'>>27636590
They don't want to anymore. It's not that they can't.';

'>>27636602
These were far from reliable. They were "German reliable" as long as you kept shit like the carbs and the valves perfectly adjusted. So really they're not far from a modern German car. Modern German cars are "reliable" if you take them back to the dealership for service every 2 weeks.';

'Most German car vehicle owners only keep the car for like 4 years or less so what's the point?';

'>>27636590
Too much autism';

'>>27636590
Divine Solutions';

'German made diesels are reliable.';

'>>27637040
I thought leasefagging was an American thing';

'>>27637121
kid who went to my high school had a 2003 golf TDI with 800k km on it

Probably has a million by now';

'>>27636590
but /o/ told me that modern BMWs are reliable';

'>>27637125
You keep a car for 100,000 miles at max and then scrap it. Even in the poorest European countries that's what they do. I know a variety of European immigrants and temporary workers and they all think it's weird that so many of the cars on the road here are so "old"';

'>>27636609
precisely, 'reliable', not 'forgiving'';

'>>27636602
I thought classic VW Beetles require frequent tinkering, but maintenance and repairs are super easy?';

'>buy second hand 2017 G30
>never had a single problem
the end';

'>>27636590
Japanese (and korean) makers HAVE to make reliable cars because globally (even in their own countries) their brands are relatively new (2nd half of the 20th century), and the products themselves are seen as soulless appliances by the avg consumer. This is a global phenomenon mind you, even in their own local markets. This is probably because the industrialization of asia happened late (japan after ww2, korea after the korean war) and the main export at first were cheap appliances. Western consumers were first exposed to "made in japan" and "made in korea" products when all they did was cheap electronics, and that is the image that stuck.
So they are in a way forced to make "high quality" (i.e. reliable) products to be competitive, because the average consumer evaluates these products mainly on concrete rational metrics (reliability, mileage, etc) rather than on emotional intangible (brand, image) metrics.

In contrast, luxury (and some non-lux) european makers have TONS of brand value, because they were early into industrialization (late 19th century in some cases) and therefore early in car making. They were making desirable road cars before most asian makers were making motorbikes, let alone cars. Because of this, these brands are highly rated by the general public, regardless of the *actual quality* of their current product line. With the way warranty programs work, plus contemporary buying habits (people don't buy a new car expecting to own it for more than 5 years) reliability is almost a non-issue for new car buyers of these brands. They are experts at making previous-generation cars look old and making sure that they spend just enough so that the cars are usable during their warranty period, and then reliability that falls off a cliff. Optimizing lifetime expectancy (aka planned obsolescence) = optimizing manufacturing costs.

Asian brands *could* technically do this too, but the market wouldn't take it.';

'>>27637126
>2003 golf TDI
The one with the 1.8 TDI? That was a pretty robust engine, from what I understand.
That wasn't a bad time to buy Audi or VW. Good engines, not too much electronic crap that could fail, and they had way better galvanization than some rust bucket brands.
It was right after those when the complexity and plastic started going out of control (and they still couldn't meet emissions targets, leading to that infamous cheat software).';

'>>27636590
Fuel prices and emissions regulations prevent them from doing things like they did in the past. Also, cars are getting heavier every year, and they need more power. So they have no choice but to make turbocharged direct injection engines with lighter pistons and crankshaft. Just let German engineers create things freely, and they will put V12 with 2JZ reliability in every car.';

'>>27636590
Their car industry from 70's onwad functions on the same model as Burger healthcare.
You don't buy cars on your own, they are a perk of wagieing.
Their cars have to be expensive and short lived for this system to work.
>>27636602
>>27636609
Reliability and longevity are two different things. German cars are reliable for that first 5 year period, they don't care what happens to them later when they get sold to a Turk, Serb, or Albanian.
Slug bugs were not reliable, I had one, and I also had a van. It was constant dicking around to keep them running. The van kept overheating if there were hills around, don't even think about putting shit in it.
However they have good longevity, because you could dick around and get them running again for cheap.
>>27637040
Yup, because wagie has to consoome new product in 4 years when they are elegible for another "subsidy". Maybe i f you wagied hard enough you get a A3 instead of a golf this time.
>>27637698
Bullshit. German regulations are set by their industry, To sell more product to other corporations so they can reward wagie with it. It's all by design.';

'>>27637674
So European automobiles are shitheaps because they can't give a shit about doing better?
Seems to describe a number of things about them, actually';

'>>27636590
The german cars I drove so far have been

320d 310k km
A4 1.9tdi 340k km
E39 525tds 397k km
E60 530i 470k km
E39 530d 602k km
E65 730d 870k km
E53 X5 3.0d 912k km';

