hexes are superior';

'>>1707911
>The only way to top it is with better ai

Well they did
https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/community-patch-project.497/';

'>30 turn wonder
>Two turns before completion someone else got it
>All those wasted shields into the trash.
No worst frustrating experience';

'>>1730872
>30 turn wonder
there is your problem.';