'The elite strongest of karate don't limit themselves to karate competitions
Kyokushin is for the cowards to remain safely in their bubble
Not just karate artists but all real fighters will step out into an open style format

If all you do is practice against your own people you'll ever become effective';

'>>186132
Oyama got beaten by a elbow';

'>>186119
Because karate isn't actual fighting, same with any other "traditional" art';

'>>186119
I dono why you use that as the example because Andy beat him under the limited rules and also became an accomplished kickboxer. But the answer to your question is that Muay Thai is a very serious combat sport probably second only to boxing in terms of talent. With competitors who make their entire livelihood off of it and will fight hundreds of times in a lifetime. Even if something like kyokushin or Tae Kwon do had the exact same rule set as Muay Thai it wouldn't be trained with the same seriousness as poor Thai people who need to fight and also place side beta and fix fights through gambling to even make ends meets lol.';

'>>186119
Because after training kyokushin your distance management and head protection reflexes fucked up forever.';

'Kyokushin created by pro wrestler.';

'It's like taking a trap shooter and putting them up against a marksman U.S. Ranger in a shootout to the death.';

'>>186195
>>186244
But Kyokushin it's supposed to be the hardest japanese martial art, There is really no point of comparison?';

'>>186452
Says who? Judo is trained much more seriously in Japan than kyokushin. To be fair kyokushin is a hard martial art but it is levels below muay thai even in training intensity let alone the syle itself. Also Japan has a very serious kickboxing scene in of itself. Many of those athletes are essentially fed into it through knockdown karate styles like kyokushin. You can think of it like wrestling to mma competition in the USA. But obviously on its own something with kata and no face punches in competition is not even comparable to muay thai lol.';

'>>186119
They don't and you're being a faggot acting like it's always like that. I am not googling shit for you faggot. You are wrong, figure it out, or keep being a cunt. Idgaf. Convinced half the threads on this board are just neet posers & trolls.';

'Softly reminder Kyokushin guys beat muay thai guys in their first encounter.';

'>>186827
The two thai fighters weren't actual muay thai fighters, the only real one won by a elbow.';

'>>186119
Because Karate is not a complete fighting art. Karate is just one of the modules of a Bushi.
>Judo/jujtsu
One-on-one wrestling
>Iaido
Quick draw in specific settings
>Kenjutsu
Combat with a sword
>Aikido
How to cope with multiple opponents and learn how to move and push them around
>Karate
How to punch and kick when wielding a sword

All of the above together mean something. Individually, except for Judo, they mean little. You can do only one as a sport, but it won't make you a warrior.';

'>>189319
>not a complete fighting art
Neither is muy thai fuck nut.
>>186479
This.';

'>>186119
They don't. Karate fighters do fine in kickboxing. Thais dominate muay Thai obviously but karate fighters actually consistently do better in MMA.

Even the "dutch kickboxing is muay Thai plus boxing!!" argument ignores that Kyokushin was if anything a bigger influence, especially with punching into kicks.

But a lot of guys from Kyokushin are thought of as kickboxers instead of karateka because people inherently don't take karate seriously. Guys who just stay in karate are hobbyists mainly, because there's no money in it.';

'>>186872
They were they just weren't Thais. But there's always a no real Scotsman thing going on with Thaiaboos. I have people who tell me Buakaw was a mediocre Thai who went over and destroyed kickboxing when he was P4P ranked in Muay Thai before he left and he went 1-1 with Masato (no one ever talks about the second fight).

Tenshin (incidentally a Kyokushin product) beat Rodtang and people never talk about that or call it a robbery. But a post-prime Takeru who got a last minute opponent change loses to Superbon and suddenly it's Thai season again, after a year of Thais getting their boxing exposed in ONE.';

'>>189596
Overly zealous Muay Thai fanboys are the worst martial arts dickriders online. Worse than BJJ guys who are tempered by open competition in MMA. If a Thai wins in kickboxing proof Muay Thai is the best striking in the world. If they lose its because they didn't have their hecking elbow strikes lmao.';

'>>189319
>Karate is just one of the modules of a Bushi
Wrong and cringe';

'>>189828
I love muay thai but ive seen dutch k1 guys absolutely mop the floor with them.';

'>>189319
Imagine writing all of this, proof-reading it, solving the Captcha and STILL hitting "Post"';

'>>189828
It's absolutely irritating. Especially since they're also the people most likely to openly hate on MMA.