'>>27636590
Because the German government and the US government push out retarded rules and regulations that force manufacturers to make dumb decisions like making ECU harnesses out of biodegradable materials or using shitty plastics.
Also fuel emission requirements have completely ruined diesels and will make highly reliable NA engines completely die out in favor of complicated turbo engines.';

'>>27637674
Makes sense. Kinda like no one gave Jaguar shit for having terrible electrics.';

'>>27637674
How do you explain American cars that sell despite being shit in both reputation and quality?';

'VW cars are plenty reliable, you just have to get them serviced by a professional. They aren't designed for driveway oil changes. BMWs and Mercedes are fucking trash heaps though lol.';

'>>27637624
G30
>not 3 series

yikes';

'>>27638522
>So European automobiles are shitheaps because they can't give a shit about doing better?
That's basically my theory, yeah. For us (car folk) it may sound like they're not doing their best, but if I take off my car-nerd hat off, and put on my corporate-targets hat on, they're doing great. They've managed to figure out the value of their brand image (what customers will and won't put up with, how long they own their new cars on average, etc), and they're optimizing their engineering targets to maximize profit, which is what companies are meant to do.

Asian makers do the same, they're just optimizing for a different set of metrics.

>>27638782
I think American brands are a whole different phenomenon.

Unlike Europe, America is a huge *single-country* market, so patriotism is an important factor that doesn't manifest itself in other places. America has been in (and won) wars against Japan and a bunch of European countries, so it's only natural to prop up the image of local brands by framing things in an "Us vs Them" perspective.

If you're an American buying an American product, you're not just supporting a faceless American corporate entity, you're also supporting the families of those Americans who work at the factory, whose young kids bravely went out there into the world to fight for our freedom. And if it ever breaks down, you can take it to Billy's shop, an Iraq veteran who almost got blown up fighting for your freedom. It's a narrative that makes a lot of sense, and is impossible to replicate in Europe (a bunch of rival countries).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnClLZbNh6I

The best selling American vehicles are by far trucks, most of which are sold in deeply patriotic places in the states. Protectionist policies (chicken tax) further incentivize the patriotic issue. Things have been changing lately: more American brands making trucks abroad, foreign brands being made in the US, etc., but the momentum of that patriotic image is strong.';

'>>27637674
>They are experts at making previous-generation cars look old
Those are Americans, Germans are notorious for trying to achieve a certain timelessness';

'>>27639851
>If you're an American buying an American product, you're not just supporting a faceless American corporate entity, you're also supporting the families of those Americans who work at the factory, whose young kids bravely went out there into the world to fight for our freedom. And if it ever breaks down, you can take it to Billy's shop, an Iraq veteran who almost got blown up fighting for your freedom. It's a narrative that makes a lot of sense, and is impossible to replicate in Europe (a bunch of rival countries).
Rockstar Games greatly satirized this in one of their commercials in GTA Vice City, kek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CSaN8CEu-Q';

'>>27639359
BMWs are weird. Some of their models are among the least-towed cars in Germany, and aren't really that expensive to maintain, either. And then some of them seem doomed to turn into money pits.
VAG cars generally do ok, but aren't quite the best. If you take them to a professional who knows all the little gremlins, places where the plastic can start cracking, etc., they probably won't fail without warning. Probably.
Oddly enough, Toyota has been among the worst in the ADAC reliability statistics, but only because of a single failure mode: The cheapass stock starter battery they use in their EU models. Doesn't matter if the hybrid battery lasts 15 years when the 12 V turkshit lead-acid randomly dies with no warning signs.';

'>>27638682
Yeah, Land Rover sales still grow.';

'>>27639861
But they aren't
Even five year old Mercs and VAG models tend to look old in person. Was not an issue with previous BMWs but current abominations I'm not sure of.';

'>>27637491
Any car from the 50s required constant tinkering.';

'>>27636590
The bread and butter ones are the reliable ones. The high-end ones are not quite reliable.
The ones with diesel are very reliable, even more than Toyota ones in some metrics.';

'The problem are the stupid 20-30k km service intervals. Even German cars last for a very long time with minimal problems if you change the oils every 10-15k.';

'>>27636590
>Why can't Germans make reliable cars?
Gypsies buy a BMW with 500k km then drive it for another 500k with no maintenance whatsoever.';

'>>27639971
Are you familiar with the concept named the ship of Theseus?';

'>>27639979
No, not really.';

'>>27639985
If you replace a lot of parts in your BMW with parts taken from other BMWs, will it be the same BMW you bought from Akhmed?';

'>>27639453
3 series are for poorfags';