But the worst trend by far beyond any of that is kickboxers going into MMA and getting protected like Cyril Gane and Alex Pereira.';

'>>186132
I thought KK was the strongest karate style, tho?
since they use the hardest makiwaras and sparring rules
Is Shotokan, or Okinawan, a better karate style? TI and Gojo Ryu are the ancestor arts of karate itself.
>>189828
>>189596
real thai is Muay Boran, which also does grappling, and is taught to actual active military members.
I know some mcdojos claim muay boran, but its real. Just not widely available to civilians.';

'>>190471
Ancestral martial arts are a meme. Sure, there are older forms of the stuff practiced today, but the reason they were left to the side in favor of newer variations is because the new stuff simply works better.

There are going to be differences born from the martial art going from combat to sport, but that doesn't mean it's a deterioration. Most times it simply meant that changing to social and technological conditions introduce changes that allow the practioners to actually train the stuff that matters the most with real intensity.

A good Jap Kickboxer will probably defeat a good Kyo fighter, and that same good Kyo guy will likely beat the shit out of a good Gojū-Ryu karateka. Each time a martial art branchea into a spin-off that's willing to adapt and evolve, adopting new ideas and technologies, that spin-off will almost always end up being able to produce stronger fighters than the martial art it came from.

Shit that claims to be "ancient" or "battle-field" oriented, specially combatives like muay boran, pankration, pentjak silat, etc., is more often than not an antiquated meme that (isn't actually that old and is just a modern reconstruction of something that used to exist and) doesn't hold up to the modern combat sports variations they gave birth to.';

'Conditioning.

Muay Thai fighters are conditioned as fuck. Possibly more so than any other martial art/combat sport with the exception of Lethwei or maybe some MMA.

To be a competent fighter you need first and foremost conditioning. Technique, tactics, and strategy are essential obviously, but if you have just conditioned your shins to feel almost no pain when smashing against other shins or your neck/chin to take a punch then you're going to have a massive advantage against someone who hasn't done that.


You watch 80s Karate/kickboxing/whatever vs Muay Thai fights and you can see the karate/kickboxer shins and legs just get too painful for them and they start to slow down, get distracted by the pain and lose.


Conditioning is the most important base for any kind of fighting.';

'>>190825
>To be a competent fighter you need first and foremost conditioning.

Kyokushin's issue is not a lack of conditioning. The 80s karate guys who are getting slowed down by leg kicks are not from Kyokushin, they're usually from American kickboxing.';

'>>190480
>A good Jap Kickboxer will probably defeat a good Kyo fighter
Yuki Yoza (he of the dick kick KO today lol) is a very good Japanese kickboxer specifically because he is a Kyokushin man...';

'So many Bullshido retards here just talking shit out of their ass. Anyone here actually follow the sport?

Watch kickboxing in One Championship, karate can be just as effective. Also see Wonderboy.

Anyway here's Karate vs MT, really just comes down to the skill of the guy in the ring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwIs3CL6rf8';

'Tbh dutch kickboxing is the most fun to train with best carry over to MMA. It's based of kyokushin anyways. The slightly more bladed stance, hands focused adn 45 degree kicks are good carry over.';

'>>190858
>>190910
By simple virtue of trainjng and fighting in kickboxing they already evolved past Kyokushin. It was their base, NOT what they limited themselves to by sticking to Kyo comps and not adopting available inovations to the sport.

>>190911
Enjoy getting a concussion from training I guess. Ducth style training is fine (if you plan to fight in kickboxing matches) here and there, but as your bread and butter it will limit how much you van actually learn and for how long you'll be able to train.';

'>>190912
I don't hard spar like the dutch do and neither does anyone. It was an old school of thought to match the experience the thais have of doing fights at a young age. And for your bread and butter it will probably expand how much you will learn since it has more carry over to mma.';